Trump

[Vertigo 7]

If Jordan is sensible he'll keep his mouth shut. The ranking Republican, counsel for the Republicans and Turley are putting up a much more impressive effort than any of the Republicans did in the Intelligence Committee hearings.

Yeah, I agree. He has me pretty well convinced they need to slow down and make sure they get this right. Impeachment still must go forward, but I do want them to prove their case. Furthermore, I agree with Turley that the courts need to settle the issue of subpoenas.

[Vertigo 7]

Ehh, okay I've changed my mind. Impeach for obstruction!

[felter]

What made you change your mind and why suddenly for obstruction, especially seeing as he has been doing that since moving into the Whitehouse.

[RegisterMe]

I know the question was directed at me but, more broadly.... eh, I think Trump is bang to rights. At the same time I have some sympathy for one of the Republican positions that basically runs along the lines of "hey but we weren't allowed to call our witnesses".

I'd actually like to hear from them too.

But not if the White House prevents its staff (etc) from testifying either.

And I understand the Dem position, which is basically "why let them call people who are just going to throw already debunked mud in the air"?

[RegisterMe]

Just stumbled on this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu3Fum2ozwI

Not really sure how to classify it but it's interesting nonetheless. Former Deputy Director of the NSA talking about her interaction with Trump.

[Vertigo 7]

What made you change your mind and why suddenly for obstruction, especially seeing as he has been doing that since moving into the Whitehouse.

Well, I was initially swayed on slowing impeachment down because Turley made a good argument for allowing the courts to settle the issues of the subpoenas, knowing full well the courts will never say congress can't issue subpoenas to the executive branch. However, as the supreme court has ruled that congress is duly authorized to issue subpoenas to the executive branch in the past, I consider the issue settled. But also obstruction isn't the only article of impeachment that should be passed. However they want to word his abuse of office, be it bribery, extortion, or simply abuse of office, that too.

I mean, they have him dead to rights, no matter how you slice it. It's really an issue of convincing people. But in all fairness, that matters more for the trial than it does for the house vote, especially if the WH isn't going to participate in the house judiciary hearings. Everything the house is doing is an investigation, so Trump refusing the house is only adding more counts of obstruction. Let em hang himself.

I will point out that the democrats have shot themselves in the foot on a couple of issues. The few times they've spoken out for impeachment prior to the conclusion of the Muller Report isn't doing them any favors. It does give the appearance of prejudgement, but on the same coin, the republicans are just as guilty of that, not that it makes either one of them right. Also, they could allow Schiff to testify... throw the republicans a bone. It's not like Schiff can offer anything more than his arguments he's already made. If this report on what little interaction Schiff had with the whistle blower is accurate, then there's no issue in Schiff giving testimony that would hurt the democrats. If they have any opportunities to take the wind out of the sails of the Trumpanzies, they should capitalize on it, imo. Of course, if Schiff does testify, Trump is gonna accuse him of perjury. I dunno, seems like an easy win for democrats.

[RegisterMe]

Schiff "not testifying" could be a sublimely beautiful hook, couldn't it.

I'm absolutely not predicting this but posit a moment where Schiff / the Dems go.... "oh well, since you asked so nicely...", could be... entertaining.

Certainly, given what I've seen to date of the various hearings, he would know how to comport himself. I'd pay good money to see a Nunes and / or Jordan ring'a'ding v Schiff.

[RegisterMe]

Jump to 7:30ish but there's some interesting commentary about the timing of the whole thing:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3pxN091Ejc

[Tycow]

Trump impeachment to go ahead - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - BBC News

Can someone explain the significance of this?

Why would they come right out with it, essentially going around the Judicial hearings...? Do you think they've had new information, or some Republican senators have indicated they would support impeachment?

Curious.

[Vertigo 7]

No, I think it's more that she's telling everyone that she's moving forward with the impeachment amid some speculation that the house would move to censure Trump instead of impeaching. There's still hearings to come and the house will remain in session over the holiday break to have the articles of impeachment written and possibly voted on before congress is back in session after the break.

I don't think the house republicans are going to change their tune at all, and the WH is going to continue to obstruct so I don't know what more the house is going to be able to accomplish. I have a feeling that the judicial hearing yesterday was to get a sense from constitutional law experts where things currently stand should they move forward with what they have, if they had grounds to do so, rather, which it seems they do.

[Tycow]

Thanks for the explanation. Was trying to work out where it fitted into things but that makes it much clearer.

[Vertigo 7]

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a ... -pew-poll/

Pew research shows 43% of republicans want the president to operate without worrying about the courts or congress... almost half of republicans want us to be in a dictatorship... in a 2 party system, nearly half of one of those parties wants our democracy upended. I don't understand. wtf is wrong with these people?

[felter]

Looks like Trumps rhetoric on the Bidens and Ukraine have work, at least for this guy. If one person believes it, there are bound to be plenty of others who also believe it. A pretty crappy sound recording but that can't be helped. He did say he heard the acuusation on MSNBC, which I very much doubt, I reckon he watches/listens to FOX News.

[Masterbagger]

Trump impeachment to go ahead - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - BBC News

Can someone explain the significance of this?

Why would they come right out with it, essentially going around the Judicial hearings...? Do you think they've had new information, or some Republican senators have indicated they would support impeachment?

Curious.

Pelosi can't not allow the impeachment to go forward without looking weak at this point. The act of impeaching Trump is more important than the substance or the process that gets there. It is being railroaded full speed ahead because the dems have nothing to lose. It's 2020. They know they can't win unless they do something drastic to prevent democracy from happening again. Every bit of tradition and processes used in the past are getting thrown aside. Trump has broken them that badly.

[Vertigo 7]

Trump impeachment to go ahead - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi - BBC News

Can someone explain the significance of this?

Why would they come right out with it, essentially going around the Judicial hearings...? Do you think they've had new information, or some Republican senators have indicated they would support impeachment?

Curious.

Pelosi has no choice. The act of impeaching Trump is more important than allowing him to remain to cause further harm. It is being railroaded full speed ahead because the country has everything to lose if they don't. Trump has broken his oath of office that badly.

fixed for you.

[Vertigo 7]

Ya know, it's pretty sad that the best defense a Trumpanzie can muster is "Dems this, dems that" meanwhile, republicans and Trump cronies are being arrested left and right. It's mind blowing how utterly disconnected from reality these imbeciles are.

[Vertigo 7]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspoli ... ar-BBXPX8b

It's sounding like the republican senators are going to be far more reserved than the house democrats when the impeachment is moved to the senate. It doesn't seem that the senate are going to concede to the demands of the house republicans.

[Vertigo 7]

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/12/the-re ... ngressman/

As if we didn't need any more evidence at how depraved Trump and his followers have become, they're now engaging in voter suppression to keep any republican challenger from being on the primary ballot.

[RegisterMe]

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/ ... on_reddit/

(Yeah, it's UK based, but really it's Russian based)

[Vertigo 7]

https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/ ... on_reddit/

(Yeah, it's UK based, but really it's Russian based)

It's pretty evident Russia is trying it's damnedest to isolate the US from the rest of the world, and dumbass Trump has played right into their hands with his "America First" policies and swallowing conspiracy theories.

Between Trump being a laughing stock among enemies and allies alike and his utter failure at leadership, he has single handedly made the US an easy target for Russia. What a damn disgrace he is.