X4 needs a proper outlaw faction(s)

[EmperorDragon]

I am more of an empire building player and I did not always understand the complaints about the game being too boring with no threats to the player, probably because I was too busy building an empire and warring with the Paranid. Recently though, I tried out a more lone wolf mercenary/freelancer playstyle, and indeed, the game gets pretty boring quite fast.

The problem is that the game is limited to one single hostile faction with a meaningful presence, the Xenon, which is a different type of sentient AI faction and mostly limited to the corners of the universe anyway. The Khaak is just fodder, as they were in X3, HAT is a legal faction and it has been confirmed that the placeholder SCA is to be left as-is. What the game really needs is a traditional outlaw faction to provide an ambient threat to the roaming player, as was/is the case with previous X games and pretty much every other space game in existence.

The SCA is supposed to be X4's outlaw faction but, as mentioned above, their relations is to remain locked (something I complained about often) and reasons given by Egosoft doesn't make any sense. I believe the real reason for the locked relations is because changes in relations causes issues with the ID masking system, as experienced when unlocking relations via savegame editing. Since there is no plans to fix up/flesh out the SCA, we can just as well write them off and disregard them as an outlaw faction.

X Rebirth was pretty cool in that every region had it's own outlaw faction but, I can understand that X4's universe is too small for this. But why did Egosoft do away with outlaw factions altogether? Did people complain that X3 and Rebirth was too difficult and threatening? Or is that how Egosoft interpreted things? I for one loved the pirate sectors of X3, often found myself going on anti-piracy campaigns even in the late game. The unclaimed sectors of X4 is much alike the pirate sectors of X3, only with no outlaw faction inhabiting them. Clear out your cargo bay and X4's unclaimed sectors becomes the safest, most peaceful sectors in the universe.

Would it not make things more interesting if a proper outlaw faction is added? Maybe more than one outlaw faction? I think the Hewa's Twin sectors, for example, would really bring back the appeal of X3's pirate sectors if they were inhabited by a proper, dangerous outlaw faction instead of the pacifist SCA. Pirate playstyles would also have more meaning if players actually had an outlaw faction they can join and build relations with.

[spankahontis]

I'd personally like to see procedurally generated Pirate Factions with their own name and Logo and their own Representitive with the capability of growing into much larger threat if left alone to spawn in the game.
Maybe a cap of 4-5 Factions that can do this?

They would appear as a group of around 30 Pirate fighters with a Pirate Base somewhere in the middle of nowhere to avoid detection with the intention of expansion into a larger faction with Miners, Traders and Destroyers with several Pirate Bases forcing you to either join them and help them grow into the most dominant Pirate Faction or destroy them as they will start attacking your convoys and stealing your produce.
Maybe even protection money? Tributes? to them to keep them off your back and leave your ships alone?

There is so much fun to be had for a Pirate playthrough if you could roleplay with a small Pirate/Mafia Family and help it grow into a powerhouse, or even Special Missions where you can take the Dons throne and rule the Pirate Faction yourself by proxy.

[Warnoise]

Yep welcome 2019 where placeholder is considered part of the finished game

[radcapricorn]

X3, 20 hours into a game: a Pirate Carrack with escorts emerging from a gate. Run the hell away!
X4, 5 hours into a game: Behemoths with no escorts pestering locals? Pfeh, profits! And no pirate stations or ships would even go red.

Progress!

[Artean]

Agree. Currently, it is a bit too much on the easy and friendly side.

[Berserk Knight]

3.0 beta has entries for several new factions. At least 3 of them are non-DLC as far as I can tell, and one of them definitely has pirate origins.

In the scripts, there's also a list of pirate factions that pirates and smugglers won't go undercover as, which is logical since Smuggler A posing as Pirate B would still be shot on sight since the cover faction is also a pirate, making the whole point of going undercover moot.

None of them have actual objects in the game (except for one busted up station ruin for one certain faction), so it may take a while for them to be fleshed out.

[mr.WHO]

We need more raider variants for pirates.
Single Minotaur Raider is a joke.

I'd love to see some upgunned pirate freighters - they would be ideal for piracy - you have firepower to terrorize civilians and cargo hold to grab loot.

[Sandalpocalypse]

There's no pirate space between factions so its not like theres anywhere for an outlaw faction to live...

[Adalphage]

I'd personally like to see procedurally generated Pirate Factions with their own name and Logo and their own Representitive with the capability of growing into much larger threat if left alone to spawn in the game.
Maybe a cap of 4-5 Factions that can do this?

They would appear as a group of around 30 Pirate fighters with a Pirate Base somewhere in the middle of nowhere to avoid detection with the intention of expansion into a larger faction with Miners, Traders and Destroyers with several Pirate Bases forcing you to either join them and help them grow into the most dominant Pirate Faction or destroy them as they will start attacking your convoys and stealing your produce.
Maybe even protection money? Tributes? to them to keep them off your back and leave your ships alone?

There is so much fun to be had for a Pirate playthrough if you could roleplay with a small Pirate/Mafia Family and help it grow into a powerhouse, or even Special Missions where you can take the Dons throne and rule the Pirate Faction yourself by proxy.

I really like this idea. It reminds me of a feature that was in Port Royale 2, and it would add some emotion and things to do (hunt pirates and search for their base). I also would enjoy being able to play the other side of the coin and be a pirate on my own, because the way that is implemented now forces you to go to a war against a faction or trade-then-pirate them.

[Sandalpocalypse]

There's a game called void destroyer 2 that has an interesting take on piracy; piracy is a matter of getting people to drop their cargo, and they wont always do it. You have what is essentially a ruthlessness rating, where if someone refuses to drop their cargo and you don't blow them up everyone thinks you're chickenshit and people are less likely to drop cargo in the future. Of course, if you do enforce your demands with murder then the reputation and police response problems can be pretty severe, and its not like you get much for doing it.

[Tomonor]

I've always imagined X universe pirates the way they were portrayed in the X3 games - giant ships owned by individual pirate clans roaming the universe freely in hopes for plunderable assets and swag. They would steal ships, pester cargo ships, kidnap citizens and trade them on the slave market, capture spaceflies and sell them to the Split, blow up strategically important objects for competing factions, do station hack operations where the station would dump all its content into space XR style. But most importantly, they would use these beat up raider ship variants. Plus they could get some unique ships too, like the good old Orinocco.

[sh1pman]

I've always imagined X universe pirates the way they were portrayed in the X3 games - giant ships owned by individual pirate clans roaming the universe freely in hopes for plunderable assets and swag. They would steal ships, pester cargo ships, kidnap citizens and trade them on the slave market, capture spaceflies and sell them to the Split, blow up strategically important objects for competing factions, do station hack operations where the station would dump all its content into space XR style. But most importantly, they would use these beat up raider ship variants. Plus they could get some unique ships too, like the good old Orinocco.

I’d love to see the Bayamon back, with its 4 PACs, arranged in a badS-looking cross, my favorite M4.

Might have some issues with new docking system, though...

[Axeface]

I think adding new 'Factionless/Independant' ship spawns (that do a bit of absolutely everything, including smuggling/piracy) and then unlocking SCA would work. Player who attack SCA would make an enemy of them and see a lot more red guys on the map (or the opposite, player could join them), and at the same time traditional pirates and smugglers would still be there.

Basically we need Malcom Reynolds' in X4. He would NOT be Argon, HAT, SCA or anything in between - he works for himself and he has a ship.

[spankahontis]

I think adding new 'Factionless/Independant' ship spawns (that do a bit of absolutely everything, including smuggling/piracy) and then unlocking SCA would work. Player who attack SCA would make an enemy of them and see a lot more red guys on the map (or the opposite, player could join them), and at the same time traditional pirates and smugglers would still be there.

Basically we need Malcom Reynolds' in X4. He would NOT be Argon, HAT, SCA or anything in between - he works for himself and he has a ship.

I'd like to see an independant NPC suddenly start his own Pirate faction. Criminal Families throughout History have always fought against each other, no unified Pirate Faction.
But doesn't mean some work together in order to stop a Pirate Clan more powerful than the both of them?

It feels like your Player seems to be the only one with ambition to build an empire? Maybe there needs to be other Random Factions/NPCs that want to start their own Corporation or Pirate Clan that you can compete against?
The other Lore Factions are always there (Argon Fed, HOP, Teladi Company etc.), but it needs some random Factions that are lore friendly but offer a sense of randomness as well. Never the same Factions after every new playthrough unless they are cannon factions they're always the same.

They could even make every random generated Faction follow their own pattern of behaviour, you have honest business men, ruthless capitalists imagine a Faction that is constantly sending agents to Hack your Stations?
The New Diplomacy Feature could give you amazing oppertuinities to Parlay with agressive factions or make alliances against these more agressive NPCs?

[Imperial Good]

Leaked data from the 3.00 beta shows Duke from X3 may be making a return in a future patch or DLC. Hopefully these pirates, outlaws and scum will live up to your desires, assuming they make the final cut.

[Oneill_420]

I think maybe you're supposed to be able to play the part of the outlaw faction. You have a fence to sell illegal goods in the SCA, the ability to build your own shipyards and to force your own conflicts. It would be nice to have a pirate based ally though that had higher end illegal ship mods that could get you in trouble in certain faction's sectors if you installed them.

[Oneill_420]

I think adding new 'Factionless/Independant' ship spawns (that do a bit of absolutely everything, including smuggling/piracy) and then unlocking SCA would work. Player who attack SCA would make an enemy of them and see a lot more red guys on the map (or the opposite, player could join them), and at the same time traditional pirates and smugglers would still be there.

Basically we need Malcom Reynolds' in X4. He would NOT be Argon, HAT, SCA or anything in between - he works for himself and he has a ship.

I'd like to see an independant NPC suddenly start his own Pirate faction. Criminal Families throughout History have always fought against each other, no unified Pirate Faction.
But doesn't mean some work together in order to stop a Pirate Clan more powerful than the both of them?

It feels like your Player seems to be the only one with ambition to build an empire? Maybe there needs to be other Random Factions/NPCs that want to start their own Corporation or Pirate Clan that you can compete against?
The other Lore Factions are always there (Argon Fed, HOP, Teladi Company etc.), but it needs some random Factions that are lore friendly but offer a sense of randomness as well. Never the same Factions after every new playthrough unless they are cannon factions they're always the same.

They could even make every random generated Faction follow their own pattern of behaviour, you have honest business men, ruthless capitalists imagine a Faction that is constantly sending agents to Hack your Stations?
The New Diplomacy Feature could give you amazing oppertuinities to Parlay with agressive factions or make alliances against these more agressive NPCs?

I'd love this!!!!

If there was a way to assign NPC's some sort of earnings that could be built up from piloting faction ships or time spent employed by a station once they reached a certain level of wealth they could start randomly buying ships and building prefab small stations around whatever. Maybe to limit a horde of station builders a dice roll could be made on world creation only allowing a few dozen NPCs to even earn credits. Like station managers, or only mining ship captains or something. Make the earnings between each NPC vary greatly so everyone wasn't earning all at the same rate, then when they reach their goal they call up a transport and head out; next crewman takes their place automatically. These small factions could be named through some sort of RNG that'll draw from a list when the NPC leaves their job to start their life as an empire builder.

[Warnoise]

I think adding new 'Factionless/Independant' ship spawns (that do a bit of absolutely everything, including smuggling/piracy) and then unlocking SCA would work. Player who attack SCA would make an enemy of them and see a lot more red guys on the map (or the opposite, player could join them), and at the same time traditional pirates and smugglers would still be there.

Basically we need Malcom Reynolds' in X4. He would NOT be Argon, HAT, SCA or anything in between - he works for himself and he has a ship.

I'd like to see an independant NPC suddenly start his own Pirate faction. Criminal Families throughout History have always fought against each other, no unified Pirate Faction.
But doesn't mean some work together in order to stop a Pirate Clan more powerful than the both of them?

It feels like your Player seems to be the only one with ambition to build an empire? Maybe there needs to be other Random Factions/NPCs that want to start their own Corporation or Pirate Clan that you can compete against?
The other Lore Factions are always there (Argon Fed, HOP, Teladi Company etc.), but it needs some random Factions that are lore friendly but offer a sense of randomness as well. Never the same Factions after every new playthrough unless they are cannon factions they're always the same.

They could even make every random generated Faction follow their own pattern of behaviour, you have honest business men, ruthless capitalists imagine a Faction that is constantly sending agents to Hack your Stations?
The New Diplomacy Feature could give you amazing oppertuinities to Parlay with agressive factions or make alliances against these more agressive NPCs?

I'd love this!!!!

If there was a way to assign NPC's some sort of earnings that could be built up from piloting faction ships or time spent employed by a station once they reached a certain level of wealth they could start randomly buying ships and building prefab small stations around whatever. Maybe to limit a horde of station builders a dice roll could be made on world creation only allowing a few dozen NPCs to even earn credits. Like station managers, or only mining ship captains or something. Make the earnings between each NPC vary greatly so everyone wasn't earning all at the same rate, then when they reach their goal they call up a transport and head out; next crewman takes their place automatically. These small factions could be named through some sort of RNG that'll draw from a list when the NPC leaves their job to start their life as an empire builder.

That sounds good but that requires new AIs and stuff. Currently they can barely keep the current AI working so I dont think Egosoft will do that anytime soon. Hopefully major modders will work together and do this.

[Oneill_420]

I'd like to see an independant NPC suddenly start his own Pirate faction. Criminal Families throughout History have always fought against each other, no unified Pirate Faction.
But doesn't mean some work together in order to stop a Pirate Clan more powerful than the both of them?

It feels like your Player seems to be the only one with ambition to build an empire? Maybe there needs to be other Random Factions/NPCs that want to start their own Corporation or Pirate Clan that you can compete against?
The other Lore Factions are always there (Argon Fed, HOP, Teladi Company etc.), but it needs some random Factions that are lore friendly but offer a sense of randomness as well. Never the same Factions after every new playthrough unless they are cannon factions they're always the same.

They could even make every random generated Faction follow their own pattern of behaviour, you have honest business men, ruthless capitalists imagine a Faction that is constantly sending agents to Hack your Stations?
The New Diplomacy Feature could give you amazing oppertuinities to Parlay with agressive factions or make alliances against these more agressive NPCs?

I'd love this!!!!

If there was a way to assign NPC's some sort of earnings that could be built up from piloting faction ships or time spent employed by a station once they reached a certain level of wealth they could start randomly buying ships and building prefab small stations around whatever. Maybe to limit a horde of station builders a dice roll could be made on world creation only allowing a few dozen NPCs to even earn credits. Like station managers, or only mining ship captains or something. Make the earnings between each NPC vary greatly so everyone wasn't earning all at the same rate, then when they reach their goal they call up a transport and head out; next crewman takes their place automatically. These small factions could be named through some sort of RNG that'll draw from a list when the NPC leaves their job to start their life as an empire builder.

That sounds good but that requires new AIs and stuff. Currently they can barely keep the current AI working so I dont think Egosoft will do that anytime soon. Hopefully major modders will work together and do this.

fingers crossed one sees and takes interest. I love modders. They really flesh out just about any game

[waynetarlton]

I'd personally like to see procedurally generated Pirate Factions with their own name and Logo and their own Representitive with the capability of growing into much larger threat if left alone to spawn in the game.
Maybe a cap of 4-5 Factions that can do this?

They would appear as a group of around 30 Pirate fighters with a Pirate Base somewhere in the middle of nowhere to avoid detection with the intention of expansion into a larger faction with Miners, Traders and Destroyers with several Pirate Bases forcing you to either join them and help them grow into the most dominant Pirate Faction or destroy them as they will start attacking your convoys and stealing your produce.
Maybe even protection money? Tributes? to them to keep them off your back and leave your ships alone?

There is so much fun to be had for a Pirate playthrough if you could roleplay with a small Pirate/Mafia Family and help it grow into a powerhouse, or even Special Missions where you can take the Dons throne and rule the Pirate Faction yourself by proxy.

Now this would be absolutely awesome.