Kinda dissapointed we still only have 3 minerals

[samoja]

Even though X4 added gasses as far as mining goes we still only have Ore, Siicon and Nividium as base resources, the same we had all the way back in X2 (or perhaps even X1, IDK), i was hoping with the new huge sectors there would be a little more complexity to the production, things like rare earths, gold, silver, diamonds. While things like copper, tin, lithium, cobalt, nickel etc can all be lumped into one as "ore" i would still like to see more diversity in what we can mine and use, it would give the game much more depth as finding a relatively large deposit of some less common mineral could feel like a payday big time, making any survey mission a lot more exciting. Hopefully the devs will look into redoing the raw materials at some point in the future. Also i would love to see more consumer goods that you would only produce to sell, stuff like luxury food, consumer electronics, pharmaceuticals, jewelry, clothing and the like, it would make the universe feel a lot more like living, breathing place instead of something purely there to service your needs and vice versa.

[mr.WHO]

In addition to 3 "solid minerals", we have "gas mineral" which weren't present in X2/X3.

There is no point in adding more base minerals.

[samoja]

In addition to 3 "solid minerals", we have "gas mineral" which weren't present in X2/X3.

There is no point in adding more base minerals.

There was no point in adding gas minerals either, people who speak about "points" are ironically missing the point, when we come down to it there is no point in playing the game whatsoever, you do it because you want to, the only question is whether or not adding more base materials would make it a better simulation and deeper game, and the answer is yes, unequivocally yes, that point can not reasonably be disputed.

[Falcrack]

I'm disappointed that of the three minerals you can mine (ore, silicon, and nividium (aka platinum)), nividium has absolutely no use in the economy. Seriously, they couldn't come up with a use for it? Why have it be mineable at all?

Edit: Forgot Ice. So there are 4 mineral, 1 of which is pointless.

[samoja]

I'm disappointed that of the three minerals you can mine (ore, silicon, and nividium (aka platinum)), nividium has absolutely no use in the economy. Seriously, they couldn't come up with a use for it? Why have it be mineable at all?

i can come up with one in a heartbeat, just look at it's actual application, mainly in electronics of all types but also as a catalyst(engines and stuff).

[graphicboy]

Maybe we can wait on this till our station miners are consistently able to mine more than one thing at a time.

[samoja]

Maybe we can wait on this till our station miners are consistently able to mine more than one thing at a time.

I said at some point in the future, i did not exactly specify the time frame.

At the very least i would like to see Ice make a return as resource from TC and AP, Ice would be incredibly important resource for space colonies not only as a source of water but also oxygen and in this case even Hydrogen that already exists in the game as a resource. Any kind of food production would constantly be consuming water requiring a steady supply that would be easiest to obtain from ice which is quite abundant in asteroids.

[Pesanur]

Maybe we can wait on this till our station miners are consistently able to mine more than one thing at a time.

I said at some point in the future, i did not exactly specify the time frame.

At the very least i would like to see Ice make a return as resource from TC and AP, Ice would be incredibly important resource for space colonies not only as a source of water but also oxygen and in this case even Hydrogen that already exists in the game as a resource. Any kind of food production would constantly be consuming water requiring a steady supply that would be easiest to obtain from ice which is quite abundant in asteroids.

Ice is already a resource in X4, and is needed for food production.

[graphicboy]

At the very least i would like to see Ice make a return as resource

Ah, I think I see your point now.

[Nort The Fragrent]

May I interject.

Perhaps we could have,

Weighteum, A mineral found in abundance as ES’s Headquarters.

Quietite, A substance that is prolific on the Update front.

Derrogatoreum, Again a forum derivative. This would sell well.

Rotateium, This is all ready found a lot in space. We have all seen it. Some have bumped into it.

I do agree on making the fundamental structure of material to manufactured goods more diverse. There was a whole heap of stuff to triad in previous games! And navidium was the jewel. Yet now is it effectively useless, and redundant.

By the way !

In the South Eastern quadrant of Grand Exchange I , (Way out ) there is a rather nice mineral formation surrounded by a yellow gas cloud. My Resource probe indicates Hydrogen @ 0.022/km3 (0.022). Now that is a good opportunity to add in a new substance!

Good job ES on that yellow cloud, and the embedded structure. We want more things like that .

If you haven't yet found it, go take a look. It’s approximately 730km’s out. South East, head to the centre of the straight sided boundary. It is pretty cool..
The cloud looks white like the rest to start, then turns yellow as you get inside.

Any one else found any thing interesting out and about?

ICE! there is ice! and we can mine it to make water!!!!!!

[MakerLinux]

I really don't understand the complaint about ice. We already have ice mining and it's melted to water in a specialized station module shaped like the human male reproductive organ, as etiquette dictates.

I think the more pressing problem is detachment of visuals (what you see in front of you, like gas clouds and rocks, or the colorings in maps) from "reality", that is, what we see do not correspond to what there is. We could be in a big space full of rotating rocks and click on them and see "Ore", "nividium" etc. but in reality there is nothing mineable there. And we could go to a completely void empty space and it can be full of resources ready to be mined, somehow.

[samoja]

Maybe we can wait on this till our station miners are consistently able to mine more than one thing at a time.

I said at some point in the future, i did not exactly specify the time frame.

At the very least i would like to see Ice make a return as resource from TC and AP, Ice would be incredibly important resource for space colonies not only as a source of water but also oxygen and in this case even Hydrogen that already exists in the game as a resource. Any kind of food production would constantly be consuming water requiring a steady supply that would be easiest to obtain from ice which is quite abundant in asteroids.

Ice is already a resource in X4, and is needed for food production.

Is it? I will admit that ATM i am mainly experiencing the game from videos and wikis, my system would melt if i tried running it, but i did not see any mention of ice or water anywhere.

[Solflame]

Wait... why are you complaining about what's in the game when you don't have first hand knowledge of what's in the game?

Ice has been in since launch, and is one of the most important tier-0 commodities as all food requires water, and water comes from ice refinement and purification.

Another thing to point out is one of the major issues Egosoft solved with X4 (at least in my opinion) was that there was always way too much crap in the economy that ended up slowing the simulation down because random element X was limited over here which made it so there was no quantum tubes in the universe, which made it so a million other things didn't get done. The simplified economy seems to work better, though I admit I haven't played much in the recent updates... last I played was... wow, December of last year? Christ. Life got busy. Anyways, my point is that with X4 they've been removing things from the economy, rather than adding them, and that seems to be making things better.

Would adding more base materials make it a better simulation and deeper game? Only if there were usages for those materials, which made intermediate products which had more usages... and we're back to the X3 economy which Egosoft specifically moved away from.

It could work, yes: Star Citizen is another game which is going for a similar model to what you're proposing. However, the economy is going to be pretty much run only by NPCs with the PCs having a minor impact, being able to take advantage of shortages and gluts in the market. Most independent traders in SC are probably going to be more like contract truckers, agreeing to take a haul from one place to another in exchange for payment. That's why having miners be able to find a variety of materials makes sense: the prices aren't going to wildly change even if you find a bunch of extremely rare material because the demand is still going to be so high. The only time you might see prices change massively in that game is if a planet is attacked, or there's an intense bout of fighting, both of which would change the prices for basic food and water or military supplies respectively.

In short: what you're saying works better with a market that has more inertia and demand sources, where things like planetary upkeep and needs are tracked, and more. Right now, with the way the game does things, I can't think of a real "resource sink", everything is used to the end product of a ship or a station and that's it. Again, haven't played since December, but that's what I mean.

[ei8htx]

ICE! there is ice! and we can mine it to make water!!!!!!

Just don't try to store it in a liquid storage container

[samoja]

Wait... why are you complaining about what's in the game when you don't have first hand knowledge of what's in the game?

Ice has been in since launch, and is one of the most important tier-0 commodities as all food requires water, and water comes from ice refinement and purification.

Another thing to point out is one of the major issues Egosoft solved with X4 (at least in my opinion) was that there was always way too much crap in the economy that ended up slowing the simulation down because random element X was limited over here which made it so there was no quantum tubes in the universe, which made it so a million other things didn't get done. The simplified economy seems to work better, though I admit I haven't played much in the recent updates... last I played was... wow, December of last year? Christ. Life got busy. Anyways, my point is that with X4 they've been removing things from the economy, rather than adding them, and that seems to be making things better.

Would adding more base materials make it a better simulation and deeper game? Only if there were usages for those materials, which made intermediate products which had more usages... and we're back to the X3 economy which Egosoft specifically moved away from.

It could work, yes: Star Citizen is another game which is going for a similar model to what you're proposing. However, the economy is going to be pretty much run only by NPCs with the PCs having a minor impact, being able to take advantage of shortages and gluts in the market. Most independent traders in SC are probably going to be more like contract truckers, agreeing to take a haul from one place to another in exchange for payment. That's why having miners be able to find a variety of materials makes sense: the prices aren't going to wildly change even if you find a bunch of extremely rare material because the demand is still going to be so high. The only time you might see prices change massively in that game is if a planet is attacked, or there's an intense bout of fighting, both of which would change the prices for basic food and water or military supplies respectively.

In short: what you're saying works better with a market that has more inertia and demand sources, where things like planetary upkeep and needs are tracked, and more. Right now, with the way the game does things, I can't think of a real "resource sink", everything is used to the end product of a ship or a station and that's it. Again, haven't played since December, but that's what I mean.

I expected this question, the simple answer is that, by the time i get to actually play the game it will all be done and shut case, ideas and suggestions need to be thrown out now, while the iron is hot, no point doing it in like two years when the Devs are likely already looking towards releasing the next title in line and pay no attention to what is happening with this game.

The main issue you brought up can be solved easily by introducing "lifter stations" this was one of my old ideas, basically this stations would be transit hubs between planets and space, not literally of course but the idea is if there is large excess of some resource some of it can be bled off to this lifter stations and basically removed from the economy, the same goes for stalling by way of critical resource shortages, have the lifter stations in the area introduce that resource into the economy and then have AI ships distribute it where it is needed, the system could monitor what resources are always overstocked and which ones are always in short supply and react accordingly, this way the game could self correct any issues with the economy before they cause a mass cascade, of course sometikmes there will be a pirate blockade that will stall thew system anyway but that's a good thing IMO, then the player can move in and make use of the situation, and the game can always send ships to clear up a blockade if it runs too long.

[MakerLinux]

I expected this question, the simple answer is that, by the time i get to actually play the game it will all be done and shut case, ideas and suggestions need to be thrown out now, while the iron is hot, no point doing it in like two years when the Devs are likely already looking towards releasing the next title in line and pay no attention to what is happening with this game.

Dude... No. Just don't. The amount of undue (and due) criticism Egosoft receives from actual, real players is enough. Either buy and play the game or don't try to "fix" it, there will be lots of assumptions and mistakes on which you base your complaints, like this very example we saw here with ice mining. You are making us all waste our time by "helping" someone who doesn't need help because he is not actually playing the game. You're trolling Egosoft and the players at the same time.

[samoja]

I expected this question, the simple answer is that, by the time i get to actually play the game it will all be done and shut case, ideas and suggestions need to be thrown out now, while the iron is hot, no point doing it in like two years when the Devs are likely already looking towards releasing the next title in line and pay no attention to what is happening with this game.

Dude... No. Just don't. The amount of undue (and due) criticism Egosoft receives from actual, real players is enough. Either buy and play the game or don't try to "fix" it, there will be lots of assumptions and mistakes on which you base your complaints, like this very example we saw here with ice mining. You are making us all waste our time by "helping" someone who doesn't need help because he is not actually playing the game. You're trolling Egosoft and the players at the same time.

So you are saying only people who buy the game have right to have opinions on it? Also you are mixing criticism and feedback, as for helping, nobody is helping anybody, we are discussing the idea, if you don't want to discuss the idea kindly let yourself out, nobody will miss your opinion, especially when you are not providing anything constructive. This is something that was bothering me since X2, which i did play, and X3 which i also did play, extensively, i was hoping it would be expanded in this version, which it was not, at least not noticeably, so i am commenting on it, you don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to participate, not like this forum is seeing an insane amount of traffic anyway, you are just being a prima donna and getting your panties all up in a bunch over a non issue.

[MakerLinux]

So you are saying only people who buy the game have right to have opinions on it?

It's not a "rights" issue.
I am saying only people who buy and play the game deserve help and consideration on their opinions... They would be at least trying.
Anyway, I will not waste my time anymore on this thread. Have it your way.

[samoja]

So you are saying only people who buy the game have right to have opinions on it?

It's not a "rights" issue.
I am saying only people who buy and play the game deserve help and consideration on their opinions... They would be at least trying.
Anyway, I will not waste my time anymore on this thread. Have it your way.

So you are gate keeping, fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but unluckily for you you are not the arbiter on who has right to talk and who does not.

[Techedge]

Even though X4 added gasses as far as mining goes we still only have Ore, Siicon and Nividium as base resources, the same we had all the way back in X2 (or perhaps even X1, IDK), i was hoping with the new huge sectors there would be a little more complexity to the production, things like rare earths, gold, silver, diamonds. While things like copper, tin, lithium, cobalt, nickel etc can all be lumped into one as "ore" i would still like to see more diversity in what we can mine and use, it would give the game much more depth as finding a relatively large deposit of some less common mineral could feel like a payday big time, making any survey mission a lot more exciting. Hopefully the devs will look into redoing the raw materials at some point in the future. Also i would love to see more consumer goods that you would only produce to sell, stuff like luxury food, consumer electronics, pharmaceuticals, jewelry, clothing and the like, it would make the universe feel a lot more like living, breathing place instead of something purely there to service your needs and vice versa.

1-You can already mine crystals for big payday times. Maybe if you had played the game you would know.
2-Survey missions shouldn't be the focus of an X-game at all. And that should be a base assumption of every X-player...
3-Adding more minerals for the purpose (and the way) you propose would just add up many more goods for the sake of nothing. You don't really need more money from middle game on, nor you need more goods to crap up the economy even more.

I expected this question, the simple answer is that, by the time i get to actually play the game it will all be done and shut case, ideas and suggestions need to be thrown out now, while the iron is hot, no point doing it in like two years when the Devs are likely already looking towards releasing the next title in line and pay no attention to what is happening with this game.

The main issue you brought up can be solved easily by introducing "lifter stations" this was one of my old ideas, basically this stations would be transit hubs between planets and space, not literally of course but the idea is if there is large excess of some resource some of it can be bled off to this lifter stations and basically removed from the economy, the same goes for stalling by way of critical resource shortages, have the lifter stations in the area introduce that resource into the economy and then have AI ships distribute it where it is needed, the system could monitor what resources are always overstocked and which ones are always in short supply and react accordingly, this way the game could self correct any issues with the economy before they cause a mass cascade, of course sometikmes there will be a pirate blockade that will stall thew system anyway but that's a good thing IMO, then the player can move in and make use of the situation, and the game can always send ships to clear up a blockade if it runs too long.

The same old heated up soup. We have discussed this millions of times and the conclusion is always the same: it's pretty useless, since it doesn't really add anything to the game, except just another "big" station…

So you are saying only people who buy the game have right to have opinions on it? Also you are mixing criticism and feedback, as for helping, nobody is helping anybody, we are discussing the idea, if you don't want to discuss the idea kindly let yourself out, nobody will miss your opinion, especially when you are not providing anything constructive. This is something that was bothering me since X2, which i did play, and X3 which i also did play, extensively, i was hoping it would be expanded in this version, which it was not, at least not noticeably, so i am commenting on it, you don't like it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to participate, not like this forum is seeing an insane amount of traffic anyway, you are just being a prima donna and getting your panties all up in a bunch over a non issue.

Yeah, you're right. And that's why I won't even buy the game, but I'd like developers to add in X-wings and may be even the Enterprise, just for me getting fun when I'm zapping through YouTube videos...