So I bought Elite: Dangerous

[SpocksBrain]

My roomy has X4, so I bought Elite: Dangerous. Thirty bucks. Small change.
Also the game has a serious following and is like thirty years old.

Anyway, we played ED for a while and then sat down and talked it over. I
prefer X4. But there are good points and points for each game.

1/
X4 has much better graphics and ships. The ships in ED look like they
were designed by a child.

2/
Now that I modded X4, the ship buying process is much better. I can
buy ten miners and leave the game running overnight. Then in the morning
I have like 100,000,000 credits and am like level 15-20 in several factions.

3/
I like how you can leave the ship in X4 and walk around (not that there
is much to do in basically abandoned stations) I felt like the bubble
boy in ED. Never leaving the dashboard?

4/
ED was much more complex in the simulation. Mining, moving etc.
was a serious learning curve.

5/
ED has a vastly bigger playing field, but the "4, 3, 2, 1" FSD was getting
really tiresome.

6/
X4 lets you get into the action more quickly. Most of ED seams to be
being a taxi driver to earn credits to buy a better ship. And then what?
I guess to move on to P2P combat?

7/
I have restarted X4 a few times on the different starting roles. However
that annoying alien keeps popping up for me to help him. Can I kill it? Now I am
at the stage where I can basically buy anything I want. But then what?

I will play a little longer and then check out Star Citizen.

Anyway, both games are good. Same theme different implementation.

[Tomonor]

While they are both space "simulators", they are vastly different genres and only worth noting differences on a symbollic level.

The X series is about a multitude of things in a single player environment. You have an active economy and a balance between multiple factions.

Elite: Dangerous is a pseudo-MMOG with an experience-driven gameplay. Everything is flashy, enemies feel mysterious and threatening. They pretty much nailed the atmosphere of its universe. However it barely touches upon the elements that makes X great (go figure, it's not X after all).

Star Citizen is still in alpha phases (if we can call it that). The game isn't out yet, but already lacks a clear direction. If it ever comes out, it will either be the best space sim/mmo ever made, or the biggest flop/scam in the gaming industry's history.

[Falcrack]

The big differences to me are, in X4, you can own and operate multiple ships simultaneously, under control of NPC captains. You can own and operate factories. The economy simulation in X4 is much better, because the economy actually impacts ship production, in Elite there is no shipbuilding using resources. I enjoy the economic aspects of X4.

Elite looks prettier in many ways, but I have not been able to bring myself to fire up Elite in quite some time, I got bored of it. Elite certainly has many more systems (~400 billion), but after a while, they all look the same.

[graphicboy]

The lack of multiple ships is primarily what keeps me away from E.D. and others.

While I wish I could replicate in X.* the multi-box "fleet mining" experience from EVE, it's not possible. That, believe it or not, I enjoyed more than any other game I've ever played. Unfortunately, EVE killed mining. :shrug:

[Karmaticdamage]

The botters in eve would drool to have X4's miners. You mean I can has a hundred auto miners? On one running client? and they sell their own wares?
My main problem with E.D. is that its not a persistent world and everything is instanced. Also not being able to own or fly capital ships. Starpoint gemini warlords is like a middle ground between them. Part persistent and part instanced with the ability to have fleets and fly every ship. Star citizen is trying to do to much at once. I don't play space ships to run around on the ground with a gun, I have other games for that experience. X4 fore goes trying to make planet side combat and just sticks to space content.

[Nifhtyeq]

My roomy has X4, so I bought Elite: Dangerous. Thirty bucks. Small change.
Also the game has a serious following and is like thirty years old.

Anyway, we played ED for a while and then sat down and talked it over. I
prefer X4. But there are good points and points for each game.

1/
X4 has much better graphics and ships. The ships in ED look like they
were designed by a child.

2/
Now that I modded X4, the ship buying process is much better. I can
buy ten miners and leave the game running overnight. Then in the morning
I have like 100,000,000 credits and am like level 15-20 in several factions.

3/
I like how you can leave the ship in X4 and walk around (not that there
is much to do in basically abandoned stations) I felt like the bubble
boy in ED. Never leaving the dashboard?

4/
ED was much more complex in the simulation. Mining, moving etc.
was a serious learning curve.

5/
ED has a vastly bigger playing field, but the "4, 3, 2, 1" FSD was getting
really tiresome.

6/
X4 lets you get into the action more quickly. Most of ED seams to be
being a taxi driver to earn credits to buy a better ship. And then what?
I guess to move on to P2P combat?

7/
I have restarted X4 a few times on the different starting roles. However
that annoying alien keeps popping up for me to help him. Can I kill it? Now I am
at the stage where I can basically buy anything I want. But then what?

I will play a little longer and then check out Star Citizen.

Anyway, both games are good. Same theme different implementation.

I think what X games succeed at is being like mount and blade in space. X4 and previous x games succeed in giving a player a economic model to work into. The problem with star Citizen and elite is that they don't have. NPC captains to join your massive flotila and you don't have the ability to completely invade sectors there is not that level of sandboxing. You can't add mods or new ships and factions and that is my biggest problem. Having a economy that's runs without player interaction is probably the coolest part of x games.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

1/
X4 has much better graphics and ships. The ships in ED look like they
were designed by a child.

I disagree - the graphics for both games are roughly on par with each other. In ED, the cockpits on the whole are better IMO but I would not have ES change their approach to cockpits for X4. As for the ship models, both have good and bad models IMO.

2/
Now that I modded X4, the ship buying process is much better. I can
buy ten miners and leave the game running overnight. Then in the morning
I have like 100,000,000 credits and am like level 15-20 in several factions.

Modding support for the X-games is part of the charm of them. For ED, it would be an unrealistic expectation due to it's multi-player and dynamic on-line shared-universe-state nature.

3/
I like how you can leave the ship in X4 and walk around (not that there
is much to do in basically abandoned stations) I felt like the bubble
boy in ED. Never leaving the dashboard?

Space legs is essentially planned for ED and has been for some time - the concept of space-legs in games like ED and the X-Series is a bit controversial though since at least some do not see the need for it and others expect too much (more than is reasonable in the context) from such a feature.

ED does have proper avatar support which is more than can be said for X4.

4/
ED was much more complex in the simulation. Mining, moving etc.
was a serious learning curve.

ED is different in it's gameplay focus rather than more complex. X4 is more about station construction and fleets, ED is primarily about the player and their ship. While there are some similarities the two are distinctly different and IMO should not be trying to copy each other.

5/
ED has a vastly bigger playing field, but the "4, 3, 2, 1" FSD was getting
really tiresome.

ED has it's issues, but then so does X4.

6/
X4 lets you get into the action more quickly. Most of ED seams to be
being a taxi driver to earn credits to buy a better ship. And then what?
I guess to move on to P2P combat?

ED has quick action options but it is first and foremost a simulator in many respects. The action aspects of both games though are roughly on par with each other IMO though I think if you are primarily after a fast-paced action game then neither are really suited - both have their strengths and weaknesses in this area.

7/
I have restarted X4 a few times on the different starting roles. However
that annoying alien keeps popping up for me to help him. Can I kill it? Now I am
at the stage where I can basically buy anything I want. But then what?

Sounds like you are missing out on the X4 HQ plot if you are referring to who I think you are. Complete the plot, or use a mod that marks it complete - the choice is yours.

Anyway, both games are good. Same theme different implementation.

They are not the same theme though - at least in any meaningful sense of the term. Yes, they are both space based games with flight and combat elements but the similarities end there. I would hate for either game to try and copy unique features from the other.

[Nort The Fragrent]

Never had enough fuel in ED to get any where, so my ship is still abandoned drifting out somewhere. No fuel, too hard, boring. And to pay for a planetary lander and only get to use it in training sucks. So I abandoned ED and will not return.

X4, I have a long history in the x games, No fuel to worry about, so I can fly around forever if I choose too. Have all the ships, and can fly them. Big bonus.. Space is to small though. Could be so much bigger.

I am X4 through and through, just want more space sectors.

[graphicboy]

Maybe X5 can do away with the sector/highway model and move toward open universe...

[Tomonor]

Maybe X5 can do away with the sector/highway model and move toward open universe...

I don't think so, at least, not in the current canon. The jumpgates and the permanent racial tensions pretty much limit advancement in such exploration fields.

Not saying that it would be impossible to develop/explain (and that it wouldn't be cool to have), but it can potentionally damage the X-series brand.

[Nort The Fragrent]

You can still have an open universe and have jump gates as well. Jump gates get you there quicker. With local highways connecting Faction sectors. It’s not hard! It’s the way forward. And would make space/x universe more believable, more exploratory. But this would make it too hard for the Lazy pilots who just want to zip about quickly. The X universe is way too easy to get about in. And thus feels small. !!

[BigBANGtheory]

I think the main thing to take away is that whilst X4 and ED obviously overlap with the space sim genre both offer different experiences for the player.

If I was to try and sum it up I'd say:
- in ED you get the better more immersive pilot and online experience, lots to see less to do.
- in X4 you can grow and effect the environment in which you play (player agency), lots to do but less polished whilst doing stuff.

I've deliberately avoided Star Citizen so as not to burn out on the alpha/beta phases.

I'd also recommend people take a look at Empyrion - Galactic Survival. It is undeniably Early Access quality but its cheap to buy and has some really interesting gameplay you don't see in other sims if you like building, exploring and survival.

[Kadatherion]

X4 and ED have one thing in common more than anything else: they both are pretty wide, and they both aren't deep enough. With one notable difference: X4 is built to be deeper, and it's (slowly, but still) getting deeper with time. ED has been out for a long while, and still pretty much is as shallow as it was at launch, it only got wider. On the other hand, ED nails it's primary objective of old times "space truck sim" fairly well, while right now X4 lacks a lot of depth even in some of its most core mechanics, which is pretty bad. X4 feels a bit in the Anthem spot: just like Anthem is a shallow, content lacking looter-shooter that mindbogglingly fails at loot, X4 is a spacefaring/managing sim where there's little to no real variety between ships, ship equipment/weapons and similar content, and a lot of the managing mechanics are still if not broken pretty unreliable. On the bright side, of course, it's not a scammy live service, so there's still hope, and where Egosoft won't be able to fix things mods will anyway at least to a certain extent. It's just way too early and still has the chance of fulfilling its potential: ED unfortunately has already proven its own limits. Which is unfortunate, the old Elites were my first foray into space sims and I love the franchise.

[Nifhtyeq]

X4 and ED have one thing in common more than anything else: they both are pretty wide, and they both aren't deep enough. With one notable difference: X4 is built to be deeper, and it's (slowly, but still) getting deeper with time. ED has been out for a long while, and still pretty much is as shallow as it was at launch, it only got wider. On the other hand, ED nails it's primary objective of old times "space truck sim" fairly well, while right now X4 lacks a lot of depth even in some of its most core mechanics, which is pretty bad. X4 feels a bit in the Anthem spot: just like Anthem is a shallow, content lacking looter-shooter that mindbogglingly fails at loot, X4 is a spacefaring/managing sim where there's little to no real variety between ships, ship equipment/weapons and similar content, and a lot of the managing mechanics are still if not broken pretty unreliable. On the bright side, of course, it's not a scammy live service, so there's still hope, and where Egosoft won't be able to fix things mods will anyway at least to a certain extent. It's just way too early and still has the chance of fulfilling its potential: ED unfortunately has already proven its own limits. Which is unfortunate, the old Elites were my first foray into space sims and I love the franchise.

I don't think the comparison is the same though anthem had major support from a major publisher. And alot more people working on it. While a buggy mess at launch it's slowly but surely being stablized core issues like management are being addressed look at 2.5 patch notes. I've honestly seen early access and other steam games straight be abandoned by the devs. Honestly x games have always been really great after a few months even from earliest of x games. Also they did plan to address content concerns.

[Tomonor]

lol, Anthem was a cash-grab without any clear direction in world building from the start with lots of funding money behind their backs. They only knew that they wanted to make a futuristic coop game with jetpacks that would act as a magnet for sci-fi loving people.

X and Elite have tradition and culture. They, as a product are about money and investment, sure, but they have souls. They have a general view ingrained in people's mind since the last millenium. They are names/brands that people have good expectations for. Thus comparing them to Anthem is a sort of low blow, imo.

[Socratatus]

5/
ED has a vastly bigger playing field, but the "4, 3, 2, 1" FSD was getting
really tiresome.

But I like this bit.

Anyway, let me add a couple more, number...

8. You have to be Online 24\7 in Single Player, but not in X4 which wins hands down for me because of that. The amount of times Elite servers would crash while I was playing put me off Elite. It`s a needless weak link in a Single Player mode as I can`t just relax and play. In fact I wouldn`t have bought Elite had I know this before.

9. You can`t start a job, leave then come back later as it runs in real time. I left a half run job for a few days once and came back to see mission had failed cos time carried on while I was away.

[Shepp]

8. You have to be Online 24\7 in Single Player, but not in X4 which wins hands down for me because of that. The amount of times Elite servers would crash while I was playing put me off Elite. It`s a needless weak link in a Single Player mode as I can`t just relax and play. In fact I wouldn`t have bought Elite had I know this before.

This. I was so excited for Elite Dangerous when it got crowd funded. Once they announced the always online switch-a-roo, I walked away and never looked back.

[Nifhtyeq]

lol, Anthem was a cash-grab without any clear direction in world building from the start with lots of funding money behind their backs. They only knew that they wanted to make a futuristic coop game with jetpacks that would act as a magnet for sci-fi loving people.

X and Elite have tradition and culture. They, as a product are about money and investment, sure, but they have souls. They have a general view ingrained in people's mind since the last millenium. They are names/brands that people have good expectations for. Thus comparing them to Anthem is a sort of low blow, imo.

Exactly x games have always been a certain niche type of space sim. X games are an idea of a fully fledged universe at your fingertips that allow you complete freedom.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Never had enough fuel in ED to get any where, so my ship is still abandoned drifting out somewhere. No fuel, too hard, boring. And to pay for a planetary lander and only get to use it in training sucks. So I abandoned ED and will not return.

Sounds like a clear case of failing to understand the game mechanics that have been part of the Elite game since the 1984 original - fuel scoops have always been part of those games and managing fuel in the Elite games is not that hard all things considered. That being said, I do not believe the Elite fuel mechanic would fit as well in an X-series game.

X4, I have a long history in the x games, No fuel to worry about, so I can fly around forever if I choose too. Have all the ships, and can fly them. Big bonus.. Space is to small though. Could be so much bigger.

Once you pass a certain point in the X-games, the universe invariably feels smaller but the fact of the matter is that the X-games have never really been about endless (or near endless) space exploration. In the Elite games, you can get that feel but after a while things may start to feel rather samey.

I am X4 through and through, just want more space sectors.

I get the impression that more sectors are planned as part of the paid-for DLC, you do have the option of mods if you don't want to buy said DLC or are impatient for the DLC.

[Kadatherion]

lol, Anthem was a cash-grab without any clear direction in world building from the start with lots of funding money behind their backs. They only knew that they wanted to make a futuristic coop game with jetpacks that would act as a magnet for sci-fi loving people.

X and Elite have tradition and culture. They, as a product are about money and investment, sure, but they have souls. They have a general view ingrained in people's mind since the last millenium. They are names/brands that people have good expectations for. Thus comparing them to Anthem is a sort of low blow, imo.

Couldn't care less in this circumstance about EA's and Bioware's debacle per se, nor about the history behind X games (didn't Bioware had a great tradition once too, btw? Have we already forgotten everything about that?): I only talked about the state of the game compared to what is supposed to achieve. One is a looter shooter that lacks content and has broken loot, the other is a space-sim that lacks content (and it lacks it a lot when compared to how other X games were at launch, not to some unfair standard) and has a pretty broken simulation. Things that are being addressed in X4's case (at least some and to an extent), while the same can't be said about Anthem, which I did mention extensively in my comparison, so I find it hard to see how it was a low blow in any way. Yes, we love X games, yes, we can still be moderately optimistic X4 development will be going strong for quite a while and yes, Egosoft has a track record of fixing things at least later down the road: this changes nothing about the state the game shipped in.