I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

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pref
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by pref » Tue, 5. Mar 19, 17:43

consiefe wrote:
Tue, 5. Mar 19, 13:23
Really? If this is truth it's the only news that I got about this game for a long while. I didn't see this kind of mechanic yet I didn't play the war aspect due to bugged missions. Do you tell factions are able to declare wars or ceasefires? They definitely should be but I was disappointed upon not seeing it.
Yep. HOP just expanded into faulty logic (xenon space).
What's even more, due to me building a huge complex near HOP space they had access to lots of ship and station building supplies. This resulted in HOP building some 10+ stations in xenon space.
They could have never done that without my support.

While this count (11 in the region i explored just around the gate) is excessive and seems like a bug/oversight in the faction logic scripts, it is also a great sign imo regarding what the game will be capable of when all gets smoothed out.

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Malakie
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Malakie » Tue, 5. Mar 19, 22:44

Rincewind79 wrote:
Sun, 3. Mar 19, 15:47
So here's my story: bought the game right after launch and played until patch 1.5. At that point I had visited the whole universe, placed satellites in almost all sectors, had some universe traders and some nice, capable fighters. Next steps would include building my own economy, army and advance the HQ.

But there was just no reason to do that. By providing no challenge whatsoever, my motivation just went poof and didnt come back. I have to say, that in the hundreds of hours I spent in X3 I refrained from building my own stations, because it was very complicated and like in X4 optional. But there was always enough to do. Some sectors were very dangerous solo, just flying thru them was a challenge. It took a very long time, till I could destroy whole xenon sectors by myself. The time it took to discover the whole universe, the time it took to just fly to the most remote sector to find the hidden ship, every aspect felt so much bigger and more satisfying mastering them.

In comparison X4 feels like the most casual version. In the beginning I liked a lot of the way more comfortable interface, faster traveling and easier shopping experience, but by reducing the complexity, they also reduced longevity of gameplay (for me) by a lot! In retrospect X3 felt more like Dark Souls/STALKER:Misery and X4 is more like... I don't know, I haven't played a game in the past ten years, that was so simple and ended so quickly (but wasnt meant to).

Has patch 2.0 changed any of that? Is the universe more lively, challenging and complex?
Tell me you are joking? I have a LOT more hours then that in and not even close to the game being over... Have you completed every single campaign mission chain? For the Argon, Teladi, HOP and others? Have you taken over all sectors or built a starbase empire? Have you beaten the Kaack and the Xenon so they do not have sectors under control anymore?

Have you found all the depots, filled the entire time line and other hidden items?

I very much doubt you accomplished all that in 20 hours. LOL
Take it light.....

Malakie

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CaptainX4
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by CaptainX4 » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12

Malakie wrote:
Tue, 5. Mar 19, 22:44

Tell me you are joking? I have a LOT more hours then that in and not even close to the game being over... Have you completed every single campaign mission chain? For the Argon, Teladi, HOP and others? Have you taken over all sectors or built a starbase empire? Have you beaten the Kaack and the Xenon so they do not have sectors under control anymore?

Have you found all the depots, filled the entire time line and other hidden items?

I very much doubt you accomplished all that in 20 hours. LOL
and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

CaptainSim
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by CaptainSim » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:17

CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12
Malakie wrote:
Tue, 5. Mar 19, 22:44

Tell me you are joking? I have a LOT more hours then that in and not even close to the game being over... Have you completed every single campaign mission chain? For the Argon, Teladi, HOP and others? Have you taken over all sectors or built a starbase empire? Have you beaten the Kaack and the Xenon so they do not have sectors under control anymore?

Have you found all the depots, filled the entire time line and other hidden items?

I very much doubt you accomplished all that in 20 hours. LOL
and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

There is no particular right way to play the game. He was just giving you the full extent of your possibilities. If you wanted to do EVERYTHING, it would take much longer than 20 hours obviously. Another way to challenge yourself is to institute Ironman mode and restart from the beginning rather than your last save. That's what I do. It keeps things mysterious until I've really earned it.

CaptainX4
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by CaptainX4 » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:24

CaptainSim wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:17
CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12
Malakie wrote:
Tue, 5. Mar 19, 22:44

Tell me you are joking? I have a LOT more hours then that in and not even close to the game being over... Have you completed every single campaign mission chain? For the Argon, Teladi, HOP and others? Have you taken over all sectors or built a starbase empire? Have you beaten the Kaack and the Xenon so they do not have sectors under control anymore?

Have you found all the depots, filled the entire time line and other hidden items?

I very much doubt you accomplished all that in 20 hours. LOL
and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

There is no particular right way to play the game. He was just giving you the full extent of your possibilities. If you wanted to do EVERYTHING, it would take much longer than 20 hours obviously. Another way to challenge yourself is to institute Ironman mode and restart from the beginning rather than your last save. That's what I do. It keeps things mysterious until I've really earned it.
no, sadly he insisted that the other guy didnt finish the game because he has to do all those things to claim that. and thats pretty different. Im not sure though how to do ironman in this game as I cant remember a single case where I died for anything but bugs and for me that wouldnt justify a restart, I used to start fresh though with each upgrade. the very sad thing is that after the second restart there is no any mysterious in this game as you will just know everything and again it will be just repetitive. ohh there and there and there were the depots, there i can buy that ship... etc etc etc. as there is no real variation, especially reasonable variation there is just no reason. at least if some stuff would be random but its not...

CaptainSim
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by CaptainSim » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:31

CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:24
CaptainSim wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:17
CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12


and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

There is no particular right way to play the game. He was just giving you the full extent of your possibilities. If you wanted to do EVERYTHING, it would take much longer than 20 hours obviously. Another way to challenge yourself is to institute Ironman mode and restart from the beginning rather than your last save. That's what I do. It keeps things mysterious until I've really earned it.
no, sadly he insisted that the other guy didnt finish the game because he has to do all those things to claim that. and thats pretty different. Im not sure though how to do ironman in this game as I cant remember a single case where I died for anything but bugs and for me that wouldnt justify a restart, I used to start fresh though with each upgrade. the very sad thing is that after the second restart there is no any mysterious in this game as you will just know everything and again it will be just repetitive. ohh there and there and there were the depots, there i can buy that ship... etc etc etc. as there is no real variation, especially reasonable variation there is just no reason. at least if some stuff would be random but its not...
Yeah I admit it is pretty easy to stay alive in this game, especially if you avoid conflict hotspots. But I thought I'd mention it as another way to challenge yourself.

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by MHDriver » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55

Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.

CaptainSim
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by CaptainSim » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 03:19

MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55
Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.
You've gained +30 with every faction. Wouldn't the next logical step be to take over the factions? That might be something to do if you're up to it.

MHDriver
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by MHDriver » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:06

CaptainSim wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 03:19
MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55
Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.
You've gained +30 with every faction. Wouldn't the next logical step be to take over the factions? That might be something to do if you're up to it.
What does that entail taking over a faction and what would be the benefit? From what I see those factions are at least cannon fodder for the Xenon incursions if nothing else.

pref
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by pref » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:11

MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:06
What does that entail taking over a faction and what would be the benefit?
Benefit is that you are all alone in the universe locked up with all your own genial NPCs.
In my book that's a game over more like, but to each their own..

MHDriver
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by MHDriver » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:44

pref wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:11
MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 04:06
What does that entail taking over a faction and what would be the benefit?
Benefit is that you are all alone in the universe locked up with all your own genial NPCs.
In my book that's a game over more like, but to each their own..
I see

Thecrippler
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Thecrippler » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 05:56

MHDriver wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 02:55
Interesting thread and replies. I have never played any X series games before X4 and only because I was just tired of Elite, EOL and waiting on SC. I bought the game at the beginning of Feb and enjoyed it enough that currently I have over 600 hrs in the game (I'm Retired). I started wondering is it just me or is this galaxy too small for this game, but I see others do as well.

In short, due to some bugs I guess in 1.6 I have 95 ships, 50 stations and about 3 b in credits and it seems that I have over saturated the economy or maybe it is the 2.0 changes but revenue has just dried up. Most of my industrial ships just sit in space full of wares with nowhere to go. I have explored everything, earned +30 rep with all the major factions and now all I do now is sit in the map mode trying to defend the four quadrants from the Xenon incursion so I spend little time actually in a ship since the change. Seems Egosoft have decided the game needs to be war based and everything else is incidental to that. At any rate, I have run out of things to do other than fight Xenos and think maybe X series is just a flash in the pan and it is time to move on.
Same for me got everything what I need it and there is noting more to do and like you said time to move on

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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Kadatherion » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 12:15

Fact is, X4 is smaller than X3 in every department.

- Galaxy is smaller, both factually (yeah, sectors can "expand"... into virtual nothingness, so the feature is moot by definition) and gameplay wise: due to highways, you can traverse the galaxy from one corner to the other in a matter of minutes. Sure, in X3 we had jumpdrives for an equivalent result, but the actual initial effort to map the 232!! (in AP) sectors, quite a few of them pretty well hidden, was massive and kept you occupied for a good chunk of the early to mid game.

- There was a lot more to do in X3: way more ship types and classes to fly and experiment with (all of them much more diverse), more races, missions, more of everything. Prices - and the time it took to make a profit - were way higher too, it took much longer to get to the capital ships (real capitals, not the ones that fly almost like medium sized ones here), but there also was enough content and diversity to keep you occupied during the "grind".

- There were plots. Granted I don't miss them per se - they often were pretty much glorified tutorials and also often were pretty bad overall - they were yet another type of content to interact with while you slowly progressed. Scrapping the developing intensive plots would have been mighty fine if that meant using those resources and that time to offer more - and more involved - game generated content. But... they didn't.

When it comes down to it, X4 is a shell. A foundation, yeah: a platform that - when one day it will hopefully work in its base mechanics, many of which are currently still broken - could grow to offer a comparable amount of content. Right now it doesn't. The major reason why it's hard to really spend hundreds of hours in it is that there's hardly reason to: for instance, one of the biggest pushes to progression in X3 was getting that bigger ship, or that ship of another race you had to build relations with, to try the new toys it came with, different weapons and such. First to fly them personally, then to choose how to build (and flavour) your fleets. Would you mix and match? Would you go with the Terran ships to see your fleets use their exclusive weapons? Or would you flavour your fleet with OTAS ships only? And so on. You could spend hours just trying to find (or cap) that unique ship variant with a special loadout or look to then mass produce it at your HQ. In X4 all ships mount the same few weapons, nothing really relevant changes between ship classes or manufacturing race: as such, nothing really changes in your gameplay apart from having a bigger cargo, more or fewer turrets, and more or less sluggish flight, everything is pretty much the same. As such, nothing really keeps you invested for the long term.

Obviously, the dynamic faction wars and conquests are where we could see X4 beat X3: it's a feature X3 only had in a couple mods. Wars and player conquest can be a long term goal that makes you feel invested and push you through the grind. When they'll work. They are just barely beginning to, up until 2.0 they simply were not really implemented (even though they kept assuring they were...). And this is the other problem with X4: what little content actually is in the game, often doesn't really work yet. We'll see when they'll be finally in as they should. Even though, I've got to say, "wars and conquests" lose quite a bit of appeal when factions have half a dozen sectors tops, instead of several dozens. There's the risk they are going to feel more like neighborhood squabbles rather than "epic" wars. I seriously hope when the race expansions hit, they won't just add 5 sectors per race and put the Split there, the Boron here, but also add quite a bit more unrelated sectors all around to increase the scope of the galaxy. Some of the mechanics introduced in X4 can grow to be fairly interesting, but right now X4 suffers from an ironic malady: the foundations it's built upon are way too small to support them and let them reach their full potential.

Ramokthan
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Ramokthan » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 17:01

X3 took a lot more time because it was way more difficult and grindy.

Which is imo, neither good or bad. thing i miss is the feeling of getting a new bigger ship feeling satisfying because:
1. there is almost no effort to get the new ship
2. they are not particular stronger.

Since Weapons across S M and L share the same mechanics and cooldown rates and dodging is somewhat useless unless you fight vs a guy with plasmas fighting feels like holding your fire on the enemy till he pops because he tries to dodge while he cant fire at you while he dodges. After that only numbers win. Not Equipment or Pilot skill (NPC or Yourself). Outnumber the enemy and you win. No smart weapon selection/setup, tactics, battleformations or skilled Pilots needed.

The ship designs are... well i got the feeling they look clunky all across the board. I absolutely loved the design differences in both graphics and specializations for Borons/Split/Paranids/Argons/Teladi. Now we not only have 3 active factions left but also their ships lack uniqueness. In X3 i cound tell from a mile away which faction this ship is from. In X4 im not even sure when i am standing right beside it.

Oh and srsly even tho i like the Teladi, i really really miss the Borons (yeah i met Boso Ta already) and especially their gorgeous ship designs.

Another thing that pretty much disappointed me is that it was said in early dev you can walk on your ships... but well there is only the bridge you can walk on, and on most ships that is not even mentionable.
I had a gorgon in my first save, which was a bit better according this, because there were several terminals on the bridge where you saw your service crew actually working. This is the stuff that makes the experience immersive.

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Malakie
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Re: I dont get it. Spent hundreds of hours in X3, but X4 is over after 20?

Post by Malakie » Wed, 6. Mar 19, 21:37

CaptainX4 wrote:
Wed, 6. Mar 19, 00:12
Malakie wrote:
Tue, 5. Mar 19, 22:44

Tell me you are joking? I have a LOT more hours then that in and not even close to the game being over... Have you completed every single campaign mission chain? For the Argon, Teladi, HOP and others? Have you taken over all sectors or built a starbase empire? Have you beaten the Kaack and the Xenon so they do not have sectors under control anymore?

Have you found all the depots, filled the entire time line and other hidden items?

I very much doubt you accomplished all that in 20 hours. LOL
and you think those are the things people have to do to finish the game? to find all the 28 depots and do the same crap 28 times for 28 useless reward? these are not the reason to play, these are just little things during the journey and X games were never about ruling the universe. its to become the most powerful, to reach the top, and thats pretty doable in 20 hours. form that taking down a xenon sector is just: go! kill!, well, would be if it worked but its not even working. I can capture tons of huge ships turn them on any faction and deal with them in no time, but total destruction is just repetitive and not the aim for everybody, i for one liked to live in peace with all factions, build up my empire fight only the xenon and khaak and in earlier games this took months, now in 20 hours you can easily get to the level where you would be able to beat the crap out of anybody and you dont even need to exploit the game for it, just play normally...

So, I will ask again, you have completed the entire main campaign mission train? All the other campaign mission changes etc? All of them? There is more to a game that just "beating the crap out of them"... but I guess you must be one of those type players that just likes to get through a game as fast as possible and not bother to find or do any of the other things that take a little effort to find and do... so be it, your loss not mine.
Take it light.....

Malakie

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