[1.60] Are the Xenon supposed to be a threat?

[HBK]

That's a serious question.

I'm currently running a 1.60 new game save and there are massive Paranid and Teladi fleets around their Xenon entry points (so three out of four, Hatikvah's choice being another matter entirely, HAT not having a proper military fleet AFAICT).

By massive fleets I mean dozens of fighters (with it seems limitless supplies of those nuke missiles) plus multiple corvettes PLUS multiple frigates/destroyers. Needless to say no tentative of even multiple Ks with an I can pierce those defenses.

The Teladi have even started invading one of the Xenon sectors where dozens of their ships are going on a rampage.

My original 1.10 save wasn't like that at all and while I appreciate that the game has a lot of intrinsic randomness, it just doesn't feel right that the Xenon are that weak. In a few more days of playtime they'll go extinct and the player wouldn't have anything to do with it.

So is this intended behavior? Are the Xenon ships too weak? Aren't especially the Paranid supposed to wage war on each other and lose some of those military ships?

Right now my game is one hell of a peaceful place

[Bubonosaure]

I suggest downloading FOWC 2.4 and Faction Fix pack 1.5. Xenon capitals get a lot scarier and invasions are actually quite big so you'll have plenty of economic niche to settle in. There are also a bunch of very nice and soft balance changes, combat wise, that should make everything feel smoother while staying true to the vanilla spirit. I know you probably want another answer than mod suggestion but Vanilla, at this point, is just a dead and tired horse.

[consiefe]

.....
I know you probably want another answer than mod suggestion but Vanilla, at this point, is just a dead and tired horse.

Lol! Yes, I am waiting for 2.0 since 1.60. It's my last drop of patience and glimmer of hope for enjoying a clean vanilla game. I know when I mod my game, it will turn to something else that I don't be able to give up. I hear about drastic changes.

[Shehriazad]

I HOPE that they will turn into a threat sometime soon...they're a joke atm.

In X3 I clearly remember even in the best ship...if you went too hard in the paint, you might explode.


Here? You can take apart entire fleets in a freakin S-fighter no biggie.


I hgave no clue when 2.0 is coming...but I hope we get a beta patch SOON to give us another wave of fixes/changes.


In the support forums some devs today talked about some things already being fixed in 2.0 (Beta)...so I'd wager we might get lucky this week.

[consiefe]

I HOPE that they will turn into a threat sometime soon...they're a joke atm.

In X3 I clearly remember even in the best ship...if you went too hard in the paint, you might explode.


Here? You can take apart entire fleets in a freakin S-fighter no biggie.


I hgave no clue when 2.0 is coming...but I hope we get a beta patch SOON to give us another wave of fixes/changes.


In the support forums some devs today talked about some things already being fixed in 2.0 (Beta)...so I'd wager we might get lucky this week.

Yes, in another threat CBJ said they aimed for this week. I hope it comes today as today is this week. This beta patch will determine my mod situation. I'd rather get my game modded after I got bored with vanilla in a few years.

[Shehriazad]

Yes, in another threat CBJ said they aimed for this week. I hope it comes today as today is this week. This beta patch will determine my mod situation. I'd rather get my game modded after I got bored with vanilla in a few years.

Same. Modding is the thing I do last before leaving the game for good. Not to mention the mods right now aren't meaty enough for me to consider. So depending how it goes I will probably FINALLY take a break until the Split DLC if 2.0 is too "eeeh" for me.

[Bubonosaure]

Well, I'm not talking overhaul. The mods i use fix trading, they mostly fix factions and bring a bit of balance. This is purely QoL. But doubt you'll ever see 10 PAR destroyers and a Zeus hoping into SOP territory and destroying stations anytime soon. Or a K that can actually kill things. Like you guys, I still wanna stay fairly vanilla right now but this is litteraly unplayable without mods. What's the point of playing if nothing works and nothing happens ?

[theborg921]

I'm not 100% shure, but I think that the xenon shipyards/wharfs production is stuck. I have a lot of xenons in HAT sector but the other sectors are olmost empty. Atm i'm trying to destroy the ships under construction at the xenon shipyards/wharfs to see if ther will be any change...

[consiefe]

Well, I'm not talking overhaul. The mods i use fix trading, they mostly fix factions and bring a bit of balance. This is purely QoL. But doubt you'll ever see 10 PAR destroyers and a Zeus hoping into SOP territory and destroying stations anytime soon. Or a K that can actually kill things. Like you guys, I still wanna stay fairly vanilla right now but this is litteraly unplayable without mods. What's the point of playing if nothing works and nothing happens ?

Yeah, that's why I am not playing at all. I have other good games as replacement. I really dig Empyrion, different taste of course but a good one.

I agree mods are the only way to enjoy X4 right now. Either you play with them or not play and wait for patches. Both decisions are fine and can be used according to circumstances.

[Bubonosaure]

Oh nice ! really wanted to give Empyrion a try too. Avorion also seems like a very fun game.

[consiefe]

Oh nice ! really wanted to give Empyrion a try too. Avorion also seems like a very fun game.

Wow, very impressive! You just made my day, I'm sold.

Edit: Now I feel like I have three great space games except one of them still needs baking. Maybe today?

And it's very funny that the other two are early access while this is golden. OK, I don't want to be blunt with X4, it will achieve greatness, I believe.

[Tomonor]

Lore-wise, it's not clear. The Xenon had a history of making skirmishes on the hurting points of the races, but only rarely did they ever venture to capture entire clusters. When there was an opportunity for the Argon Federation to eradicate the Xenon from existance by destroying their two main core ships #EEFA and #DEFF, the mysterious ancient race have sent a message not to - instead quaranteen them into small, easily managable systems where they could exist without causing problems on large scale. And while #DEFF was destroyed, the now sentient #EEFA managed to unite with the Ancient's cloud thus integrating itself into the cosmic mind and leaving its minions/drones/xenon behind. The quaranteen seemingly worked out until the Terran Conflict.

During the Terran Conflict however, the Community of Planets with the help of the Beryll Corporation took extreme measures against the Terrans for survival and they started tempering with the AGI technology once more (which was mostly the case with the Split beforehand). The Terrans have responded accordingly and a full scale war ensued. It is unknown how many new generation Xenon were constructed and how they behaved after the war - but it surely must have created an imbalance because Xenon no longer stick to their skirmish profile and actively try to terraform once again.

The game's files support the existance of an AGI core ship so the Xenon might have a reason to carry out these attacks.

[theborg921]

Tbh i don't get the Xenon. It's rumored that they are such a menace to the universe that the ancient turned off the entire JG network, but in the game they don’t muster the forces to mount an invasion on a single sector. I would really like to see some kind of plot that triggers a massive Xenon invasion of the known system. The argon mission you can do in x4 already talks about an impeding xenon invasion so… and we still don't know where the main Xenon sector is located :-/

[Tilen]

There are multiple issues with the Xenon and the whole war thing. I am waiting for 2.0 too. When this is fixed, I finally get to enjoy the game again.

[Shehriazad]

Tbh i don't get the Xenon. It's rumored that they are such a menace to the universe that the ancient turned off the entire JG network, but in the game they don’t muster the forces to mount an invasion on a single sector. I would really like to see some kind of plot that triggers a massive Xenon invasion of the known system. The argon mission you can do in x4 already talks about an impeding xenon invasion so… and we still don't know where the main Xenon sector is located :-/

Wait didn't the ancients/Sohnen turn off the jumpgates whenever we got close to delivering a decisive blow to a Xenon branch so we could never fully destroy them or stop their evolution?

Plus what's really weird is that EVERY NPC fighting them keeps taunting/joking about them...no one takes them serious it seems.

It is highly confusing.

They need to redo he cap ships and add some more dangerous M ships and maybe even an L ship...I wouldn't complain if they also added a way to capture and fly some of them (hint hint)

[theborg921]

Tbh i don't get the Xenon. It's rumored that they are such a menace to the universe that the ancient turned off the entire JG network, but in the game they don’t muster the forces to mount an invasion on a single sector. I would really like to see some kind of plot that triggers a massive Xenon invasion of the known system. The argon mission you can do in x4 already talks about an impeding xenon invasion so… and we still don't know where the main Xenon sector is located :-/

Wait didn't the ancients/Sohnen turn off the jumpgates whenever we got close to delivering a decisive blow to a Xenon branch so we could never fully destroy them or stop their evolution?

Plus what's really weird is that EVERY NPC fighting them keeps taunting/joking about them...no one takes them serious it seems.

It is highly confusing.

They need to redo he cap ships and add some more dangerous M ships and maybe even an L ship...I wouldn't complain if they also added a way to capture and fly some of them (hint hint)

tbh I don't, but i would like to know the whole story obout the xenon and why the JG went offline . And to be honest i think that the Terrans are the only race in the game that took Xenons as a seriouse treath...

[consiefe]

Tbh i don't get the Xenon. It's rumored that they are such a menace to the universe that the ancient turned off the entire JG network, but in the game they don’t muster the forces to mount an invasion on a single sector. I would really like to see some kind of plot that triggers a massive Xenon invasion of the known system. The argon mission you can do in x4 already talks about an impeding xenon invasion so… and we still don't know where the main Xenon sector is located :-/

Wait didn't the ancients/Sohnen turn off the jumpgates whenever we got close to delivering a decisive blow to a Xenon branch so we could never fully destroy them or stop their evolution?

Plus what's really weird is that EVERY NPC fighting them keeps taunting/joking about them...no one takes them serious it seems.

It is highly confusing.

They need to redo he cap ships and add some more dangerous M ships and maybe even an L ship...I wouldn't complain if they also added a way to capture and fly some of them (hint hint)

tbh I don't, but i would like to know the whole story obout the xenon and why the JG went offline . And to be honest i think that the Terrans are the only race in the game that took Xenons as a seriouse treath...

Becuase Xenon is the creation of Terrans. They have god complex and love themselves through their design. They think Xenon is frighteningly beautiful.

[Wou]

From a certain standpoint it makes sense I guess. I mean that the machines while capable of greatly expanding and recreating their numbers, collecting resources and forging them into armies and so on are maybe not that good at innovation and creativity. And after decades and centuries they're much lesser threat to continuously improving and upgrading their stuff living races, large numbers but poor quality.

Not exactly sure that's the intended scenario here though

[Shehriazad]

Tbh i don't get the Xenon. It's rumored that they are such a menace to the universe that the ancient turned off the entire JG network, but in the game they don’t muster the forces to mount an invasion on a single sector. I would really like to see some kind of plot that triggers a massive Xenon invasion of the known system. The argon mission you can do in x4 already talks about an impeding xenon invasion so… and we still don't know where the main Xenon sector is located :-/

Wait didn't the ancients/Sohnen turn off the jumpgates whenever we got close to delivering a decisive blow to a Xenon branch so we could never fully destroy them or stop their evolution?

Plus what's really weird is that EVERY NPC fighting them keeps taunting/joking about them...no one takes them serious it seems.

It is highly confusing.

They need to redo he cap ships and add some more dangerous M ships and maybe even an L ship...I wouldn't complain if they also added a way to capture and fly some of them (hint hint)

tbh I don't, but i would like to know the whole story obout the xenon and why the JG went offline . And to be honest i think that the Terrans are the only race in the game that took Xenons as a seriouse treath...

So I will TRY to piece anything I still remember together.




1: Humans invent Terraformers to try and make planets far away hospitable

(They also build a jumpgate at some point during this near Earth...the first time a race that isn't Ancient does this)

2:Humans give a new generation of Terraformers the ability to work autonomously by using resources they find on planets to replicate,replace and upgrade themselves

3:Updates for the Terraformer software are being sent via drones.

4:Due to bad funding a bad update is being sent out to them. The Terraformers are now allowed to evolve themselves and change according to their needs.

5:Terraformers start attacking settlements that humans had previously won through this and other method

6:Terraformers get close to earth, already killing millions on their way there.

7: A big part of the Terran/Xenon army is being let away by Nathan R. Gunne through the Earth-gate and the Earth gate gets destroyed. (R. Gunne being one of the most important names of the X universe, even factions are based off of it)

8:Terrans/Xenon that stayed back at earth are defeated after heavy losses.

9:A lot of back and forth with many battles being won against the Xenon.

10: MANY years later the Xenon seem relatively close to extinction. The Sohnen appear and tell us to stop nuking the Xenon and change the gate connections.

11: The NEXT year the Xenon evolve to have an ACTUAL self-awerenes. They are now sentient/real beings.

12:The now aware Xenon no longer want war and stop attacking/invading.

Bonus1: Some idiots think its' a good idea to build new Terraformers near Mercury and cause another Terraformer uprising.




I am not sure that we know the exact circumstances why the Xenon are hostile atm. Maybe they are as name would suggest just a "BRANCH" of the main Xenon that either has not achieved self-awareness or they are an extremist splintergroup. It is also possible they just defend their sectors right now which is why they rarely stray far from their sectors...maybe there is a reason, but it is not known to me.


As to WHY the Sohnen are helping the Xenon. AFAIK the Sohnen are ROBOTS/MACHINES/ANDROIDS themselves. They are the first mechanical species to be accepted by the ancients and are thus kind of their "executioners" as physical involvement is probably beyond the ancients by now.. The Sohnen might see a bit of themselves in the Xenon and knew that they were about to evolve into self-aware/sentien beings and thus helped to give them the chance they might deserve.
Because ANY genocide caused BEFORE being self-aware is nothing you could IN THEORY blame the Xenon for. They did not know concepts of self, of good, of life and whatnot. They only had their directives and evolved alongside those.
The Sohnen are currently also the Only level 3+ (or level 4) civilization with a physical presence in our universe atm....so even if we wanted to question their motives, we have no leverage.

[theborg921]

Wait didn't the ancients/Sohnen turn off the jumpgates whenever we got close to delivering a decisive blow to a Xenon branch so we could never fully destroy them or stop their evolution?

Plus what's really weird is that EVERY NPC fighting them keeps taunting/joking about them...no one takes them serious it seems.

It is highly confusing.

They need to redo he cap ships and add some more dangerous M ships and maybe even an L ship...I wouldn't complain if they also added a way to capture and fly some of them (hint hint)

tbh I don't, but i would like to know the whole story obout the xenon and why the JG went offline . And to be honest i think that the Terrans are the only race in the game that took Xenons as a seriouse treath...

So I will TRY to piece anything I still remember together.




1: Humans invent Terraformers to try and make planets far away hospitable

(They also build a jumpgate at some point during this near Earth...the first time a race that isn't Ancient does this)

2:Humans give a new generation of Terraformers the ability to work autonomously by using resources they find on planets to replicate,replace and upgrade themselves

3:Updates for the Terraformer software are being sent via drones.

4:Due to bad funding a bad update is being sent out to them. The Terraformers are now allowed to evolve themselves and change according to their needs.

5:Terraformers start attacking settlements that humans had previously won through this and other method

6:Terraformers get close to earth, already killing millions on their way there.

7: A big part of the Terran/Xenon army is being let away by Nathan R. Gunne through the Earth-gate and the Earth gate gets destroyed. (R. Gunne being one of the most important names of the X universe, even factions are based off of it)

8:Terrans/Xenon that stayed back at earth are defeated after heavy losses.

9:A lot of back and forth with many battles being won against the Xenon.

10: MANY years later the Xenon seem relatively close to extinction. The Sohnen appear and tell us to stop nuking the Xenon and change the gate connections.

11: The NEXT year the Xenon evolve to have an ACTUAL self-awerenes. They are now sentient/real beings.

12:The now aware Xenon no longer want war and stop attacking/invading.

Bonus1: Some idiots think its' a good idea to build new Terraformers near Mercury and cause another Terraformer uprising.




I am not sure that we know the exact circumstances why the Xenon are hostile atm. Maybe they are as name would suggest just a "BRANCH" of the main Xenon that either has not achieved self-awareness or they are an extremist splintergroup. It is also possible they just defend their sectors right now which is why they rarely stray far from their sectors...maybe there is a reason, but it is not known to me.


As to WHY the Sohnen are helping the Xenon. AFAIK the Sohnen are ROBOTS/MACHINES/ANDROIDS themselves. They are the first mechanical species to be accepted by the ancients and are thus kind of their "executioners" as physical involvement is probably beyond the ancients by now.. The Sohnen might see a bit of themselves in the Xenon and knew that they were about to evolve into self-aware/sentien beings and thus helped to give them the chance they might deserve.
Because ANY genocide caused BEFORE being self-aware is nothing you could IN THEORY blame the Xenon for. They did not know concepts of self, of good, of life and whatnot. They only had their directives and evolved alongside those.
The Sohnen are currently also the Only level 3+ (or level 4) civilization with a physical presence in our universe atm....so even if we wanted to question their motives, we have no leverage.

uhuhu tnx man. Ok it makes a little bit of sense now. So tbh we need a new enemy in the game to spice up the life in our part of the universe