"The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

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radcapricorn
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by radcapricorn »

darthraven wrote:How about a roadmap? How about having a pinned thread with all known problems and bugs with a timeline of when or how each one will be tackled, you'd have to think they have something along those lines in-house, why not be a bit more open with us?
It's been talked about time and time again. What do you want them to do, fix the bugs or play HR all day? They're already doing both as it is with what resources they have. Just observe the Tech Sp. forum for a given day.
...but people saying their turrets are still not working after 1.32 is not looked at?
It is being looked at, Bernd said as much in an interview.
I don't know maybe you think all I have said above to be unimportant and in this day and age of super extremes on the internet (e.g your super right or your super left) you can never really get people to see your point of view, so maybe this whole post is a futile attempt? Ohh well.
It's not that, darthraven. It's just that it's I-lost-count-how-many-there-was such thread. Definitely not the first one, nor the fifth one. Look at the starting post: there's literally nothing new in it, except one bogus claim.
crazyinside
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by crazyinside »

leecarter wrote: Fri, 14. Dec 18, 23:59 Is it buggy? Yes. Is it missing features? Absolutely.

But... this is the ONLY game that offers this kind of game play out there. We're not talking yet another first person shooter or online survival game. ED is a fine game, but it doesn't do what X4 does, no game does. For that reason I'm willing to pay and support these developers. Because I WANT this kind of game, and Egosoft is the only dealer on the block offering it.
Avorion - that is voxel based same style, with living and brathing galaxy, economy, crafting mining, building fleets, trading, stations and much more. In many cases even more fun.
kmunoz
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by kmunoz »

People still complain about the bugs in Early Access games, and still write review of Early Access games as if they were fully released versions. I suspect OP is one of those people, honestly. EGOSOFT likely would not have gained enough in goodwill to offset the smaller customer base and smaller income for putting the game into Early Access.
Let's Play Poorly! - Suboptimal X4 Playthroughs
CaptainX4
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by CaptainX4 »

kmunoz wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 00:09 EGOSOFT likely would not have gained enough in goodwill to offset the smaller customer base and smaller income for putting the game into Early Access.
so it justifies lies?
lordmuck
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by lordmuck »

Its a forum, let the OP say what he needs to say. Everyone needs to feel heard / acknowledged. Not attacked for speaking about what has upset his experience, even if you know these things have been said already or a 1000 times.
AlienM1nd
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by AlienM1nd »

should have gone a month early access to get those showstoppers.
Tali$
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Tali$ »

Truth be told, I loved x2-x3AP, and trashed X-Rebirth as it was garbage for a solid year after release. Unfortunately had dumped too many hours sifting through the garbage for diamonds to get a refund. No idea if it's still garbage now, but wouldn't bother trying to see if it's any good.

But honestly X4: Foundations is pretty damn good. The bugs you're mentioning are pretty low in priority, none are game breaking. More of an annoyance, which I would *assume* are already in the bug squashing list.

As much as I hate this answer: Mods/scripts will fix it. They likely will fix 80% of your issues. (Hated using them but they did end up making x2-x3ap 10x larger in depth, story line and attributes).

So wait for a patch or get a mod to fix it.
graphicboy
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by graphicboy »

Tali$ wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 03:02 No idea if it's still garbage now
XR endgame still dead-ends and falls completely apart, and that's despite running it with a ton of mods to overcome its failings.
DaMuncha
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by DaMuncha »

the AI pathing is so bad. I've had a ship spend 30 minutes flying around a crate trying to pick it up, which then despawned because it took so long.
Just... another... bug.
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Masterdude420
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Masterdude420 »

lol first I was like, ok yeah man I can totally understand but so on.. then I saw your name "crazyinside" now I think you might be a troll.. but you have to understand some people are totally fine with it and hope more people like you will buy it to get to that version we all dream about.
MortisLegati
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by MortisLegati »

TemporalAnomaly wrote: Fri, 14. Dec 18, 23:38 year away then... egosoft run out of money and we NEVER get another X game. ... are then deprived of "OUR" game. ... not only will they fix the bugs, they will add content for years to come!
This is going to happen, eventually. The way Egosoft has been handling their releases implies heavily that they're tumbling forwards on the money they get from sales on to-be-completed games. X:R became a full-featured game right before X4 started getting development, most likely, and most likely because they were running out of money and needed something new to sell. This can work fine, if they can make their previous iteration acceptable before they start on a new one and begin relying on good-will again. If they trip up, the X series is dead. Or, well, if another developer manages to do a game with an economy simulation that rivals this one with a decent enough game in front of it.

They've been doing the Early Access thing without it being codified for years. They're taking heat right now because it's become painfully obvious at this point and concerns diehard fans because you can't tell exactly why Egosoft was running out of money. Did they work too much on Rebirth before starting X4? Or is it malice?
Ormac
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Ormac »

Looks like is back to an X3 feature patch model
getting 2 feature patches 7-8 weeks after release (and you have Christmas,New Year and Chiese New Year in the middle of that) is fine.
I would be hard pressed expecting the 2nd patch much earlier than has been indicated.

I don't quite like the version jump from 1.5 - 2.0. It's too similar to Rebirth Versioning which wasn't quite stated release until 2.5.
Suggesting with 2.0 that we fixed everything wrong with release 1.0. and Teladi Outpost didn't feel quite right until 3.5-3.6.
Home of Light worked as version 4.0 but your just adding it onto 3.6.


X4 also has DLCs so it nice to see some features being added also through regular patches.


-- Ormac
AlienM1nd
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by AlienM1nd »

AlienM1nd wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 02:51 should have gone a month early access to get those showstoppers.
To back up my statement, look here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tblxod-eLZs
This is as much keeping it real peeps you get out of the media producing part of america (see: california), and even that rare breed gave it a 5/10.
With the economy stall bug and AI fly through solid objects bugs fixed (two things I honestly don't believe nobody at ES saw if they did any testing of the final product at all) this would have easily be a 7/10. :-(
You only get a first impression once.
Well, it's water under the bridge now, but it says something when a X enthusiast (myself) can't decide if he will push the like button of an honest review on youtube of fear of the effect of this being the 5/10 mark being spread to further eyes.
letwolf
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by letwolf »

F*ck Betty ! We need missing options in UI, transfer crew, auto-trade for few selected items (NOT FOR ALL OR ONE-CLICK-BY ONE), loop manual trading, more crew control options (fire/hire via option menu, not with stupid comm) Commodity Logistics Software from x3tc, allowing us to make complex order queues for ships, NOT YOUR F*** BETTY, please.
Bubonosaure
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Bubonosaure »

MortisLegati wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:46
TemporalAnomaly wrote: Fri, 14. Dec 18, 23:38 year away then... egosoft run out of money and we NEVER get another X game. ... are then deprived of "OUR" game. ... not only will they fix the bugs, they will add content for years to come!
This is going to happen, eventually. The way Egosoft has been handling their releases implies heavily that they're tumbling forwards on the money they get from sales on to-be-completed games. X:R became a full-featured game right before X4 started getting development, most likely, and most likely because they were running out of money and needed something new to sell. This can work fine, if they can make their previous iteration acceptable before they start on a new one and begin relying on good-will again. If they trip up, the X series is dead. Or, well, if another developer manages to do a game with an economy simulation that rivals this one with a decent enough game in front of it.

They've been doing the Early Access thing without it being codified for years. They're taking heat right now because it's become painfully obvious at this point and concerns diehard fans because you can't tell exactly why Egosoft was running out of money. Did they work too much on Rebirth before starting X4? Or is it malice?
Then why not communicate ? Crowfunding to help with the extra miles ? Or just plain early access because they need the cash intake to move on. They all know we're passionate about this game. I'd gladly pay a 100€ to help fund a subgenre that has given me countless hours of fun, from X games to Freelancer to even Homeworld, Empyrion or No man's sky. I'd rather give 50-100€ to Egosoft than 30€ to EA and i'm not the only one. "Hi guys, this is Egosoft. Look, we've been working on X4 and it's looking great so far but the studio is starting to run into many economic problems. We believe that, with your help, we could make it the way we envisioned it". This is their mistake. They chose to not communicate. They could have made a dev blog with their current reasoning and have feedback, or a semi-public beta or what have you. Their strongest asset is their passionate community and they did not take advantage of it.

I'm playing a game where one of my destroyer patrolling randomly jumps into another sector and attacks Xenon stations with no warning and is attacked by invisible fleets on the radar. A game where large cargo haulers book trips for 1% of their haul with no option to actually control their behavior and circle around warpgates (???), a game where ship boarding is mainly fighting against the complete stupidity of everything (UI, your troops, allies) and wing control is so buggy and unresponsive you'd think this is an outdated X3 mod. A game where the UI has exactly the same issues as previous games : it's not thoughout for mass engagements and economy. Why not go for dettachable and customizable widgets on the map ? Why not have sub categories and different menus for different ship classes (XL+L/M/S/Station) ? Why no tick box for crew management ? No, let's put 200 people and that ship and make them manually click on each and everyone of them ! UI is such a pivotal and key component of X games. It needs to be a well oiled machine or else the game becomes unbearable to play after a while.

I'm sorry to sound so abrasive, and I definitely do not intent to jump at you. I just need to jump at something. The wall ? A Split ? Or maybe give me some of that space weed to calm my nerves after seeing every single trade ship crash into my wheat station because the waypoint (wth why not setup a zone instead ?) is in a module ! God damn it Egosoft ! This is not alright. Just as OP, seeing 1.5 and 2.0 feature list actually deeply concerned me because there are far more pressing issues than player shipyards to fix and I was hoping we'd actually hear about it from the devs themselves. We're gonna depend, again, on modders to actually fix many of the simple oversight in the game and each patch will be terrorizing because we'll have to update our mod list and pray that things still work.

So yeah ! X4 has so much potential but we're not there yet.
Last edited by Bubonosaure on Sat, 15. Dec 18, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.
DaMuncha
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by DaMuncha »

We definately need a employee roster
Just... another... bug.
Sentinel-Ghost
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Sentinel-Ghost »

To those shouting Early Access! as though its a wonderful idea...
Think a minute.

Because the X series is already in a niche of "complex economic galactic Sim" within the larger niche of space sim games the pool of 'regular' customers is not as large as for other genres. What this means is that once a game is in early access the bulk of purchases will be made within early access for that discounted price. Once the game is inevitable released and out of EA the somewhat limited pool of customers will have already been mostly dried up.

Fact is the majority of Early Access titles tend to fail, or require additional projects to fund the first project... It is a very risky thing for a developer to do.

Egosoft being such a small developer who generally build incredibly vast, ambitious and complicated games would not make a profit under early access - they would go bankrupt pure and simple.

Many are raging about the amount of bugs. HOWEVER unlike Bethesda, Ubisoft, Electronic Farts, Gearbox - Egosoft WILL deliver, they always have which is why this community is so - forgiving - of X4 Foundations issues. Because its happened time and time and time and time and time again. The fact that this community has stuck by and supported Egosoft this long should really tell you something.

...and no its not that we're all hopeless fanboys/gals.
Arghan
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Arghan »

Actually IMHO egosoft painted itsefl into a corner.
Most fans already know what X release mean. Not many people would buy early access because "oh crap, they do so much bugs on release, early access will be totally broken".
As many people would look at kickstarter "Holy crap, i'm not going to back something so buggy up. I will buy it year or so after I see if it was better than X:R".

So from their point of view what they did was the only thing they could to be able to finish this game.

I'm not saying this was the best way. IMHO this was what egosoft perceived by most reasonable way.
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by ApoxNM »

Sentinel-Ghost wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 16:35 HOWEVER unlike Bethesda, Ubisoft, Electronic Farts, Gearbox - Egosoft WILL deliver.
...and no its not that we're all hopeless fanboys/gals.
Yea, what like in 2-8 years we can expect a complete x4?
Gupster
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Re: "The" BUG LIST - and why I turned sour

Post by Gupster »

ApoxNM wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 16:54
Sentinel-Ghost wrote: Sat, 15. Dec 18, 16:35 HOWEVER unlike Bethesda, Ubisoft, Electronic Farts, Gearbox - Egosoft WILL deliver.
...and no its not that we're all hopeless fanboys/gals.
Yea, what like in 2-8 years we can expect a complete x4?
If x rebirth is anything to go by then yes, it will take some time before x4 is finished, i doubt it will take 8 years though. :gruebel:

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