[Ships] Heavy fighters balance: Quasar need some love

[Knight Phaeton]

TL;DR Quasar have no selling points over his heavy fighters opponents and needs some buffs

Let's compare heavy fighters that we have in game.

Quasar
1700 Hull
1 Shield (1400 Max)
4 Weapon mounts
229 m/s speed

Eclipse
4000 Hull
2 Shield (2800 Max)
4 Weapon mounts
214 m/s speed

Pulsar
1900 Hull
1 Shield (1400 Max)
6 Weapon mounts
(???) m/s speed (But not so different than previous two)

See it? Eclipse excel in tanking, Pulsar excel in damage dealing, while Quasar excel in nothing. Yes, it has slightly more speed (~7%) than Eclipse, but Eclipse has double the durability of Quasar. And they have practically the same cost.
With all that in mind, Quasar needs some selling point, in which it will outperform it's opponents. Maybe Egosoft should make it more agile and speedy, if tank and damage dealer roles amongst heavy fighters are already occupied. Maybe give him some other special trait... But something should be done.

And why I ask this? Because Quasar is beautiful! In my opinion, it is the most beautiful heavy fighter in X4. Eclipse design looks strange with little utility in it, Pulsar is not bad, but too rectangular, while Quasar is pretty perfect. Unfortunately, It has the lowest sum of stats of all three heavy fighters.

[Baldamundo]

Honestly all the fighters need a balance pass at the moment imo. It seems like the Eclipse (weapons and defence), Pulsar (lots of weapons), and Nodan (very fast but without sacrificing weapons or shield) seem like the only ships worth taking. Unless you just want the fastest ship possible, in which case take a Pegasus.

Or just use the Nemesis corvette, which is very manouverable, much more heavily armed, and somehow still much faster than 90% of fighters

[thanos]

Heh, the Paranid destroyer is much faster (both normal & travel speed) than most fighters.

I agree with your list above. Nodan pairs well with the Odysseus (it can keep up, and doesn't lose much firepower). Eclipse pairs well with the Argon destroyer (for the same reasons). Other fighters? I don't care, I don't see the point in them.

Yea, fighters need another balance pass. But so does everything, to be honest.

[csaba]

X games were never about balance. Buy one with the best stats or make it work with the best looking one.

It's not like it matters anyway. Any ship is better if the player flies it.

In an NPC squad you can put wathever. If you role play you might have to spend a bit more on replacements or need bigger fleets but at that point it hardly matters.

Paranid vessels are better in almost every ship category but I still fly a Buzzard instead cuase I like the design better. The Odysseus is way better than the other two Destroyers but I prefer the Behemoth or even the Phoenix over it. (Although I'm not a fan of the dome ships.)

[KextV8]

Paranid vessels are better in almost every ship category but I still fly a Buzzard instead cuase I like the design better. The Odysseus is way better than the other two Destroyers but I prefer the Behemoth or even the Phoenix over it. (Although I'm not a fan of the dome ships.)

Lol. The Paranid ships are the squishiest. Get blown to bits super easy. It's not clear cut which is the best. I like the cushion the Argon ships usually have as they tend to have more shield slots. I usually find myself getting Argon ships with Teladi shields and Paranid engines.

The only category I think the Paranid ships are best in is mining and trading. There the speed is often better than extra cargo space. I like their S courier and M miners.

Everyone has their own playstyle tho. If you like the 3 eye ships, go for it.

[Triu]

As many other posts have mentioned we need an overall balance, shields should regen consistently and based on the size of ship, shields/hull/hardpoints need another look. Small ships are superior for most cases, based on current shield regen, etc. I would like to see either, via game or mods, customizable hardpoints for ships, adjusting turret availablilty and giving up shield/hull etc, to add some customization, because as OP stated, some ships have superior qualities to others by default.

[BlackRain]

As many other posts have mentioned we need an overall balance, shields should regen consistently and based on the size of ship, shields/hull/hardpoints need another look. Small ships are superior for most cases, based on current shield regen, etc. I would like to see either, via game or mods, customizable hardpoints for ships, adjusting turret availablilty and giving up shield/hull etc, to add some customization, because as OP stated, some ships have superior qualities to others by default.

I do not agree that shields should regen consistently, the issue is that the capital ships just don't do enough damage overall so the fighters can swarm around them easily and pepper them without suffering any damage themselves. If their turrets were more successful in taking out fighters, it wouldn't be such an issue. Perhaps shield strength should be increased on capital ships though, especially to balance greater capital ship damage. However, fighters should be able to swarm a capital ship and take it out with enough of them or with the right weapons but with a reasonable loss of ships.

[Triu]

As many other posts have mentioned we need an overall balance, shields should regen consistently and based on the size of ship, shields/hull/hardpoints need another look. Small ships are superior for most cases, based on current shield regen, etc. I would like to see either, via game or mods, customizable hardpoints for ships, adjusting turret availablilty and giving up shield/hull etc, to add some customization, because as OP stated, some ships have superior qualities to others by default.

I do not agree that shields should regen consistently, the issue is that the capital ships just don't do enough damage overall so the fighters can swarm around them easily and pepper them without suffering any damage themselves. If their turrets were more successful in taking out fighters, it wouldn't be such an issue. Perhaps shield strength should be increased on capital ships though, especially to balance greater capital ship damage. However, fighters should be able to swarm a capital ship and take it out with enough of them or with the right weapons but with a reasonable loss of ships.

I only mentioned as a possible solution, I do think the regen rate should have some effect based on shield your using, but something needs to be balanced. Like in other posts, it's kinda rediculous you can solo an unescorted capital ship with a S ship, but this can be remedied in a number of ways. A fix to turrets, and maybe adding the possibility of defense drones to capital ships would be a good idea, OR forcing AI to dock defense ships onboard, would be a good solution. Although I would recommend adding different MK shields to difference classes, adjusting refresh rates, and whatnot.

[palm911]

As many other posts have mentioned we need an overall balance, shields should regen consistently and based on the size of ship, shields/hull/hardpoints need another look. Small ships are superior for most cases, based on current shield regen, etc. I would like to see either, via game or mods, customizable hardpoints for ships, adjusting turret availablilty and giving up shield/hull etc, to add some customization, because as OP stated, some ships have superior qualities to others by default.

I do not agree that shields should regen consistently, the issue is that the capital ships just don't do enough damage overall so the fighters can swarm around them easily and pepper them without suffering any damage themselves. If their turrets were more successful in taking out fighters, it wouldn't be such an issue. Perhaps shield strength should be increased on capital ships though, especially to balance greater capital ship damage. However, fighters should be able to swarm a capital ship and take it out with enough of them or with the right weapons but with a reasonable loss of ships.

i killed a behemoth with my starter ship, (granted it took some time) . but it was me with myself. using a mk2 railgun/minigun, or whatever is called. ) a sinble scout ship shouldnt take out a destroyer. lol.

[sartha]

The Quasar isn't the only ship in need of love. The entire balance of the ship spectrum is screwed up I find.

Fighters actually have the greatest balance of the whole thing, and they still aren't very well balanced.

Examples:
Light Fighter (1 gun slot): If you want speed, take the Paranid Pegasus, if you want combat take either of the Teladi ships, though the Kestrel is the superior one. Avoid the Elite as it's the slowest and has the second worst hull rating.
Medium Fighters (2 gun slots): For speed you want the Paranid Perseus, if you want combat you want either the Nodan or the Teladi Falcon. Avoid the Discoverer and Nova as both are weakest.
Heavy Fighters (3+gun slots): This is where the Argon shine, with the Pulsar, Eclipse and Quasar each having more guns than any other ship. The Paranid Theseus and Teladi Buzzard only have 3 guns but have the best armor of any fighters.

Corvettes: Only the Paranid have one, though it's meant to be equivalent to the bombers, I find it to be fundamentally different and serves a different purpose as more of a fighter-killer.
Bombers: The Teladi peregrine is faster than the Argon Minotaur, and has more shield slots if I remember well. I wouldn't bother with a Minotaur as a result.
Frigates: They are pretty much copy-pasted off of each other, however the Paranid Gorgon is the fastest while the Teladi Osprey has the highest armor rating. The Argon Cerberus is bad all-around.

Destroyers: I don't have complete data on these unfortunately as I haven't gotten that far into the game yet, however the Teladi have the best armor and the Argon have the worst armor.
Carriers: Same as destroyers with regards to incomplete data, in this case the Paranid have the best armor while the Argon still have the worst.

Miners & Gas Miners: For all miner variants (S, M and L), the Teladi have the best miners for quantity of cargo space while the Argon come close second while providing slight speed benefits. Paranid are only good for speed.
Transports (S & M size): Teladi are king for cargo capacity while the only non-teladi ships worth investing in would be the Couriers at S size for their speed advantage or the Demeter and Mercury sentinels specifically also for their speed advantages.

Freights (L size): Argon are king in this category in just about every way. Veles Sentinel, Sonra Sentinel, Incarcatura Vanguard, Shuyaku Vanguard, Incarcatura Sentinel and Shuyaku Sentinel rounds up the top 6 cargo capacities in the game.
If you prefer speed you sacrifice a lot of cargo capacity however with the Sonra Vanguard or any of the Paranid freighters which have the lowest cargo capacities in this category.

Construction Ships: No difference between racial types whatsoever.

That being said, pick whatever ship you want, the differences only really matter if you're min-maxing or trying to gain the maximum credits per hour or biggest bang for your buck. In the end, three of the worst ships will still beat one of the best ships in the same category in any mission type.

[bubbabenali]

Destroyers: I don't have complete data on these unfortunately as I haven't gotten that far into the game yet, however the Teladi have the best armor and the Argon have the worst armor.
Carriers: Same as destroyers with regards to incomplete data, in this case the Paranid have the best armor while the Argon still have the worst.

Obviously the best Destroyer is the Teladi Phoenix - just because it has no M-Landing pads and so it's escort will not be recalled by the AI Captain to dock after every single order the Destroyer executes.