Are we playing an alpha build?

[JakubCW]

Whilst watching obsidian ants stream before release I notice he was being given various alpha builds to play, now I wouldn’t expect egosoft would want us viewing an old build so I I am believing these were the most current versions of the game to that date... so they can’t have gone from an alpha state to a finished gold state in the space of a day now??

This game feel very unfinished and broken in many area’s which one would expect from an “early access/alpha build”.

Bit unfair to once again spend most of my game time fighting bugs and broken mechanics, can’t refund the game
Because of the 2 hour window so I’m stuck with £40 figurative paperweight which I could have spent on something that works..

Poor show egosoft.. poor show.

[Ashtronaut]

They shot themselves in the foot a bit by rushing it out due to demand from both the players and probably management/investor/whatever deadlines they set for themselves.

Personally i was frothing at the mouth to dive in to the game, I know it's a buggy mess with a lot of work needing to be done. I can overlook a rushed release as I've got some faith that these problems will be resolved eventually.

(No I'm not fanboying I'm just acknowledging the thirst i had for the game and accept that as far as I'm concerned what I've got is better than nothing.)

[Seon]

Still better than Rebirth's release, imo.

[Recon777]

Rebirth was so bad I didn't even get it. Was it eventually patched to fix most of its problems?
Is Egosoft known for patching the games after an initial buggy release? If so, then we'll probably be fine. If not... well, that would be terribly disappointing.

[MutantDwarf]

Rebirth was so bad I didn't even get it. Was it eventually patched to fix most of its problems?
Is Egosoft known for patching the games after an initial buggy release? If so, then we'll probably be fine. If not... well, that would be terribly disappointing.

Egosoft is well-known for releasing many patches with huge changes to the game after an initially buggy release, to the point where they usually add enough features that it could be considered an expansion.

Rebirth had a lot of different patches, and the current version of Rebirth has basically a completely different UI from the first version. A lot of the other things - but not some of the very core mechanics - that people disliked were also changed in the patches.

[Kadatherion]

It's a way better launch than Rebirth, and you can already see it's a way better game overall than Rebirth: Rebirth, no matter how better it works now, has never become a really fun game for most of us. But the state of the game at launch is what we have grown to expect from Egosoft. Given however how steep is the learning curve for X games, basically, the reason to play it know is to have a bit of fun in a not too invested playthrough to learn how it works (when it works... ). Really invested playthroughs have to wait a few patches, mods, and as such a few months at the very least.

[Liath]

While the release is better than X:R, I feel like tons of content was left out. The ships are bland and boring. The past games, the races had very distinct looks and specs. This iteration is so bland it feels like it is plain unfinished. The graphics are better in X4, but X:R's ship models were worlds better.
Also... where the guns at?
And modules. And... everything else that is missing?
And while in some ways I like the lack of a story, at the same time the story generally was like a tutorial and showed you the ropes. And that is even gone, so newbies to X won't have a flipping clue what to do.

I think we're playing a concept build. Maybe alpha. Engine is mostly not trash but there's no steak with the potatoes.

[Zealoth]

Maybe I'm one of the lucky few or something, but for me:

The game runs near flawlessly. I don't know if Vulcan somehow overrides Nvidia GPU and their Gsync greed and makes my freesync monitor work, but I've never had a game feel so goddamn SMOOTH fps wise. I'm literally sliding out of my chair while playing it and while my PC is not too shabby it is not a YouTuber rig. I load the game once and then it just works seamlessly. It doesn't hickup on gate transfer, it doesnt stutter when I land on a station or sit down in the chair. I just sit down, undock, aim up and FLOOR it. It feels so gud. The engine itself feels like bedrock to me. And it also looks to be pretty moddable(?) Adding station modules, ship modules, upgrades or ships themselves seems like it wouldn't be extremely hard (my hunch based guess)

So far the economy also feels way better. Bought a miner for silicon, then I got another trader to trade in silicon-based products. The economy seems to flow along, not just slowly fill up and stall like in X3

OFC this perspective is slightly skewed, since I was always was playing the merchant start in X3 and would only really do combat when I had something to FLEX with...an M7 Tiger was a nice start :3 Despite sinking riddiculous hours I don't think I've ever even captured a ship by boarding - why bother if I can just buy one from all that spacefuel sales? :3

I can clearly see the original menaces are joke right now and that combat is super meh.
Thats the most worrying part, since it's a)big part of the game and b)not trivially fixed. I can see it's somewhat based on the game design (IS vs OoS combat, way stronger hulls, significantly increased projectile speed, shield vs boost mechanic - you can no longer just strage dodge trivially, super tough hulls mean slagfests), computational limitations(silly IS turrets, AI pilots can't really display Ace dogfighting) Together it results in a combat system where you either are able to simply slag it out with the opponent/permamently out-turn him/get surrounded and die since you can no longer burst down enemies with crazy loadouts that kill your energy in 10s bursts and if they get a shot at you they will most likely hit due to such high projectile speeds.
This will is a conundrum that will require some real hair-loss-worthy thinking.

Anything else doesn't really bother me too much since it's just a matter of putting in work, more akin to cleaning up a house than designing one

TLDR: I'm hopeful. My hope is predicated upon thinking that Egosoft will continue working on this game (personally I think about it somewhat like Factorio or maybe more aptly Stellaris) and will listen to the community and implement various new game features, keep adding missions, modules, ships, game features (big ones, like Stellaris expansions do)
Since the new economy so far seems to be what I have been waiting for years (complex economy that is simulated from start to finish) I really hope they will work on enabling ecowhoring - finegrained controls on factories, traders, etc or at least work with modders to enable some of it

In case it looks like I'm fanboying:X4 was their last chance to win me back after Rebirth. While I don't think it's okay there is so manny little buglets in every corner, I am hopeful because the engine looks real solid to me. However, if Egosoft does a "good enough" on us all my goodwill will evaporate quicker than water under an atomic bomb. DON'T **** IT UP

Also, while I'm only speaking from interacting with the game as a player (didn't do source code analysis or anything like that) I'd say the engine is way modernised and could easily be relevant for years to come *cough* Stellaris expansions*cough* (although their engine is kinda a sad mess )

PS. Egosoft, please hire someone who knows how to do tutorials and mission descriptions and knows how to ease players into the game. My friend nearly refunded the game a few times yesterday because of how obtuse the PHQ plot is. It's been almost a DECADE since I was raging at X3. A lot of hate comes from how goddamn annoying it is to figure this game out. Hell, I KNEW it's gonna be like that and I still get pissed repeatedly.

[Alci]

well, the game is not feature complete, hopefully it won't be for 2-3 years, so technically, yes, it's probably alpha build

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

I did buy it on release day but ended up getting a refund, supposed to have HOTAS support but my thrust master just would work properly in this game, and less face it once you go with a HOTAS you are never going back to mouse and keyboard. I may buy it again in a few months when they fix the controls, bugs etc.

[peschinl]

hey look a thread full of people who never played X games before.

[reanor]

hey look a thread full of people who never played X games before.

Yeah...

[reanor]

hey look a thread full of people who never played X games before.

... also why Forums are so AWFULLY SLOW loading?

[JamesTheClarke]

hey look a thread full of people who never played X games before.

I know this is more an of a jest than earnest, but I do believe 2017/18 marks a general change in the attitude of gamers towards developers in many ways.

Most players tended to give certain companies a much more generous margin for error (especially if they are a smaller studio in the industry) than other companies in real life. Over a decade ago I was fine with X3 having major issues at launch because the studio just started their largest most ambitious project ever and it showed from the start what scale they are aiming for. While I never bought Rebirth I definitely defended it amongst my mates for having the guts to try out something new, even if it didn't pan out for quite some time.

It's been a very long time since these games and quite a few developers (Bethesda for example recently) just been leaning quite heavily on the trust of their dedicated fanbase to "just wait, good things are coming". The game industry as a whole, in general, has been fairly deceptive in the last decade and certain jokes such as "XYZ games are always a buggy mess at launch, lol" just kinda lost their appeal, at least to me. But maybe I'm just too jaded and old by now.

What I see right now with X4 is a fairly stable game with many quality of life improvements. But I also see a drastic reduction in scale and content at launch (half the major factions, less ship types variety, half the minor factions) when compared to its ten-year-old predecessor. The lack of a clear statement that these established major factions won't be sold as DLC at a later date does worry me a lot and assume its a contributing factor to people being frustrated at certain bugs more than they'd usually be because of what the gaming industry has taught us in recent years.

[SteveMill]

Whilst watching obsidian ants stream before release I notice he was being given various alpha builds to play, now I wouldn’t expect egosoft would want us viewing an old build so I I am believing these were the most current versions of the game to that date... so they can’t have gone from an alpha state to a finished gold state in the space of a day now??

This game feel very unfinished and broken in many area’s which one would expect from an “early access/alpha build”.

Bit unfair to once again spend most of my game time fighting bugs and broken mechanics, can’t refund the game
Because of the 2 hour window so I’m stuck with £40 figurative paperweight which I could have spent on something that works..

Poor show egosoft.. poor show.

Of course we are, it’s how Egosoft roll.

It’s a very promising alpha build though. Way better than XR.

[jasonbarron]

As SteveMiller just said of course we are lolol. I'm loving it despite all of it's janky, awkward buggy-ness though:)

[Nibel]

also why Forums are so AWFULLY SLOW loading?

so people who don't have patience will go away.

[Liath]

hey look a thread full of people who never played X games before.

I know this is more an of a jest than earnest, but I do believe 2017/18 marks a general change in the attitude of gamers towards developers in many ways.

Most players tended to give certain companies a much more generous margin for error (especially if they are a smaller studio in the industry) than other companies in real life. Over a decade ago I was fine with X3 having major issues at launch because the studio just started their largest most ambitious project ever and it showed from the start what scale they are aiming for. While I never bought Rebirth I definitely defended it amongst my mates for having the guts to try out something new, even if it didn't pan out for quite some time.

It's been a very long time since these games and quite a few developers (Bethesda for example recently) just been leaning quite heavily on the trust of their dedicated fanbase to "just wait, good things are coming". The game industry as a whole, in general, has been fairly deceptive in the last decade and certain jokes such as "XYZ games are always a buggy mess at launch, lol" just kinda lost their appeal, at least to me. But maybe I'm just too jaded and old by now.

What I see right now with X4 is a fairly stable game with many quality of life improvements. But I also see a drastic reduction in scale and content at launch (half the major factions, less ship types variety, half the minor factions) when compared to its ten-year-old predecessor. The lack of a clear statement that these established major factions won't be sold as DLC at a later date does worry me a lot and assume its a contributing factor to people being frustrated at certain bugs more than they'd usually be because of what the gaming industry has taught us in recent years.

I think you've nailed what I've been trying to say in a much more eloquent fashion. My first big burn was the release of Neverwinter Nights. After playing Baldur's Gate and Shadows of Amn, baldur's Gate 2, they released that buggy trash that had 1/4th the playtime and the story was so bad even the voice acting felt forced.
Had a few since then. SOE and PlanetSide (1, not 2, haven't even bothered with 2).
Egosoft's X games were always my fallback, Egosoft has obviously brilliant programmers and I'll admit this is my first pre-purchase and play on release I've done with them. X2 I saw well after release, but the eatures included were bangin. The ability to have the 2 smaller monitors was great. X3 kinda dumbed some of that down but still had solid story and factions, and flavor. X:R I got shortly after release and aside from the super-crashiness, and the skunk-and-chain issue, it was actually a solid game in the end with a lot of features that were great. Still did dumb down a bit though, I noticed. X:4 might just be my first experience with a first-day release, and maybe they've all been this bad or even worse.
But I'm a professional. I learn from each job I do, and I use each bit to improve the next and coming from the past X games you'd think that they'd be well polished prior to release, because they're artists that have learned and applied the past experience to the current project.
I don't stick a backup system on the same network as the production network, even for 10 minutes. Mustang doesn't give you a chassis with an engine, but no wheels and then add the body and wheels later. I just fail to see how software should be much different.
I do know that code isn't the same as a sculpture, or a car, or a network as these things are physical and software isn't. But I think by now you kinda understand what I'm attempting to convey.
And f Microsoft in the DOS days when that jerk said he considered all customers to be beta testers. and F us for letting that fly.