The silence from the devs is making things worse

[ajax34i]

I am starting to get the idea that there is a negative feeling towards DevNet and Testers going on, like they are the ones to blame for X Rebirth problems at launch.

It saddens me that people are slagging off members of the community that put so much into the X games. It really does.

Nah. This thread is a trolling thread, and a fishing for information by using insults to trigger defensive responses containing information thread.

Devs were insulted, publishers were insulted, testers were insulted... As CBJ pointed out, devs replied, but with no new info. Nobody from the publisher commented. And some of the mods defended the testers, which fueled the trolling and the drama even further, to provoke a response with info.

The testers did an admirable job. I think Egosoft told them this, and not just in the credits, so there's no need to defend against what is essentially libel.

IMO, CBJ's post above is rather final, and a pretty amusing checkmate against Warnoise, so I think the mods should help CBJ drop the mic by locking this thread. It's run its course, and the original topic of discussion has been officially answered; Egosoft will break the silence when they're ready to do so.

[Graaf]

One could describe maybe even story board an outline play through of what:

a) their expectation is in the next X Universe product assumed to be a founded in XR's way of things

b) the most awesome X Universe play through experience

I don't see a+b co-existing without a very large dose of X3 put in.

[ADMNtek]

I am starting to get the idea that there is a negative feeling towards DevNet and Testers going on, like they are the ones to blame for X Rebirth problems at launch.

It saddens me that people are slagging off members of the community that put so much into the X games. It really does.

Nah. This thread is a trolling thread, and a fishing for information by using insults to trigger defensive responses containing information thread.

Devs were insulted, publishers were insulted, testers were insulted... As CBJ pointed out, devs replied, but with no new info. Nobody from the publisher commented. And some of the mods defended the testers, which fueled the trolling and the drama even further, to provoke a response with info.

The testers did an admirable job. I think Egosoft told them this, and not just in the credits, so there's no need to defend against what is essentially libel.

IMO, CBJ's post above is rather final, and a pretty amusing checkmate against Warnoise, so I think the mods should help CBJ drop the mic by locking this thread. It's run its course, and the original topic of discussion has been officially answered; Egosoft will break the silence when they're ready to do so.

well it is not entirely true that we got no new info. we got this

You will be able to fly small and medium sized vessels More than three, too.

[Santi]

Nah. This thread is a trolling thread, and a fishing for information by using insults to trigger defensive responses containing information thread.

Devs were insulted, publishers were insulted, testers were insulted... As CBJ pointed out, devs replied, but with no new info. Nobody from the publisher commented. And some of the mods defended the testers, which fueled the trolling and the drama even further, to provoke a response with info.

The testers did an admirable job. I think Egosoft told them this, and not just in the credits, so there's no need to defend against what is essentially libel.

IMO, CBJ's post above is rather final, and a pretty amusing checkmate against Warnoise, so I think the mods should help CBJ drop the mic by locking this thread. It's run its course, and the original topic of discussion has been officially answered; Egosoft will break the silence when they're ready to do so.

Agree, thread went downhill pretty quickly, pains me that most participated in the Public Beta, and having first hand experience that you report bugs and feedback, but the last word is Egosoft, especially when issues from Home of Light that have been reported (retreat feature, ping pong with asteroids as example) still need a fix, people will knew better.

Anyway we got some information regarding flyable ships:

You will be able to fly small and medium sized vessels More than three, too.

And if nobody does so before hand, I will open a thread to post feedback on X Rebirth S and M ships as those are the classes that we are going to be flying in the next game.

*Ninjaed by ADMNtek

[ajax34i]

S + M ships we pilot
L and XL ships we command via captains, I believe is the consensus / expectation

EDIT: For S + M ships I'd like to see:

- self-repair capabilities
- travel support from capital ships for their escorts (escorts dock when the cap jumps or boosts)
- separate screens for radar and for info / details
- silent copilots that don't have windows cut into their jump suits

Although, without really knowing details about the game, it's hard to make suggestions. Egosoft could be moving towards a drones-only game:

- player can take shuttles to relocate to stations or to different capital ships
- player can take control of a capital ship's docked S, M fighters as ROVs, using a drone control interface from the bridge
- NPC's also operate in groups of Capital Ship + its URVs

I mean, X-Rebirth's lore points to these being possibilities, given that

Spoiler

Show

PMC creates fighter-sized drones during the plot.

The only way to get a ship to have AGI intelligence, without Xenon AGI, is to let a pilot (remote) control it.

Skunk was too small to be a drone carrier, and the fact that Yisha couldn't fly it while the player was busy drone-ing about really disabled the drone gameplay. Which, if I remember correctly, was THE thing that they hyped about X-Rebirth pre-release. Put the player on a capital ship, and the whole drone gameplay becomes a lot more doable.

[Warnoise]

Of course if the devs are not in a position to announce anything, i perfectly understand that, all what it takes is 1 single post from the devs to shut hundreds of whiners like me.

You got not one but two posts from developers right back on page one of this thread, three months ago, and there have been more since, yet you're still making the same accusations.

Sorry I missed those posts. I understand and Looking forward to the next announcement!

Nah. This thread is a trolling thread, and a fishing for information by using insults to trigger defensive responses containing information thread.

You gotta calm down with those assumptions. This thread speaks about concerns of lack interaction between devs and community. If you think this is a troll thread then you should follow the golden rule of not feeding the troll and simply don't post instead of throwing accusations

I may be wrong but that sounds exactly like the Public Beta. Everybody is able to contribute as is open, and is part of DevNet too.

I am starting to get the idea that there is a negative feeling towards DevNet and Testers going on, like they are the ones to blame for X Rebirth problems at launch.

I hope that is not the case, everyone of them work very hard for the X games, all of them, not only in X Rebirth, testing, voice overs, language localisation, loads of community content (bonus packs), and many of them are modders too. It saddens me that people are slagging off members of the community that put so much into the X games. It really does.

Only one person said that. But, you should understand that it is a natural reaction, not everyone knows exactly what happens behind the scenes. When you have a final product that is almost unplayable, the end user will naturally blame whoever took part in making that product. The sad part is not the fact they blame testers, the sad part is despite all the hard work of the testers and devs, the game is a mess.

Now Modders (bless them all for their hard work) made the game enjoyable for me, they really deserve a huge credit for literally CPRing the game out of a certain death.

[Nikola515]

That argument's been discussed before; countless other games and market data shows that "shiny / pretty graphics" trumps depth of gameplay or intelligent AI by a lot.

It's not lipstick on a pig, it's lipstick on a supermodel and an autographed calendar of her, vs. an average-looking guy showing you what's under the hood of a souped-up car, and a sheet of paper listing its upgrades.

EDIT: I mean, they're both valid as choices, but Egosoft would make a lot more money with the supermodel game than with the souped-up car game.

Player don't care about marketing but about game that is actually playable. I think some ugly person with a ton of makeup would sounds better(makeup can do miracles ). It look good from distance but it is still ugly inside. For example XR have all this awsome ships but without proper AI they are just useless. Ships don't have proper roles and their navigation sucks bad....No formations and it takes them 30m just to get to your location and than after hand full of hits they run like little b¥!#!... Drones are expensive to use and you will lose 20% in each battle becuse they are too stupid to run away from exploding ships. Also AI is so stupid that it uses Overun drones against fighters.... Managers are stupid no matter what they skill they have. Making stupid managers/crew even more stupid with a skill system was horrible idea. They are having problems using hybrid ships,they cant utilize ships cargo,it sends 3 ships to buy 100 E-Cell while one can do job, can't calculate usage of F-Cells vs profit..... Sinks are limited so is empire building......

None of this issues wore addressed even though people are complaining about it for ages. I must give credit to mods for fixing what Egosoft couldn't. And now people expect next game is going to fix everything If they couldn't fix this in this game what makes you think it will be fixed in next. It will probably be another reused XR with lipstick on it....Also them not willing to work with community wont make things much better

Edit: No matter how much lipstick (ship and stations) they add to the game it wont make diffrence. They need to start to build working core of the game so it can support everything around it. Them ignoring what community have been telling them makes me believe that next title won't be much improved over XR. Even if they add bridges and all that stuff in to the game it will be pointless without proper AI or UI. It will be same old XR just prettier

[CBJ]

we just want to understand how it happened.

Really? Or are you just waiting to dismiss what anyone actually involved with the project says as lies or incompetence, like you normally do?

ohh, didnt i just say in this very post i trust a person who was involved? i see you DO like insulting people

...followed by a long rant once again implying that the developers are incompetent, not telling the truth, and ignore their customers.

Oh, the irony. You still seem to believe that it is reasonable for you to be insulting and contemptuous towards the developers, yet still expect them to engage with you. Here's a hint: they won't.

Incidentally, the same applies to your attitude towards other forum users who don't happen to agree with you.

[Corbet]

I really liked their "Making of X Rebirth" video series and small sneak peeks before DLC releases. It would great to get something similar while waiting official announcement. I guess they already showed a picture of improved rendering some time ago.

Well, anyway. Can't wait to hear more about their upcoming project.

[mr.WHO]

None of this issues wore addressed even though people are complaining about it for ages. I must give credit to mods for fixing what Egosoft couldn't. And now people expect next game is going to fix everything If they couldn't fix this in this game what makes you think it will be fixed in next. It will probably be another reused XR with lipstick on it....Also them not willing to work with community wont make things much better

You actually have a good point. Despite the fact that many important things got changed/upgraded/fixed from 1.0 to 4.0, there is still as many things broken, despite mutiple reports:
- Assault URVs not working in zone
- Sucellus not using it's main gun, because it always make broadside approach
- Pirate trade ships not hidden with fake IFF (despite reporting this in 4.0 beta)
- drones in general beign useless with vanilla scripts
- radar/trade information sharing the same monitor
- not being able to call skunk passengers from space
- not being able to hire ship crew at SY when buying the ship
- broken retreat script that turn normal battle into rabbit chase...where everyone is a rabbit everyone crazy jump all arround the sector (again reported in 4.0, yet they still released it)
- not working missile ammunition system for capships (either scrap it or make it working)
- fighters beign useless if the don't have "Sentinel" in name and completely useless again anything that use Plasma/JET (best anti-fighter ,one-shot killer weapon)
- generic mission still spawn generally the same boring attackwaves, despite the fact that with 4.0 their expanded the variety of fighters used in generic mission - oh I would wish to see on rare case Xenon I spawn.

However to bring the justice to Egosoft they did several good fixes:
- fixed to be able to comm NPC from space and call SY from outside the SY zone
- fixed that you could isse order to ships outside skunk squad (ohh the horror of constant juggling from and out of the SKunk squad, the game was totally unplayable for me)
- fixed that trade ships didn't have to be in Skunk squad to be visible in trade menu
- added several new cokpits (damn I hate stock cokpit!)
- scrapped retarder highway minigames and speed up super-highways
- added ability to buy S and M size fighters (still useless because not working carrier logic)
- it might be my imagination, but somehow Balors now actually fire their missiles effectively against targets that are in from of them (they shared the broadside syndrome with Sucellus).
- finally with 4.0 added posibility to issue command to multiple ships
- probably many other things that were useless to me but great for other players

[bambikaka]

we just want to understand how it happened.

Really? Or are you just waiting to dismiss what anyone actually involved with the project says as lies or incompetence, like you normally do?

ohh, didnt i just say in this very post i trust a person who was involved? i see you DO like insulting people

...followed by a long rant once again implying that the developers are incompetent, not telling the truth, and ignore their customers.

Oh, the irony. You still seem to believe that it is reasonable for you to be insulting and contemptuous towards the developers, yet still expect them to engage with you. Here's a hint: they won't.

o.O rant? where? there was an honest question you try to shovel out with saying its an insult. now THIS is disrespectful. there was no insult. I've just asked a question. isnt that true and isnt that a fact that since the first x title ppl asked for more diverse pilotable ships? wasnt this the very reason X3 evolved to what it is today? and isnt that also a fact that though you knew this for some like 15 years you still thought one ship will be just fine? where is the insult in this? or in that ppl wanted more systems, more races, more weapons... and after 15 years you thought less systems, less races, less weapons will be just fine. why dot you ANSWER instead of crying disrespect? ahh, well, you dont have to, this is your forum, we dont have any mean to demand answers, but then dont be surprised ppl dont trust you and think you are incompetent. every effect has a cause...

Here's a hint: they won't.

incidentally this topic is not from me and its all about that "they won't" engage with anybody. this was quite an own goal...

[Killjaeden]

Insulting devs has turned into an internet sport in the last years unfortunately...

You will be able to fly small and medium sized vessels More than three, too.

Did you hear that people? We will be able to fly at least 4 different ships wohooo /sarcasm

If someone suggests a small improvement based on what is already there then it might be possible to do something with it, but if they propose a major design change then there is probably no option but to park the idea for later consideration, possibly even until some future game.

I'm curious, how early did the voluntary testers get involved / did get a hand on a build (aproximately)?

[Santi]

o.O rant? where? there was an honest question you try to shovel out with saying its an insult. now THIS is disrespectful. there was no insult. I've just asked a question. isnt that true and isnt that a fact that since the first x title ppl asked for more diverse pilotable ships? wasnt this the very reason X3 evolved to what it is today? and isnt that also a fact that though you knew this for some like 15 years you still thought one ship will be just fine? where is the insult in this? or in that ppl wanted more systems, more races, more weapons... and after 15 years you thought less systems, less races, less weapons will be just fine. why dot you ANSWER instead of crying disrespect? ahh, well, you dont have to, this is your forum, we dont have any mean to demand answers, but then dont be surprised ppl dont trust you and think you are incompetent. every effect has a cause...

People asked for landing on stations, first person movement, ship interiors, bigger sectors, more automated systems, less nested menus,less micromanagement, pizza and a hard boiled egg too. And the opposite, of all that I enumerated as well.

When doing new things instead of the copy/paste usual in sequels, you are mean to do mistakes. Then you take feedback from that and try again to get a better product next time.

What you propose is bigger X3 AP, not very imaginative and definitely quite a boring proposition if there is not new stuff to do. To be honest modders have already beat you to it, plenty of "more of anything" in the modding section.

Tell you what, I do not want "more of everything". I want a new game.

[Graaf]

...and definitely quite a boring proposition if there is not new stuff to do.

Honestly, removing the stuff we could do, gave us Rebirth. Boring and not much to do.

Tell you what, I do not want "more of everything". I want a new game.

But you already got a new game: Rebirth.

But hey, maybe another new game, using only the 3 good things from Rebirth: the Engine, the expanded resource requirement for production and shipyards actually using resources to produce items. And then everything from X3, added with (some of) the improvements from the 2015-patch thread.

And if you don't like the sound of it, don't buy it and stick with your precious Rebirth.

[CBJ]

I'm curious, how early did the voluntary testers get involved / did get a hand on a build (aproximately)?

Those who wish to join DevNet do so simply by ticking a box in their forum profile. From there there are instructions on how to go about signing and submitting and NDA. And for those who took those steps, an invitation announcement was posted which people could reply to, indicating their availability.

Almost 200 people did that and were allocated to teams according to the preferences they had expressed. Naturally enough, since these were volunteers and circumstances and priorities change, not all of those people actually contributed to the testing, but the contributions of those that did ranged from a handful of reports to, in a couple of cases, well over a thousand.

[ajax34i]

Wow, over 1000!

Hey, idea: for the next game's credits, put the testers' names in a word cloud.

[StoneLegionYT]

Worsting Fing Developers Ever!

No I'm just joking. Sadly I found Egosoft to be a bit on the silent side when developing their new titles. This has been sadly a thing they done for a long time sort of like Sean Murray haha.


That being said I do hope their working on a X4 series. I really hope it goes back to the routes. If walking on stations and crap exist I will not be mad but don'ti over waste your time with that. Remember in X3 Series what we liked and wanted was an empire that we could automate.

You can see games more and more like Factorio, Minecraft Modded, and many survival games are slowly adding the whole manufacturing and trading industry in their games. It's going be a good time to come out with something like this again. Hopefully before something big randomly just shows up.

I do hope the developers / Egosoft at their next meeting talk about transparency more. It's becoming the new age of game development. You guys are amazing when it comes to communication outside of that for your titles. Let's see you move it up one more step for a brighter and more modern future.

Also their support for their titles is amazing. Even though X3 did not get the update we were hoping it would it did get a small fix tiny fix. I think if X3 came out with a mini Expansion it would actually do decent in sales but I don't see that happening nor the update anymore sadly.

[vadiolive]

well its hard to accepty because i realy like XR over X3

http://steamspy.com/dev/Egosoft
but against this fact .....

[mr.WHO]

http://steamspy.com/dev/Egosoft

I was like - Ara Fell - "Huh? Egosoft went for hand held RPGs?"
Then on Steam I noticed that developer name was "Stegosoft Games"

[StoneLegionYT]

Yeah I know some people live Rebirth a lot more then X3 but I feel the majority on this site does enjoy X3 more.

That being said I'm actually amazed about X3 Stats:

http://steamcharts.com/app/2820#3m

This is rebirths:

http://steamcharts.com/app/2870#3m

Rebirth of course has a few extra players but many players don't use the steam version. I don't even know if the cubelite runs via steam mode and counts.

Either way it shows how a very old game still has people playing it.