Trump

[mrbadger]

We had 'Brexit' (hate that name...), and our main political parties are tearing themselves apart using it as an excuse for in fighting that they've wanted to do for years, but needed an an excuse to hide behind while they did it.

I wonder what the Republican party will look like three years after Trump wins, and it does look like he can.
Even if he doesn't win, I imagine all sorts of knives will be drawn under the cover of his somewhat eccentric leadership.

They did kind of bring it on themselves by encouraging the Tea Party.

Remember, Emperor Augustus Germanicus was crazy popular with the ordinary people of Rome.

[Timsup2nothin]

The sad truth is that Dippy Don
Ain't worth a tenth of Humayun Khan

Trump won't win. The more people look at him, the more revolted they will be. His core supporters will let him get away with anything, but he can't expand that base enough to win.

[Masterbagger]

The sad truth is that Dippy Don
Ain't worth a tenth of Humayun Khan

Trump won't win. The more people look at him, the more revolted they will be. His core supporters will let him get away with anything, but he can't expand that base enough to win.

Chris Stevens
Sean Smith
Glen Doherty
Tyrone Woods

If you want to use dead Americans to push politics it can go both ways. What Hillary said about why those men died in her private emails was not what she told their families. She lied to their faces.

[Morkonan]

...
Trump won't win. The more people look at him, the more revolted they will be. His core supporters will let him get away with anything, but he can't expand that base enough to win.

Trump is the kind of candidate that can win if people keep saying to themselves "Oh, he can't win."

All he needs to do is get a couple of swing-states that aren't already on leaning towards his side and then end up with Hillary losing a couple. Then, he's in, and woe-be-us...

I really think that it is "that close" right now. That may change and I hope it does. But, I'm not relishing the alternative, either. (Still, I'd vote for a used roll of duct-tape before I'd vote for Trump, purely on moral grounds if for no other reason. At least I can trust the duct-tape not to be evil...)

[Len5]

People that hate Trump fear that he, if elected, will be the worst president ever, but I think they're more afraid he will do a great job.

[Timsup2nothin]

Chris Stevens
Sean Smith
Glen Doherty
Tyrone Woods

If you want to use dead Americans to push politics it can go both ways. What Hillary said about why those men died in her private emails was not what she told their families. She lied to their faces.

See, made up stuff like this isn't really an effective defense for Trump. You can cite "this reliably false slanderer says this about Clinton" all day long and not change the fact that the greatest indictment of Donald Trump falls directly out of his own mouth every time he opens it.

Ads running on Fox showing Fox personalities saying bad things about Clinton would perhaps be effective, except that everyone watching them already knows the "facts" by heart. Running those ads anywhere else is pointless, because everyone but Fox viewers will immediately say "well, that's probably a lie." But ads running everywhere featuring clip after clip after clip of Trump himself being disgusting will be effective. If they aren't we deserve what we get.

[Mightysword]

They did kind of bring it on themselves by encouraging the Tea Party.

That much is true, but only half of the problem. If one to consider who give birth to Trumpism, well, a birth need both an egg and a sperm right? If the Republican is the egg donor because they allowed the Tea Party to take over their party, the Sperm donor would actually be progressive liberal.

To make an example, I know an acquaintance who said she will never vote for Trump because she believes he's a wingbag. When asked does that mean she disagree with Trump or that Hilary will represent her better, guess what is her answer: she actually share most of the stand point that Trump had brought up, and Hilary in little way represent her interest. So ... why is this contradiction.


Simple answer: Trump is not a problem, he's the symbol that's problem exist. Problems that have been constantly brushed aside and swept under the rug. I don't know how it is in Europe, but the censorship in the US for the last 5-6 years is something very disturbing, because it's not the government that's doing the censoring. I have no fear of the NSA, because I don't believe government censorship is that effective in this day and age with the kind of communication tools we have, but also because exactly we have those tools, society self-repression is something far more powerful. A public speaker has her speech cancel due to protest of her past view, someone made an off-color remark "off the job" see a facebook/twitter campaign to be fired from the job because it "doesn't reflect the company value" ...etc... have been happening at alarming frequency.

Look at the Brexit thread on this very forum and you'll see plenty of examples. When concern from one side arise, they're not addressed seriously by the other side, rather it devolves into a "public shaming" of each others, the kind of like "you only imagine those problem because you're this and that" - replace this and that with all the derogatory word that can be used for a 21st human being and you get the idea. Up until now, it's pretty clear who is winning the battle, and it's the progressive/liberal side ...


Then come Trump. I won't be surprise if many will see him as their hero (in fact, that's what people said last year), hero because he finally says something they can not say without society's retaliation. I don't think people are stupid enough to not realize the kind of man Trump is (and that is an opportunistic arshole unfit for a president) but then you have to ask, in their circumstance what are the choices available to them?

- They can ignore Trump and accept the fact that their concern, opinion will forever be silent.

- They can join Trump, and use him as the mouth piece for their concern even if they know full well their cause is being used.

Not an easy choice. Again, look at the Brexit debate, I think it's pretty clear now that the concern of the Leave Camp was nothing more but fuel to serve the ambition of some political elites, and I doubt at no one among the Leave Voter didnt know they were being used. But then, after years of having their concern was ignored, and have to endure name calling and public shaming from the progressive wing ... what other choice do they have?


And I think that's also the reason why there is a global rise in right wing element, after decade of social engineering and take an aggressive stance on progressive, we probably have this false sense of paradise because rarely anyone was allowed to speak anything in dissent. But, stopping people from saying what they want and having them actually change their thought process is two different things. That is why, again, Trump is not a problem, he's simply symbolize the problems that have always existed, the very same one that we had been pretending they don't exist.

So yeah, thanks to the good work from BOTH the left and the right, we now have Trump as a presidential candidate, in a way the saying "you reap what you sow" has never been more appropriate in politic before.

[clakclak]

But, it does requires a "fair" commitment from all member. I forgot which country it is in particular (maybe Norway, Netherlands or Denmark not sure) that a couple year back I read a report that their cut in defense is so deep that they don't have enough money to even train and buy parts to maintain the current army, much less any prospective of modernizing the force. And it's not like because they face an economy crisis either, their social system by all mean, on bar or better than the US's, for me that's just scandalous.

That does sound like us, the Dutch. [...]

Could also be us. We have some "slight" problems at the moment.

Typically german: "We want everything, but only if it doesn't cost anything."

It is quite bad actually: Germany’s army is so under-equipped that it used broomsticks instead of machine guns]

And on our great co-operation with the dutch army (which itself, like you said seems to be in some trouble): "[...] weapons they were meant to train Kurdish fighters on got stuck in Germany because a Dutch military plane — brought in because no functioning German aircraft was available — broke down.[...]"

It seems like anything that comes somwhat close to one of our military facilities simply brakes down immediately.

[Masterbagger]

Chris Stevens
Sean Smith
Glen Doherty
Tyrone Woods

If you want to use dead Americans to push politics it can go both ways. What Hillary said about why those men died in her private emails was not what she told their families. She lied to their faces.

See, made up stuff like this isn't really an effective defense for Trump. You can cite "this reliably false slanderer says this about Clinton" all day long and not change the fact that the greatest indictment of Donald Trump falls directly out of his own mouth every time he opens it.

Ads running on Fox showing Fox personalities saying bad things about Clinton would perhaps be effective, except that everyone watching them already knows the "facts" by heart. Running those ads anywhere else is pointless, because everyone but Fox viewers will immediately say "well, that's probably a lie." But ads running everywhere featuring clip after clip after clip of Trump himself being disgusting will be effective. If they aren't we deserve what we get.

Here's a link with hillary's email to chelsea on Sep. 11 telling her the attack was carried out by an al-qaeda like group.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/10/2 ... i-hearing/

Here is a link to a phone call she had with the prime minister of Egypt on Sep. 12. She states she knew the attack was terrorism and not a protest over a video.

http://benghazi.house.gov/sites/republi ... b%2079.pdf

Here is a link to the statement she made on Sep. 14 when the victims arrived in the states.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013 ... 197780.htm

And this is what she said:

We’ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing to do with

Made up, sure. I suppose the rest of the concerns about the clintons like the foreign money for favors, the concealment and attempted destruction of federal records, the breach of classified materials on her server are all just part of that vast right wing conspiracy. I'm sure the thousands of refugees she wants to import won't be like the ones raping up a storm in Europe either. I don't care if Trump says mean things. He isn't worse than that.

[Timsup2nothin]

Is the idea that a protest over a video can be terrorism really so complicated that Texans can't follow it?

Basically, by all fact based reports, several groups in several countries had plans perking along waiting for a useful triggering event. Some would have gone off just because it was 9/11. Some went off because it was 9/11and some idiot thought it would be fun to provoke them. Sorting out which were which wasn't the highest priority at the time, nor should it have been.

But of course armchair quarterbacks always would have thrown the touchdown. And hopefully we will be able to keep the Republicans in their armchairs, because the last time they actually took to the field they botched pretty much the entire world.

[Masterbagger]

Is the idea that a protest over a video can be terrorism really so complicated that Texans can't follow it?

Basically, by all fact based reports, several groups in several countries had plans perking along waiting for a useful triggering event. Some would have gone off just because it was 9/11. Some went off because it was 9/11and some idiot thought it would be fun to provoke them. Sorting out which were which wasn't the highest priority at the time, nor should it have been.

But of course armchair quarterbacks always would have thrown the touchdown. And hopefully we will be able to keep the Republicans in their armchairs, because the last time they actually took to the field they botched pretty much the entire world.

This was sent to her on Sep. 12
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content ... 015111.pdf

Page 6:

Libyan security officials believe that the attack was carried out by forces of the Islamist militia group calling itself the Ansar al Sharia brigade; working out of camps in the Eastern suburbs of Benghazi.

These officials do believe that the attackers having prepared to launch their assault took advantage of the cover provided by the demonstrations in Benghazi protesting an internet production seen as disrespectful to the prophet Mohammed.

It was an actual terrorist group with a plan. The video was irrelevant in every way except that it created a crowd the attackers could use to mask their movement. That terrorist group even claimed credit for carrying out the attack. She still blamed a video.

It's funny you should wisecrack about Republicans when Hillary voted for the Iraq war, the current president reneged on a campaign promise to end the Afghan war, and has just this month committed more troops there. Libya is a failed state because hillary pushed for US intervention and obama signed off on it. Syria is a disaster that both of them wanted to lead the US into. Both Bill and hillary have a record of supporting US backed foreign regime changes. They are too dangerous to be in control of the military. The democrats are just as bad about making wars that don't help America.

[Timsup2nothin]

I find it absolutely hilarious that you can't seem to follow something that has been said IN SOMETHING YOU QUOTE.

ONE more time.

As the info that YOU cited says.

The Libyans said a TERRORIST group used the cover of the PROTESTS to launch their attack.

Man, I hate that I'm gonna get kvetched by a moderator for appearing to call you stupid, but I'm really trying to figure out how you can seem to not get it when YOU YOURSELF are linking the material.

Is this some sort of "if I act REALLY stupid someone will call me stupid" trolling move, and I'm falling for it?

[Terre]

Please calm it down.

[mrbadger]

People that hate Trump fear that he, if elected, will be the worst president ever, but I think they're more afraid he will do a great job.

I doubt it, if for no other reason that he has zero political experience.
It does seem clear he is parroting what a lot of Americans think, and they are liking it, so the voter base is there.

But the lack of political experience means he has no allies in the establishment, no-one who owes him a thing, or might do anything other than try to destroy him.

I think at best he'd be a lame duck president who achieves nothing.

[Usenko]

I think at best he'd be a lame duck president who achieves nothing.

I can think of another scenario that's possibly more likely than that - a lazy president who prefers to "subcontract" the job out to "experts" in particular areas.

The question then becoming "Are the 'Experts' any good?"

[mrbadger]

So in essence the corporization of government.

Next up, the events of the unincorporated man (Dani Kollin, Eytan Kollin) become real.

[Graaf]

I think at best he'd be a lame duck president who achieves nothing.

I can think of another scenario that's possibly more likely than that - a lazy president who prefers to "subcontract" the job out to "experts" in particular areas.

The question then becoming "Are the 'Experts' any good?"

Does that give us a new show? The Apprentice: The Presidential Edition!

[clakclak]

The best thing to come out of this election so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM6WbUw7Bs

[Masterbagger]

See, made up stuff like this isn't really an effective defense for Trump.

Is the idea that a protest over a video can be terrorism really so complicated that Texans can't follow it?

The Libyans said a TERRORIST group used the cover of the PROTESTS to launch their attack.

You have said a different thing each time. It can't be that hard to just accept that hillary lied about this when she has told so many other lies. The difference here is that lying about landing under sniper fire in Bosnia didn't betray families and cause them additional grief.

[Timsup2nothin]

You have said a different thing each time. It can't be that hard to just accept that hillary lied about this when she has told so many other lies. The difference here is that lying about landing under sniper fire in Bosnia didn't betray families and cause them additional grief.

I surrender. It HAS to be just trolling. You can't be for real. Even in Texas you couldn't survive. Make up stuff freely, I won't bother to contradict you any more.