Is this game worth getting?

[Graaf]

There's still plenty of competition with NPC traders since they reserve trades too, just like the player does. If you want to trade the really profitable stuff you have to monitor the market closely & reserve goods pretty much as soon as they roll off the production line.

Find I need to pay much closer attention to the market in XR (particularly to production cycles & resource levels of the stations I trade with) to get the best results out of playing as a trader & I find that a much more satisfying way to play as a trader than I could in the old games.

People praise Rebirth for not being another X:spreadsheet, just to have a statement like this.

Not only this, but if a player wants further discounts and deals it requires a lot of hand on exploring and manipulating. There are more opportunities to manipulate the market in XR which requires much more thought and planning. You can hack factories, steal goods, manipulate stations for discounts, etc.

I'm a trader, not a pirate. Hacking, stealing and manipulation aren't interesting to me. And I don't like management much either.

It seems to me you are making quite a big deal about ships getting somewhere on time as some kind of competition.So what? In my opinion this is quite an arbitrary means of creating competition. Even in life, when running a business or trading, you don't worry about your transportation truck arriving at a business on time to make a deal. That is nonsense. XR is a much more realistic approach with contracts being reserved once taken.

It may be more realistic, but it doesn't make good gameplay. Good thing X is singleplayer because this will never work in an online environment.

[BlackRain]

Well I disagree. Also, I only mentioned a few ways to manipulate the market, there are others which are not combat or piracy related

[GCU Grey Area]

People praise Rebirth for not being another X:spreadsheet, just to have a statement like this.

Don't know why anyone would say that. If anything there's far more data available for the player to use to make an informed decision on what to trade & when. In X3 the only data you had access to for NPC factories was stock levels & prices. In XR you still get that, but also have data on consumption rates of resources, production rates, amount of time until the current production cycle completes, amount of time until resources are depleted & efficiency bonuses due to station components, specialists & secondary resources. If you're playing as a trader it's a goldmine of useful info.

[Santi]

In short, it all boils down to having options. The past games had a lot more options on pretty much every aspect of gameplay. And it's the wide variety of options that draws in a much wider audience of players. Limit the options and you limit your potential buyers to those who like those few options. And the bottom line is this is what has caused the drastic decrease in buyers and players, and even forum goers, of Rebirth compared to previous games.

You may have forgotten, but X Rebirth was a broken, buggy release, and till this day has a score of 33 for critics and 3.2 for players in metacritic, on top of a Steam tag of Mostly negative reviews (with a red thump down), and a breakdown of 3285 negative reviews compare to 1496 positive reviews. Blaming the options in the game, for the drastic decrease in buyers and players is kind of unrealistic to say the least.

As for forum goers, you cannot be serious, you always get a massive rush of people creating new accounts and logging in to ask questions and ask for support after release, remind me, how many days were the official forums down after release? And lets not talk about the carnage and hate that followed when the forums came back online. Not a pretty place, no.

[Graaf]

You may have forgotten, but X Rebirth was a broken, buggy release, and till this day has a score of 33 for critics and 3.2 for players in metacritic, on top of a Steam tag of Mostly negative reviews (with a red thump down), and a breakdown of 3285 negative reviews compare to 1496 positive reviews. Blaming the options in the game, for the drastic decrease in buyers and players is kind of unrealistic to say the least.

That negative score is because most of the consumers on launch day couldn't play it on release and had to wait 6 months to get a somewhat working product.

But despite that people are asking if its worth it, they are told not to look at the launchday-data, people still buy Rebirth and yet the amount of players keeps trickling down. Now why is that?

As for forum goers, you cannot be serious, you always get a massive rush of people creating new accounts and logging in to ask questions and ask for support after release, remind me, how many days were the official forums down after release? And lets not talk about the carnage and hate that followed when the forums came back online. Not a pretty place, no.

People were told they were buying a finished product and received a barely working Alpha. Sorry, but I can't blame them for being upset about it.

[Nikola515]

Again the debate goes into much detail trying to justify the position of one vs the other. I said before, both systems have flaws in its vanilla state, whereas the XR one has a different concept which is much better than the previous one. Saying it does not work, is incorrect, saying managers dont work is incorrect.

I still don't see why this would be the problem or why is it is so hard to explain..... Unless you can't ; ) And again nobody is saying that manager AI is not working but it suck pretty bad.... Even you said it yourself that you use them only for mining.... Anyway only problem i see that this opinion (best buy/sell from X3) would give player huge advantage over market do to limit of mentally r******* AI But than again that AI have unlimited money as well as unlimited ships (some of ther ships come out of thin air) also their stations fix them self out of thin air... Player needs to pay for all that so having more efficient way to trade is necessary....Especially if you have 40 stations and don't have time to micromanage every small trade.... I can't have my manager spending 500 f-cells to sell or buy 100 E-Cells.... If this is ok for you that AI act this way than i dont have anything else to say

Edit: Just to make something clear.... I don't want to replace auto trading that XR have i just want to add extra options for stations. Like assign a ship a single job to sell or buy wares for best price. As well as limit cargo.... So you can tell manager not to send ships unles cargo is 50% (each ship individual ) So for those who like auto trading they can get it and those who want to get most of our stations proffit should have more opinions to do so

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

People were told they were buying a finished product

Nope, they were told that they are buying a product which will be patched and filled with lot of free stuff after release. I think that it was mentioned in several interiews, and we knew of some plans before the game was officially released (additional commands, a way of commanding your ships to attack a specific module, for example).

[plynak]

People were told they were buying a finished product

Nope, they were told that they are buying a product which will be patched and filled with lot of free stuff after release. I think that it was mentioned in several interiews, and we knew of some plans before the game was officially released (additional commands, a way of commanding your ships to attack a specific module, for example).

Oh really? Then show me a screenshot of the Steam store where it tells us the game is unfinished and will be patched. Really would like to see that.

[Nikola515]

People were told they were buying a finished product

Nope, they were told that they are buying a product which will be patched and filled with lot of free stuff after release. I think that it was mentioned in several interiews, and we knew of some plans before the game was officially released (additional commands, a way of commanding your ships to attack a specific module, for example).

As far as i know game like that are in early access;) What happened happened... No reason why to beat on dead horse....

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

They said that Early Access came too late, it wasn't an option.

People were told they were buying a finished product

Nope, they were told that they are buying a product which will be patched and filled with lot of free stuff after release. I think that it was mentioned in several interiews, and we knew of some plans before the game was officially released (additional commands, a way of commanding your ships to attack a specific module, for example).

Oh really? Then show me a screenshot of the Steam store where it tells us the game is unfinished and will be patched. Really would like to see that.

Search yourself Iam done with this, as the game was released already. To be continued™ until X4 is announced and we have some solid info, then I will hoard the links again and bits-and-pieces of info again. Or maybe not. Depends on mood and atmosphere of the trialers for that upcoming game.

[plynak]

So in other words you again are not telling the truth and when asked for a proof you evade the answer. Why am I not surprised...

Thanks God we have Steam refunds now and such a scam will not happen again. And speaking of X4, good luck with that. I really doubt anyone will be willing to buy it after this.

[BlackRain]

So in other words you again are not telling the truth and when asked for a proof you evade the answer. Why am I not surprised...

Thanks God we have Steam refunds now and such a scam will not happen again. And speaking of X4, good luck with that. I really doubt anyone will be willing to buy it after this.

People will absolutely buy the next X game. I doubt Egosoft will make the same mistake again and they have been working very hard to improve the game and I imagine are working very hard at whatever is next. People buy and complain about games all the time, but keep buying and complaining about it. The X series is unique and I think people will be willing to purchase another one, perhaps with some hesitancy, but they will nonetheless.

[Ketraar]

I hope people can restrain themselvs to not derail this topic with the same old bickering about the launch.

I still don't see why this would be the problem or why is it is so hard to explain..... Unless you can't ; )

I did, repeatedly in fact.

And again nobody is saying that manager AI is not working but it suck pretty bad....

Well you were saying just that and on top of lack of controls. I just chimed in to add some needed salt to the idea that everything is broken, trying to add a different perspective on how things are in relation to the so acclaimed "old days".

I don't want to replace auto trading that XR have i just want to add extra options for stations. Like assign a ship a single job to sell or buy wares for best price. As well as limit cargo.... So you can tell manager not to send ships unles cargo is 50% (each ship individual ) So for those who like auto trading they can get it and those who want to get most of our stations proffit should have more opinions to do so

Dont we all want MORE of most things that work well? Think we can all agree that more options are (usually) welcome. But its not realistic to ask for such complex mechanics at this stage imo, maybe, and thats a big maybe, in the future something like this can be added, and if it does I hope its done in steps adding small bits over time but done right. And I want it for both NPC and player (I guess wishful thinking is free still).

The simple assign 1 ship to one ware type mechanic is rather a step backwards, I hope a solution can be found that achieves a similar control but more "elegant".

MFG

Ketraar

[Slashman]

So in other words you again are not telling the truth and when asked for a proof you evade the answer. Why am I not surprised...

Thanks God we have Steam refunds now and such a scam will not happen again. And speaking of X4, good luck with that. I really doubt anyone will be willing to buy it after this.

As much as I'd love to agree with this, history has shown that gamers are pretty terrible at keep those kinds of promises.

Case in point. Look up Starforge. Game released from Early Access unfinished with a huge number of features missing, mechanics broken and network instability. Got one or two small patches than abandoned. Everyone thought the studio was done. Then they launched Reign of Kings which is doing amazingly well.

I didn't buy ROK, but a whole lot of other people did (including many folks who got short-changed on their Starforge purchase). They even shamelessly reused assets from Starforge in it.

TL:DR Gamers have little to no power to control their 'gotta have it' impulses despite what a few will rage about on forums. I have no doubt that if the pre-release videos are just as hyped as the ones fro Rebirth, that the same people who shook their fists and swore off Egosoft will reach for their credit cards and pre-order away as if the Rebirth launch never happened.

Refunds will do some damage if it happens again, but there are still likely to be a lot of people who hold off and wait for it to be fixed past their refund window. Gamers aren't really getting smarter...just louder.

[Nikola515]

I hope people can restrain themselvs to not derail this topic with the same old bickering about the launch.

I still don't see why this would be the problem or why is it is so hard to explain..... Unless you can't ; )

I did, repeatedly in fact.

And again nobody is saying that manager AI is not working but it suck pretty bad....

Well you were saying just that and on top of lack of controls. I just chimed in to add some needed salt to the idea that everything is broken, trying to add a different perspective on how things are in relation to the so acclaimed "old days".

I don't want to replace auto trading that XR have i just want to add extra options for stations. Like assign a ship a single job to sell or buy wares for best price. As well as limit cargo.... So you can tell manager not to send ships unles cargo is 50% (each ship individual ) So for those who like auto trading they can get it and those who want to get most of our stations proffit should have more opinions to do so

Dont we all want MORE of most things that work well? Think we can all agree that more options are (usually) welcome. But its not realistic to ask for such complex mechanics at this stage imo, maybe, and thats a big maybe, in the future something like this can be added, and if it does I hope its done in steps adding small bits over time but done right. And I want it for both NPC and player (I guess wishful thinking is free still).

The simple assign 1 ship to one ware type mechanic is rather a step backwards, I hope a solution can be found that achieves a similar control but more "elegant".

MFG

Ketraar

You never said anything about those two options and why would be the problem( i haven't sen it yet only something that you don't to go in to it....)


AI is not broken but it is horrible in doing its job making impossible to run efficient empire(large empire not 7 stations) ; ) What is point building empire if it is only for show.... It's like going to hunt on bears with BB. Gun

So what if it is hard to add ? After all it is their job to make good games.... So im going to make crapy game becuse it is hard to make good one lol ? Do to lack of tools to run/control empire many people have left. But hey we can always make up reasons or excuses instead of doing something about it

[Ketraar]

You never said anything about those two options and why would be the problem( i haven't sen it yet only something that you don't to go in to it....)

Sorry but I think we are not talking about the same thing, tell me again which 2 options you are referring to and I'll happily give my 0.02€ worth about them.

So what if it is hard to add ? After all it is their job to make good good.... So im going to make crapy game becuse it is hard to make good one lol ?

Erm not sure if you are making a joke or are seriously asking. Going to take a chance and hope its the later one.

A working buy low, sell high system is already in place, granted with little options of control but its functional, yes even with more than 7 stations. Workshop then gives option for more, like YAT, Auto Trader, player shipyards (for production sink), etc.

The reasoning behind a more simple system at first over a going for a more complex one, I though was rather obvious, is budget and dont tell me its easy or there is no difference in making one over the other, that is just ignorance on basic development of any kind.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nanook]

....
As for forum goers, you cannot be serious, you always get a massive rush of people creating new accounts and logging in to ask questions and ask for support after release....

From the perspective of someone who's been here since the X-BTF days, and a moderator since the release of Reunion, I can absolutely say this is as dead a forum as I've ever seen it. And this only a year and a half after Rebirth's release. For past games, this much time after release, there was always a large amount of activity both on the main forum and the S&M forum for that game. I'd come on each morning and most of the front page would be new topics or new posts in existing topics. Go ahead, count how many fresh threads there are today. Heck, often there's more activity in the X Trilogy forum than there is on here. That never happened with past games. The main thing that keeps this forum active is the ongoing controversy and debating like in this thread.

[Nikola515]

@Ketaar

Thank you for your answer now I see your point but it seems you don't see my.... Yes i know that this is already in game but it is not working as it should... Let me give you example..... I have cell fab and it is full and no more room to produce anything.Station is 100% finished and it should trade trough whole sectors. I have 8 Rahanas assign to them and 4 of them are buying 1000 E-CELLS each 5 sectors away (wasting money on F-CELLS. Another 4 Rahanas are standing still and in some cases patroling area. Now whole sector is screaming for Ion or plasma cells but manager still won't send ships to trade.If it does it sends 2000 max to sell and not full cargo because that other station is empty and need whole bunch of them. So yes we have those things in game but manager to r******* to use them. If they are not going to improve AI they should give us tools to go around it . Having y8u might be ok with this AI but I and whole bunch of others are not. As for mods i already made my point. We shouldn't buy game just to make it somewhat operational or enjoyable with mods. Game should be good on it's own

[Ketraar]

@Nikola515
We are in agreement then I guess, as I said the AI needs adjusting, but that is a WIP, given the complexity. This has been the case for many "management" features in the past, I have confidence that given time (and pizza) this will be improved.

As for not relying on mods for enjoyment, well thats the issue with sandbox type games, you cant do EVERYTHING from the get go, many features need time to mature, mods provide the type of feedback you cant get anywhere else. This too has been the best path in the past.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

AI does need to improve a lot but prolem is almost two years and it still didn't get much improved. Thats why im complaining about.... If they can't improve they might as well bring old system back. I like XR economy more than X3 but this is the only problem that i hate and piss me off.

Don't get me wrong i like to use mods and my x3 is heavily modified... But i played X3 for amost 3 years before i got bored and started using mods(it was that good)...AI aim was bad but that's another problem..... But with XR i was pretty much forced to use mods because of bad AI. Do you see my point here ?