32bit launcher...

Brachra · Post by **Brachra** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 03:34

So, i noticed this hasnt been talked about..like...AT ALL

is it not even a problem?

TDB_Virtue · Post by **TDB_Virtue** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 07:38

the game dose not support 32bit computers by they size of RAM it need.

here is minimum stat u need.

OS: Windows 8 (64-bit), Windows 7 SP1 (64-bit), Vista SP2 (64-bit), XP SP2 (64-bit)
Processor: Intel i-Series at 2GHz or AMD equivalent
Memory: 4 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GT400 series with 512MB RAM or better, ATI 4870HD with 512MB RAM or better
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Hard Drive: 8 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c Compatible Sound Card
Additional Notes: These specs are still being determined

and the recommended stat

OS: Windows 7 SP1 (64-bit)
Processor: Intel i5 (Quad) or i7 at 2.5GHz or AMD equivalent
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GT500 series with 1GB RAM or better, ATI 5870HD with 1GB RAM or better
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Hard Drive: 12 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c Compatible Sound Card
Additional Notes: These specs are still being determined.

and for me i am using windows 8 right now. so i kinda think windows 8 should me recommended too sence its working very well for me.(but there are small bugs that dose not bother me that much. and know how to get around them.)

---got the stats of STEAM store of X Rebirth---

Brachra · Post by **Brachra** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 08:53

Thank you but not really what i was asking.

The game launches with a 32 bit launcher (this can be seen in your task manager)..

was merely asking if that in itself could be an issue with peoples Framerate issues. seeing as the game was marketed as 64 bit ONLY

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 10:45

The only difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit executable is in the amount of RAM it can access, and I've not seen XR using more than about 2.5Gb, so that shouldn't make any difference to framerate at all.

VacuumBreather · Post by **VacuumBreather** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 13:17

64-bit versions of Windows provide 32-bit support via a feature called WOW64. As this is essentially an emulator there is an overhead (a performance hit), but it should be negligible in almost all cases.

Short answer, I doubt it is contributing towards the game's performance issues.

It is a bit odd that Egosoft didn't produce an x64 binary considering the amount of memory the game needs and they don't officially support 32-bit Windows anyway.

_Lupus_ · Post by **_Lupus_** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 13:19

It has been talked about: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=348346

nalim27 · Post by **nalim27** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 15:00

pjknibbs wrote:The only difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit executable is in the amount of RAM it can access, and I've not seen XR using more than about 2.5Gb, so that shouldn't make any difference to framerate at all.

That is not simply true - WOW64 emulation. 8 new 64 registers in CPU will handle things better. New instructions than can do some calculation faster.

X games are very CPU demended because of simulation of everything - therefore every bit of CPU speed is welcome.

B_O_L_T · Post by **B_O_L_T** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 15:04

pjknibbs wrote:The only difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit executable is in the amount of RAM it can access, and I've not seen XR using more than about 2.5Gb, so that shouldn't make any difference to framerate at all.

Sorry but this is complete and utter nonsense.

X-rebirth would yield between 10% to 35% improvement in performance being re written to use 64 bit data types and compiled as a 64-bit program, before continuing to optimise the code and bug fix in the future.

The 64 bit architecture is far superior to 32-bit, the increased memory page size is one of the lesser advantages of moving to 64-bit. The increased ability to handle large data arrays, an increased number of registers, instructions that handle multiple operations in a single cycle, 64 bit data types, 128-bit media commands and more.

Running any 32-bit application under a 64-bit OS causes the system to run that code on a 32-bit virtual machine, this alone results in around a 2% performance loss over the same code compiled as a 64 bit, before making any changes within the code to take advantage of the 64 bit architecture. The typical performance gain of any program rewritten and compiled for 64 bit is around 10-15%. The improvement available to programs that handle large arrays of data is greater still, the move to a 64-bit exe can yield as much as a 25-35% improvement over the same code compiled for 32 bit.

Edited to sort readability,

Bobucles · Post by **Bobucles** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 15:17

The only difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit executable is in the amount of RAM it can access, and I've not seen XR using more than about 2.5Gb, so that shouldn't make any difference to framerate at all.

What the hell? A 32bit executable CAN'T use more than 2.5GB. The game will not use more because it is already maxed out. Even worse, you'll lose a HUGE amount of performance due to memory errors and paging. Task manager lies out the ass about memory use as is.

If you're going to demand a 64bit OS, have the decency to compile the game for 64 bit.

Syneris · Post by **Syneris** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 15:32

Bobucles wrote:What the hell? A 32bit executable CAN'T use more than 2.5GB.

Large address aware allows 4gb.

BloodSlinger · Post by **BloodSlinger** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 15:45

Syneris wrote:
Bobucles wrote:What the hell? A 32bit executable CAN'T use more than 2.5GB.
Large address aware allows 4gb.

And that's the 1 and only thing I've read they "officially" did, which almost indicates they somehow thought flippin the LAA flag was all they needed and didn't actually research the benefit of 64bit processing.

It's also the reason they state 32bit XP isn't officially supported. They didn't specify "why" but I have to assume it's nothing to do with actually taking advantage of 64bit. It likely only relates to the fact it will crash on XP the instant it exceeds the OS 32bit user address space barrier.

Very strange decision indeed.

Edited:
Clarified post.

Bobucles · Post by **Bobucles** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:19

Large address aware allows 4gb.

The problem is using Task Manager. It's TERRIBLE at listing true memory use. Why would you even trust such a bad app.

I've seen 2.5GB games double their size after switching over to 64bit. It's basically the "holy shit I'm cramped" warning sign.

Peltz · Post by **Peltz** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:33

So basically running this under 32 win7 is out of the question then? I can get in about 40minutes of gametime before it crashes. Is there any way to make it stable or is it format time?

bumpinthenight · Post by **bumpinthenight** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:02

I think its absurd that a 64bit native compiled executable was not part of the development process. Egosoft you knew from many previous iterations of the X series about how memory-starved your engine gets, you've even insisted on only supporting 64bit OSes (good, finally!) but haven't actually delivered a 64bit game.

Its been mentioned a few times now but I'll say it again: 64bit is a lot more then accessing more memory

BloodSlinger · Post by **BloodSlinger** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:36

Peltz wrote:So basically running this under 32 win7 is out of the question then? I can get in about 40minutes of gametime before it crashes. Is there any way to make it stable or is it format time?

Check this post on MSDN. It's worth trying 1st as opposed to the trouble of blowing away the OS.

Specifically, you're after this information from that post, but I posted the main link because it's good general info for all their OS on the matter.

The last 32bit OS I ever used was XP so I don't know if Win 7 x86 (32) handles the modified allocation (between os and user address space) better when you increase the uas to 3gb.

(side note: if you have a modern platform, did you need x86 Win7 for a specific reason? Do you support (developer) legacy applications? XP-mode virtual machine on Win 7 works decent for that).

Virtualaughing · Post by **Virtualaughing** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:01

32 bit OPsystem can utilise:
4gb = onboard ram+VGA ram

I think that the game will utilise more ram if eyefinit enabled or sy....

@B_O_L_T
it clearly seems you know what you are talking about

Peltz · Post by **Peltz** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:14

TO: BloodSlinger

Reply to your last question about using 32. No. But some moron at microsoft figured that it is common knowledge that "Install Windows 7" logically means the 32 version and "Install Custom Windows 7" means logically the 64 version. After figuring that out, i thought ah well, not many games need the 64 version yet and so here i am.

The platform i use is capable of running a 64 version and reinstalling the OS is not that big of a problem since windows has its own partition but it still takes time since i have no image file of fresh install to quicken things up.

But I'll follow those instructions and see how far it takes me.

Peltz · Post by **Peltz** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:42

The moment i hit save, CTD.

BloodSlinger · Post by **BloodSlinger** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 19:01

@Peltz, Figures. Was worth trying though since it's quick to do.

Edited: Did you try a fresh game and it's crashing or trying to save previous? Considering the insane amount (and type) of information they're saving in the file it might be worth messing around with a fresh game and seeing. That save may also wind up crashing on x64, due to the game and corruption anyway but never know.

They may default to that in the upgrade versions of Windows for compatibility purposes.

The retail box (as with many previous) of Windows 7 provides two disks explicitly stating 32 and 64 Windows.

Peltz · Post by **Peltz** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 19:32

It's kinda funny though, there are people with a lot more powerful rigs with fps problems which I only encountered so far when entering and using highways. And i can't save. Anyway, i'll leave the game to mature a bit and return to it at a later date.