Current [POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[Raider480]

with previous X games you were forced to have that 3rd party utility installed if you wanted to play.

Which was (as planned) subsequently patched out. The Superbox was to be the culmination of all the X games on a usable physical medium. If you 'buy' XR, then that's contractually just a perpetual rental from Steam and intrinsically tied to Valve's DRM. That is a completely different and abusive arrangement, compared to what we've previously had.

[StarSword]

The Steam Workshop is terrible, what with the upload restrictions and pay portal just to toy around with the mods. There's a reason the Skyrim Nexus is still so active.

What planet are you from where Nexusmods doesn't have a paywall and Steam Workshop does? I think you're confused. EDIT 8/15: Ok, now I see where it says you don't have to buy a package to register.

And there is not a single argument for or against that has been floated in this thread that has not been floated a thousand times over in the other thread. I humbly request the old thread be merged into this one and locked.

[Nikola515]

I know choice is play or not to play And I don't think Ego is giving us choice to play game without using Stem ..... Unless we ......

[Raider480]

What planet are you from where Nexusmods doesn't have a paywall and Steam Workshop does? I think you're confused.

This one? Here's a quick example: Say I want to look at how a texture artist did a new Skyrim weapon, so that I can do something similar with an Oblivion project. With hosting on the Nexus, I can download the package without needing to own Skyrim. The only complication is if the file is too large, in which case I need to set up a free account. Easy.
With Steam workshop hosting, there is no separation of the mods from the distribution / content control system. You have to "subscribe" to the mod, after which it will drop the files directly into your game. If you don't have it, then that's just too bad. If the file would be too large, then oh well.
I don't really care for ad hominem, but this link should help eliminate the chance that

you're confused

from players' point-of-view:
http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/ ... -disliked/
http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/ ... ibe-to-it/
http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/ ... shop-eula/

[nova beacon]

Possibly, but none of us can predict the future. And by the way, Skyrim had huge recognition across the world before it hit Steam.

And while we're not been forced to buy the game, if we do want to play then we are been forced to use a 3rd party many of us don't trust.

This poll is more about seeing how many people could be persuaded from a definitive "no" to a "maybe/yes" and under what circumstances this would happen.

No-one here is trying to ram this down Egosoft's throat, but we are curious to see peoples valuable opinions on the matter ........... and 30% is a massive number, if my business slid by 30% I would be facing severe financial problems.

The poll isn't entirely accurate i would say you would have more than 30% because you would have people who don't access this forum.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

with previous X games you were forced to have that 3rd party utility installed if you wanted to play.

Which was (as planned) subsequently patched out. The Superbox was to be the culmination of all the X games on a usable physical medium. If you 'buy' XR, then that's contractually just a perpetual rental from Steam and intrinsically tied to Valve's DRM. That is a completely different and abusive arrangement, compared to what we've previously had.

That's just crossing your fingers and hoping. There was never any guarantee made that such a provision would be made for any X game at any point in time.

[Ebany]

Love picking up games on steam, and especially like that egosoft seem to support nosteam.exe's later in the patch cycle

That's one of the poll options, "Maybe, if I can then get a DRM-Free copy from Egosoft." (DRM-Free = Steam Free)

.......... and 30% is a massive number, if my business slid by 30% I would be facing severe financial problems.

30% is way too high a number.

Certainly true now. Last I checked it was 68%, at the time I thought I would be safe with 30%, but currently it stands at 25%. Still, one in four people is an extraordinary large number. Imagine the impact that would have on a business if it was customers walking out the door or people getting made redundant.

The people who dislike Steam and complain the most are very vocal and very much in the minority. As in less than 1% of the minority.

There's no way to know without using some of the most powerful statistical and data gathering tools ever devised by humans, these are polls/surveys.

Fact is you can't put a value on the mindset of the people surfing these forums without singling out the "current" issues which drive them here. Currently its the release of X-Rebirth, so the people coming here are new people wanting more information or fans who just can't wait for the day they get the game. The people who come here because they are concerned with the delivery mechanism of that game (Steam) would actually make up a tiny percentage.

From the numerous surveys been done for marketing research, we now know that most disgruntled people will simply shop else where, they simply DON'T CARE enough to voice an opinion. The infinitesimally small amount of people you do see "complaining" are avid fans who feel their voice matters. While this applies primarily to "physical" outlets , the same rules apply to the digital community. Most people, upon finding Steam was the exclusive delivery mechanism, would simply walk away and never come back. I almost did and I've been an avid fan who has regularity checked on the forums about new news ...... but I care too much.

This is why most people get shot down in forums, because the majority of discontentment has gone elsewhere.

As for trust issues. There will plenty of people that will chose not to trust Steam as a matter of principle as opposed to any action on Steam's part, simply because they attach the idea of DRM to Steam and rail against the idea instead of the actuality. Those people can't be reasoned with.

Every re-action must first have a catalyst. If a person (dis)trusts Steam then I assume they do so for a reason, I don't claim to know or understand it, but it's their choice to make and I respect that.

Indeed, don't get me wrong, my post wasn't targeted at people like you

I understand.

I'm not against DRM as such, just a combination of personal values and bad experiences means on boycott Steam on a personal level. I would not intentionally try to dissuade people from using them, nor would I encourage it, I would prefer they form their own opinion.

Also, I too would say that they probably had low prices in the beginning of their venture as well. Though that was probably more to do with getting their "foot in the door".

I remember the start. We used the UI (what is now the Steam Client) to update games (one specifically for me), and although terribly bug ridden, for its created purpose it was great. It was later they had virus ridden demo's, bugs in every corner, and a budding desire to take over the world.

..... This poll is more about seeing how many people could be persuaded from a definitive "no" to a "maybe/yes" and under what circumstances this would happen.

... and this poll is not a census.
It doesn't represent 30% of Egosoft's stakeholders.

I won't bother explaining what a census is if you can't be bothered looking it up, but I can spare this simple overview for you;

A poll is a tool for gathering information
A survey is a tool used for gathering information
A Census is the combination of many polls or surveys

.. we are curious to see peoples valuable opinions on the matter ........... and 30% is a massive number, if my business slid by 30% I would be facing severe financial problems.

It represents 30% of a poll that attracts more people who want to show their dislike of Steam.

Please explain why you believe that this poll should say "100% yes", because as I read it, your saying the only reason it wouldn't is because this poll attracts haters?

The poll and it's wording are biased to hell and back.

This I find offensive! You only get one try, you can't edit a poll. I went to a great deal of trouble to ensure I had the correct questions presented in a neutral fashion. At least have the decency to explain yourself in a respectable fashion.

There are many fans of Egosoft/X who:
1. Don't visit the forums

Then they're not a fan, hence are excluded.

2. Don't care about 'polls' to show their interest

Again, if they don't care they're not a fan, they simply played the game for a few hours

3. Don't feel the need to whine and don't bother voting on polls/complaining

Each to their own.

I doubt your business is similar to that of Egosoft's.

Never said it was, but the fundamentals of all businesses are similar which is why you can get advanced degree's in the field at all major universities.

Steam is the way they can do this without spending millions on promoting.

One of the ways, not the only way.

[Ebany]

I just realised how long my last post was, looking at it now I must reduce its size. I have deleted as much as I can I'll will now refrain from replying to uneducated & irrational remarks, along with those personal attacks about the quality or bias nature of my post.

I spent a great deal of time, months in fact, deciding whether I should contribute and do this poll. I know from experience how fast pagan's get burnt at the stake. I also spent a great deal of time picking my questions carefully, and presenting them in the most neutral way possible.

Not once have I tried to convince people not to buy X-Rebirth, and not once have I been derogatory regarding Egosoft or their games. This poll is not about love/hate for Steam, its a tool to help show the mindset of people in these forums, the mindset of the true fans.

Edit: apologies in advance if I offended anyone. Rarely for me, I felt irrationally outrage at some comments I viewed as personal and unwarranted attacks. I think I cleaned any "offensive" comments before I posted, but since I'm multi-tasking while doing some accounting, I can't be 100% certain.

[Ebany]

And while we're not been forced to buy the game, if we do want to play then we are been forced to use a 3rd party many of us don't trust.

Do you trust TAGES? Because with previous X games you were forced to have that 3rd party utility installed if you wanted to play.

Apparently so because I purchased many duplicate copies of all of Egosofts title.

*I've had "lost games" from my Steam account until I could prove I purchased them with my receipt from Steam.

*I've had multiple issues with their UI causing severe lag on my bandwidth, the highest I can get in my area of Australia runs slightly faster than Dial-Up.

*I've had an account suspended after they thought my laptop was a hacker. I can't impart on a person how difficult it is to re-activate an account. Also note, if you accidentally log-in simultaneously through two (2) or more computers you can get banned permanently ..... lose access to all your games and all your licences.

*With a physical copy you pay for the licence, with Steam you pay for the access. They shut you down for any reason, those license's go back to Steam (not you or the developer).

*I have issues with their data collection and data sharing as per their EULA and Privacy Policy.

*They over charged me but refused to return the money, though they kindly put it in "my Steam Wallet" as per some obscure paragraph in one ot their more unknown policies.

*I can't see my account or trade the individual games.

The list goes on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I feel this way about any company with Steam's practices and principles regardless of whether its moives, music, software, e-books.

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

I won't bother explaining what a census is if you can't be bothered looking it up, but I can spare this simple overview for you;

A poll is a tool for gathering information
A survey is a tool used for gathering information
A Census is the combination of many polls or surveys

Now that's offensive. I know what a bloody census is.

A census concerns the entire population. In this case the population would be X gamers/fans/whatevers. This poll does not have an answer from everyone in that population therefore can not reasonably be used to enforce any hypothesis such as "1 in 4 people won't buy X:R".

Please explain why you believe that this poll should say "100% yes", because as I read it, your saying the only reason it wouldn't is because this poll attracts haters?

Think about it.
A person impartial about X:R being on Steam isn't gonna bother looking at a thread arguing about it. It attracts 2 main types of people.
One being the Steam 'haters', those wanting to air their concerns (to put it nicely).
The other group being the defenders, those who have seen and been part of steam debates in the past and must come in to this thread to back up what they think and say again what they have in the past.

It's the same logic that goes into public game reviews. Compare someone who buys, plays and enjoys a game to another who buys, plays and doesn't enjoy it - the latter is more likely to write a web review of the game than the former.
In other words, people are quiet until they see/hear something they don't like.

This I find offensive! You only get one try, you can't edit a poll. I went to a great deal of trouble to ensure I had the correct questions presented in a neutral fashion. At least have the decency to explain yourself in a respectable fashion.

To start off, it was not offensive. Calling something biased isn't being offensive.

Look at the first two options of the poll:
"Yes, do you even need to ask!"
"No, I'll immolate myself before that day comes!"

The first gives an impression that anyone who says yes strongly supports steam and Egosoft position on it. What if someone will buy X:R on steam but feels completely indifferent to it? Being that they don't 'support' steam as such but have no problems with just using it.

The second is the obvious opposite. It insinuates that those who don't want to use steam have a very strong negative stance on the matter. What about those who would say "No, I won't buy X:R on Steam because I personally don't want to use it".

There are many fans of Egosoft/X who:
1. Don't visit the forums

Then they're not a fan, hence are excluded.

2. Don't care about 'polls' to show their interest

Again, if they don't care they're not a fan, they simply played the game for a few hours

3. Don't feel the need to whine and don't bother voting on polls/complaining

I realise now you lack anything other than the basic education, but don't show it by labeling polls/surveys as unproductive and "not worth the bother"

So to be a fan of something you must (according to you):
Be apart of every other fan-made discussion?
Be apart of it's forums?
Have the time to read and respond to every fan-made poll?

Where is the logic behind that?!

I'll ignore the blatant offensiveness.

One of the ways, not the only way.

One of the best ways. You think major publishers would do it if it was not one of the best ways of getting your game 'out there'?
It's tried and tested. It's worked well for Egosoft wrt Albion Prelude so why stop? Why spend valuable cash on other distribution channels when you have one that's done you very well in the past?

Although you've had so many flaws in what you've said, this is the one area you may be correct.

"I disagree with what you've said! Therefore I will insult you!"

Fact is we will never know if they use Steam as their sole provider. All this poll does is help to give an overview of current opinions, this allows any good business to project statistics for the future.

As I've already said, but not in these words; this poll is far from accurate statistical research.
Not because of you, or anyone else, but it's concept.

I find it's the people who treat Steam as a religion and look on themselves as the lead missionary, there to carry the word. Outside the (Steam) religion, no-one cares or bothers to interact unless forced too. Inside the (Steam) religion you have those who simply attend, those who believe because everyone else does, those who believe because their religion is infallible, and the zealots ...... they're the suicide bomber type.

I understand, been a believer is like been able to touch the people who created all this greatness, truly I understand.

See, this whole 'Steam religion' idea is completely absurd.
Steam provides a service. It's a service that people use.
People don't worship it. It gets used.

[Ebany]

I'm unsure if I can reply as I could make no logical or mathematical sense of anything you just said ........ except the part where you worship Steam, I understood that part.

I must thank you though as you helped me pick up a few things I neglected to delete from my previous post, feelings I would not normally impart to any response.

[DarthZoldor]

This is how you sign the future of gaming away. Valve is one company and will one day come to an end and all the games that needs steam to work will no longer be of any use, valve is only in it to make money not to lose but to make money and if anything ever happens, valve will cut its losses and abandon the sinking ship.

Here is a simple list of threats that have the power to change the future of gaming.

Earthquakes> most common
Active solar flares
Deadly storms
Hackers and viruses
Floods
list can go on

An old saying.. [ Penny wise Pounds foolish ] spend less for cheap games but spend more to save our gaming industry.

[Ebany]

I feel the same way.

I have lost games already due to data base corruption, I got them back (after quite a lengthy process) because I retained my receipts, receipts with Steam I might add.

Makes you wonder what would happen if one didn't keep receipts or their whole data base had corruption issues.

[BigBANGtheory]

The likes of Steam, Uplay, Origin etc are a fact of PC gaming life whilst you can argue and win the morality aspects its not going to change anything against what the market tolerates.

Your best bet imho would be to devote energy into a Facebook style boycott campaign rather than criticize individual titles.

The majority of PC gamers at the end of the day want the newest, prettiest, most advanced and fun software and they want it asap over and above any delivery service. That is the market for you...

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Valve is one company and will one day come to an end and all the games that needs steam to work will no longer be of any use

In Egosoft's Steam FAQs they have committed to supporting their customers in the eventuality that Steam suffers from perma-death (probably by providing a no-Steam patch).

In addition, it is worth noting that Steam is unlikely to disappear even if Valve goes bust since it is probably one of the most valuable assets Valve has going. It is almost certainly more than self-sustaining in it's own right and probably carries minimum operating risk providing it continues to be bought from and published to.

The simple threats you have listed probably have an extremely low probability of affecting Steam on a whole-sale basis and is almost certainly mitigated already by having servers in more than one location. If there was an event severe enough to destroy the Internet (or a significant part of it) then losing Steam would be the least of our worries.

[Ebany]

Also, really...solar flare? Serious? Worry about yourself surviving first...

Whoa, you did not go there, Rig always comes first!

And yes, solar flares;

http://www.inquisitr.com/481144/solar-f ... t-is-real/

[Ebany]

Valve is one company and will one day come to an end and all the games that needs steam to work will no longer be of any use

In addition, it is worth noting that Steam is unlikely to disappear even if Valve goes bust since it is probably one of the most valuable assets Valve has going

No-one can predict these things;

*Activision's buyout of Blizzard - We all know how they screwed the WoW panda and went money hungry with Diablo III and its "new" auction house.

*Everyone said Steve Job's ( the %#$* he was) coming back to Apple would not stop the company closing it's doors.

*Brink was going to be the "game"

*No-one ever expected GameSpy to close

The list goes on and on and on. There's no problem buying into Steam if it suits a persons current needs, but never should we believe the future is set in stone, its fluid and chaotic with many surprises.

Edit: Please pay careful note of the GameSpy one. It was very much like Steam, a doorway to many of our favourite games, yet now its gone and those games which used it are .......... you get the point

[Chris0132]

There is, however, such a thing as probability.

Amazon, for example, is not very likely to close in the foreseeable future.

Predictions are not certain but they are better than saying 'we don't knooooooww anything man it's all the future who knows man nothing's certain don't believe the future man' or whatever.

[Ebany]

There is, however, such a thing as probability.

Polls assist in the calculation of probability

*They said Google's would never be considered competition to Microsoft .....

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Edit: Please pay careful note of the GameSpy one. It was very much like Steam, a doorway to many of our favourite games, yet now its gone and those games which used it are .......... you get the point

Gamespy was just an on-line multiplayer and networking facility, it did not act as a middle man/shop front for games like Steam does (IIRC). Steam can thus be considered a more commercially viable alternative to GameSpy since Steam has direct sources of revenue from both the community and the publishers/developers.

GameSpy enabled games have been in decline while Steam enabled games have been on the rise.

When was the last time you saw new release that used GameSpy? And then compare the number of GameSpy games around with the number of Steam games.