Moonbase revisited

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Fern Gally
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Post by Fern Gally »

Wow :o ..............very nice, and this inside the Transcend Mod for AP?

Very great Work. This is a good messages.

Greetings from Germany, Fern Gally
Sturmer
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Post by Sturmer »

This looks fantastic!

I have just four questions:
- the problem with big asteroids in TC that I had was to judge how far from it's surface my ship was - especially in dark sectors (which ended with me exploding) - will it be easier to know how far from the surface of this moon we are?
- will the landing basically be flying into the invisible dock like what huge military bases have for capital ships? Meaning, landing lights on both end of an invisible strip, ending with that green blinking light in the middle? Or have you something else in mind? Because none of our ships have wheels or other landing gear...
- will this be AP-only or also TC?
- will there be gravity? Is it even possible with TC's engine?

Keep up the great work!
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

- the problem with big asteroids in TC that I had was to judge how far from it's surface my ship was - especially in dark sectors (which ended with me exploding) - will it be easier to know how far from the surface of this moon we are?
The surface of this "moonlet" is very bright. Judging your distance from the surface is very easy.
-will the landing basically be flying into the invisible dock like what huge military bases have for capital ships? Meaning, landing lights on both end of an invisible strip, ending with that green blinking light in the middle? Or have you something else in mind? Because none of our ships have wheels or other landing gear...
Autopilot guides your approach to the "airport" runway. When "docked", you ship floats slightly above the airstrip surface. I will be providing a video of this procedure within the next day or so.
- will this be AP-only or also TC?
Initially for AP. TC version is expected shortly after AP release (time permitting). There is a possibility we will release concurrently.
- will there be gravity? Is it even possible with TC's engine?
I do have some ideas for that, but probably not available for first release.

At this time, I am under severe time constraints, and I am working to get as much quality work done before my window of availability ends.
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bluenog143
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Post by bluenog143 »

Finally! :D

Just one question though. Are there any compatibility issues with this that could conflict with other mods? I assume it changes the map file, so assuming it conflicts with another mod that uses a new map, could I merge the two?
SinisterDeath wrote:This reminds me of something...

"I don't believe in GoD, but GoD sure believes in blowing up my factories."
Dark_Ansem wrote:Seeing your creation in-game and working makes one feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

bluenog143 wrote:Just one question though. Are there any compatibility issues with this that could conflict with other mods? I assume it changes the map file, so assuming it conflicts with another mod that uses a new map, could I merge the two?
Not many mods (to my knowledge) use custom maps. This mod will add several new sectors along with corresponding 749 file (so sectors show with in-game galaxy map). Otherwise, this mod will be fully compatible with AP/TC current map, items (ships etc), and vanilla game plots. We will be adding various Mission Director files to accommodate Transcend I story/plot and certain special non-standard functionality.

This (Transcend I for AP/TC) will be a major mod, and as with such mods, it's difficult to know how well it'll work with other mods. Since we don't use any scripts (MD instead), most likely most of the various numerous custom script mods will work without any problems.

All of this remains to be seen, and we'll know more as we bring this together approaching release. :)
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

Here is a YouTube video of Moonbase landing/docking.

Considering how large the Moonbase is and how long it takes to dock, much of that video is captured while in SETA. Even then, performance is very reasonable.

I still have some work to do improving the Moonbase (adding spaceport features and surface details) but so far things are coming together well. :)

[EDIT] OP Images updated.
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Playbahnosh
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Post by Playbahnosh »

Hmm... :gruebel:

I don't wanna be a buzzkill, but am I the only one who think that "runway" looks really out of place here? I mean, we are not flying airplanes, we are flying space ships, and we do have thrusters on all sides. X ships in general are designed mostly aerodynamically (this is mostly visible on fighters), which is odd considering they were never intended to be used in atmosphere. Having sleek, aerodynamic hulls and wings are in fact detrimental in space, especially for fighter ships for giving unnecessary target surfaces. Even if we do incorporate the idea of atmospheric thrusters and ailerons, these ships are VTOLs, we don't need a runway, only a landing pad. Vertical descent and ascent are more faster, too. IMO it makes sense.

But, personal preference and being an insufferable smartass aside, I LOVE this idea :) I would imagine this could be used to create asteroid stations, making ships dock inside asteroids, like hidden pirate bases.
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dertien
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Post by dertien »

This is awesome Observe. Modders really push the boundaries of the so called impossibilities" that were laws at first.

But, if I may say so, could it be possible to:

-Replace the blue plastic texture seen while on the planet's approach seen from space, with something... less plastic ?

- Add a fake nebula near the planet to simulate some kind of atmosphere and clouds like in the Tortuga sector from X-tended:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg801/sc ... es=landing

- The runway thing is nice, but how about a different approach,


a) The one that is used on mining bases in X3TC already, using the docking gantries one finds on Argon equipment docks for example, but refraining the ship from rolling its axis just before docking.

b) Use a base model like the military outpost for example with a (Death star kinda) docking slot that you could fly into. Like vanilla X3TC.

c) Use a model like X-tended's Split/Paranid Wharf, and make the bottom part stick into the planetoid surface

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg20/sca ... es=landing



I took the liberty to add some docking sequence Youtube movies from the game Privateer 2 The Darkening as reference should you want to pursue a path in that direction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OqqNmtW ... ure=relmfu skip movie to 4:50 (notice that the station is hovering above the surface)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V2FwNKO ... ure=relmfu skip movie to 2: 18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqc14Yil ... ure=relmfu Skip movie to 5:31

Last thing I wanted to say. Great work !!! Looking forward to this.
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

Playbahnosh wrote:Even if we do incorporate the idea of atmospheric thrusters and ailerons, these ships are VTOLs, we don't need a runway, only a landing pad. Vertical descent and ascent are more faster, too. IMO it makes sense.
Technically, runways are still needed after a fashion... space ships do not stop instantly in mid-air/mid-space and I would like to see where in the X lore says that the craft are VTOL? :wink: Even then, just because VTOL is an available capability does not mean that the pilot *has* to use it. Often pilots of VTOL aircraft only use VTOL when they have to. Having a catapault launch you and a nice landing strip for you to touch down on is better on fuel consumption.

[rant]The RL Space Shuttles are not VTOLs. VTOL is too expensive on fuel which is why the shuttle is launched into sub-orbit via one of two mechnisms... Rocket (which is disposable) or from the back of a large aircraft moving at speed and at high altitude (effectively catapault - which I do not believe has been used that often). And going to fiction: the death gliders/X-302s in Star Gate require (or atleast use) a run-way; the fighters from Battlestar Gallactica also use runways/catapults.[/rant]

Personally, if the mod author feels runways fit into their mod's lore - I say fill ya boots ;)
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

Thanks everyone for your feedback!

At this point, I'm not sure where (if anywhere) I'm going with this concept.

If we redo Transcend I for TC/AP, I'll include the Moonbase in some form, because as those of you who are familiar with the original Transcend mod, it (Moonbase) represents the "gateway" to the "Mech" sectors.

I'm still trying out some different ideas for this model. We'll see.... :)
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Playbahnosh
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Post by Playbahnosh »

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:I would like to see where in the X lore says that the craft are VTOL? :wink:
This is not about X lore, but if it were, it would make sense. You never seen X ships line up at gas stations, have you? ;) I assume their reactors are powerful enough to generate enough energy not to need any "fuel". It also goes well with other space universe lore, since the great majority of space ships in different sci-fi universes are VTOL, and for good reason. Runways take up a LOT of precious real-estate, not to mention resources. Also, it's one thing to use them in an Earth-like atmosphere, but what about totally different ones? A ships mass is the same everywhere you go, and if it has engines capable of accelerating it to untold speeds and and changing directions in such sort timeframes in space, it's safe to say they are able to lift the ship up vertically. But if the gravity is so strong that it can't, it won't be able to using a runway either.

The X-302s use a runway because they are basically atmospheric fighters modified for space travel, and they still use fossil fuels where your own fuel rule applies. On the other hand, take the Jumpers from SG:A, they are VTOLs, since they've been designed as space craft first and atmospherics second.
The Vipers from BSG use runways because they are small (M5-like) fighters witch were never designed to enter atmospheres and they don't have really powerful thrusters save for their main engines. They need the friction of the flight deck to slow them down on emergency docking. They do launch from a catapult though. On the other hand, the Raptors ARE designed to include atmospherics, and they ARE VTOLs :)
Going on this line, there are the ships from Star Wars, Star Trek or indeed Firefly.

Also, today's space shuttles don't count. We are nowhere near technologically advanced to start thinking about building spaceships. The shuttles of today are still glorified aircrafts with life support and some heat shielding stapled on them. They are not space ships first.

I'm an insufferable smartass, sorry bout that ;)
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

Playbahnosh wrote:This is not about X lore...
That's true, it's more about Transcend mod lore. :wink:

As the story goes, the Moonbase came out of that wormhole you see in the background. This is the same wormhole that sucked the Transcend II mod Fleet into another Galaxy.

No one knows who constructed the Moonbase, how they managed to slice a moonlet, create an atmosphere, and Terraform the "top" of it. Likewise, it's not clear why they needed an airstrip. :wink:

Observe Space Research discovered the Tree of Life sector which has the Moonbase in it, and claimed the sector as center for their research and commercial operations.

Consequently, archeologists studying the Moonbase, found a tunnel leading to the center. Inside, is a "Templegate" leading to 12 "lost" sectors inhabited by the fearsome Mech's and other strange anomalies.

All this will be present in Transcend I mod for TC/AP (if released).

Thanks.
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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

[OT]
Playbahnosh wrote:But if the gravity is so strong that it can't, it won't be able to using a runway either.
Not necessarily true, taking your assumption that fuel/energy consumption is not an issue (which could be arguable - fuel/energy can be gathered in-flight with certain technologies). Providing a ship can build up sufficient speed/lift at lower altitude they can slingshot themselves (this could be the purpose of runways in a given environment - perhaps augmented with energy fields to facilitate safe capture and/or launch).

That being said, my point was not that X theory or Y theory is correct but rather that either *could be* and pointing out the counter point(s) to your argument.[/OT]

In any case, this is Observe's mod and his mod's lore (not ours). :goner:
Lenna (aka [SRK] The_Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

Well, the other thing is, ships in X3 already use "runways" for the most part. It's just that the runways are in space instead of an actual airstrip.

All (almost) X ships find the landing nav-guide, and then proceed to move forward to the docking point. Seems much like an "airstrip" to me. :wink:
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Observe
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Post by Observe »

Images updated to reflect new surface texturing, colorful clouds, shader adjustments, and frozen lakes. :)

It's getting close to being done. I may add some light fog for added effect.
Nicoman35
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Post by Nicoman35 »

Hi Observe,
how much would it take for a noob (me) to make a model of a station with internal docking bays? I mean stations like the ones in x2, where you could fly inside of a station and dock there.
I know, in x2 a small level was loaded when passing the entrance doors. But that sould be no handicap. I just want the station model to have an interior. No need to load some level, right?

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