Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[Ericmor]

I don´t know other countries, but from where i came from i NEVER, EVER saw a single box of x universe game before in the store.
We only have access to mainstream games like EA releases or Ubisoft ones - i never saw x3: reunion available anywhere around here.
Same will go to x:rebirth... i sure hope it will be available on steam, because steam is the only way for guys like me to even purchase a game.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

From what I've read Steam has ruined the modding community for Skyrim. Before you could just download a mod somewhere and apply it simply. Now apparently you have to do everything through Steam. Auto-updates and all.

It hasn't ruined anything. It's certainly split the modding community, that much is definitely true, but a lot of that seems to be more certain modders feeling Steam is encroaching upon what they consider to be 'their territory' rather than any particular issue.

There's no particular intrinsic incompatibility between Steam Workshop mods or mods from the rest of the community as I myself am currently running a couple mods from the community and a handful off the Steam workshop and everything works perfectly well.

Obviously there are personal limits as to how much each player has in terms of expendable income,and there is a level at which I would not pay,but in the long-term,X-games are cheap.

So as long as DLCs are not costing above a certain level,I am willing to pay for them.

+1

DLC is entirely optional. The only question you need to ask yourself is 'Is this content worth x amount of money to me?' If the answer is yes then go ahead and enjoy. If it's not then you just don't buy it. Simple as that.

[pjknibbs]

Example,egosoft could release a very basic game then charge you again for DLCs so you could end up paying twice.

What does that have to do with Steam? There are plenty of examples of companies doing exactly that with disc games, so if it's your assertion that you have to have your game on Steam to do this, I'm afraid you're incorrect. (And note I don't believe Egosoft would do this in any case, so it's a doubly moot point).

[Slashman]

Hi Slashman, I was extremely puzzled about your first point in your last reply?
Something about me not facing opposite views on a forum. I thought this very strange as I believe in open debate and my points were about this site restricting them?
Could you further clarify???

You accused me of passing the buck by saying that the pro-Steam people don't have direct control over what Egosoft/Deepsilver do with regard to this release. You said:

Hi Slashman a couple of points:-
1. Cannot allow - no control; Good bit of buck passing there, many Steamers have nailed their colours to the no Steam-free arguement during this long thread, advocating vehemently and at times agresively the ES steam only policy, I am sure ES rep.s were heartened by the violent support. Also ES claim that they went Steam only because of the large numbers of Steamers, so do not hide your inluence under a bushel?

I was making the point that the small number of people on this thread who are fine with a Steamworks release are hardly likely to be responsible for this decision going either way with Deepsilver/Egosoft. You seem to have the impression that we could change it if we(the pro-Steam people on this forum wanted to).

You seemed to be saying that we're stopping you from getting your Steam-free version by saying that we're fine with and/or support Steam. I say that's highly unlikely. Steam's numbers and stats speak for themselves.

The fact that there are people on this thread who tried to claim that they are all made up doesn't make any difference to a business who needs to make a logical decision on its product.

I was under the impression that you were somehow implying that we should step aside and let you get what you want by not saying that we support a Steamworks release. If that was what you were implying(if it wasn't then I apologize), then the expectation is pretty unrealistic.

I don't think that Egosoft is restricting people from making points about Steam...they are simply directing them to the appropriate threads, because as we have all seen, the discussions tend to be long and sometimes heated.

From what I've read Steam has ruined the modding community for Skyrim. Before you could just download a mod somewhere and apply it simply. Now apparently you have to do everything through Steam. Auto-updates and all.

I don't use the Steam Workshop to get mods. I do use it to browse what new mods are available and then get them from Skyrim Nexus. I also use the Nexus mod manager to install and manage my mods. I have the option to switch when I want to, though. Which is what I would think makes for an ideal situation. Everyone can get what they they want where and when they want it.

If the mod community for Skyrim is ruined, then I'm not seeing much evidence of it. There are more mods coming out than ever as people who never tried modding before are making new things.

[greypanther]

I have checked and it was not ccleaner that caused Steam to want to check in from off line mode. I wonder what it was?

[strude]

I have checked and it was not ccleaner that caused Steam to want to check in from off line mode. I wonder what it was?

Probably aliens

[the old one]

The daughter bought me a copy of AP yesterday ,it now resides in the dustbin,i gave her the money back she paid for it,but there is no way will i have steam on my pc,the old one

[Paranoid66]

I find it is unwise old one to ever say never about anything it tempts fate.

However I feel your pain and frustration. I do not see AP as a huge loss though as it is just TC with bells and whistles and the additions involved are not ones that especially excite me.

The fixing of Rebirth to steam only however is another matter one I deeply lament. There are many things about Rebirth I find appealing with only one big horrid end game issue the need to be online to install.

Right now I cannot afford to install a phone line and get broadband simply to be able to play pc games.

[AkrionXxarr]

The fixing of Rebirth to steam only however is another matter one I deeply lament. There are many things about Rebirth I find appealing with only one big horrid end game issue the need to be online to install.

Need to be online to update, not install (Unless you don't buy the physical copy).

[thetack]

no you need to be on line to activate, and update and whatever happens you have to have steam client on your pc, unless Bernd pulls a large fluffy bunny out of the hat the disk just allows you to save the waste of time downloading the whole game, so paranoid still couldnt play the game without a phone line conection and so is screwed.

that is the main issue i have with steam unless its multiplayer why the hell should we be worring about internet conections and phone lines.

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

The daughter bought me a copy of AP yesterday ,it now resides in the dustbin,i gave her the money back she paid for it,but there is no way will i have steam on my pc,the old one

Thankyou for sharing that little anecdote. I'm sure your daughter appreciated your gratitude for her thoughtfulness..

[TEKing66]

And even with a DVD version of a Steam based game you DO NEED to be online to install. The EXE file for the game IS NOT included on the DVD, it MUST be downloaded from the Steam servers. Also, when Steam downloads the EXE file, it will also download "any and all" updates for the game. So, installing on a PC that has NO connection is impossible, and a PC with a slow connection to the internet is nearly impossible.

So, yes even with a DVD you still need to be online to install a Steam based game.

There is no getting out of that.

[Slashman]

And even with a DVD version of a Steam based game you DO NEED to be online to install. The EXE file for the game IS NOT included on the DVD, it MUST be downloaded from the Steam servers. Also, when Steam downloads the EXE file, it will also download "any and all" updates for the game. So, installing on a PC that has NO connection is impossible, and a PC with a slow connection to the internet is nearly impossible.

So, yes even with a DVD you still need to be online to install a Steam based game.

There is no getting out of that.

That's pretty much true. You'll need to download something if it is activated via Steam. With the prevalence of day 1 patches these days, the download is unlikely to be negligible for someone with dial-up or equivalent internet speed.

[Asmodae]

The daughter bought me a copy of AP yesterday ,it now resides in the dustbin,i gave her the money back she paid for it,but there is no way will i have steam on my pc,the old one

Thankyou for sharing that little anecdote. I'm sure your daughter appreciated your gratitude for her thoughtfulness..

This is why I don't bother posting anymore. Any effort to take a stand on principal and stick to it is met with disdain, derision, and personal character attacks.

[Alan Phipps]

@ Asmodae: Whilst Moderators here will rarely feel the need to act just on expressions of mild disdain for a stated action, we will act on cases of personal derision and character attacks on another poster. In this case the poster used an illustration of a domestic action intended to show his commitment to a principle and obviously sought public comment about it - or else why post it?

Once that action is made public it is likely to attract debate or comment on its 'wisdom' and N-S has made a statement of his opinion as to a third party's feelings over it. It is not offensively derisive or personal in nature, however it is Off-Topic and I would be grateful if this line of discussion were not pursued further here.

[AkrionXxarr]

And even with a DVD version of a Steam based game you DO NEED to be online to install. The EXE file for the game IS NOT included on the DVD, it MUST be downloaded from the Steam servers. Also, when Steam downloads the EXE file, it will also download "any and all" updates for the game. So, installing on a PC that has NO connection is impossible, and a PC with a slow connection to the internet is nearly impossible.

So, yes even with a DVD you still need to be online to install a Steam based game.

There is no getting out of that.

That's pretty much true. You'll need to download something if it is activated via Steam. With the prevalence of day 1 patches these days, the download is unlikely to be negligible for someone with dial-up or equivalent internet speed.

Which is downloading an update, not the install. :B If it's anything like Skyrim for me you will not need to be online to install. Activate and play yes, update yes, install no.

[TEKing66]

So your saying that the DVD version of Skyrim contains an exe file.
And that you can install it an play it without connecting to the internet and downloading anything?

Then it is the first Steam game that I have heard of that works like that!

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

Whether the DVD version contains an encrypted .exe that decrypts when you register with Steam or whether it contains no .exe and you download a couple meg .exe from the Steam servers when you register is largely a moot point. In either scenario you're still going to require an active internet connection at least for the duration of the registration process.

Technically then you're quite correct to say that you need to be online to install.. for a given definition of 'install'.

[strude]

This mini discussion is getting a little silly and nit picky. Regardless of whether you can need to be online or not to "install", you MUST go online before you can play the first time. I can't imagine anyone actually wants to install a game, but not play it. I think it's safe to say for everyone that you need to connect to the internet to get the game running.

[David Howland]

I am just hoping that if there is to be no Steam free RB, then maybe ES can produce the patch workaround as for AP, so those of us fortunate enough to have an internet connection and an old redundant computer can install on one and play on the other.
However the protests must go on for the thousands without a connection, as long as this site allows it?