Split from X-Rebirth Steam poll thread - Round 2

[dougeye]

there is an easy way to solve this downloads during install problem, simply unplug the ethernet cable from your pc, install the game then plug the cable back in and restart, steam will then install any updates.

Also the reason some steamwork games have large download during install is because in some cases a game may be 5.2g but a standard dvd is 4.7g so a developer who is only releasing a game via steamworks will use steam to download the rest of the game rather than distribute a second disc with 0.5g on it for example. its a much more cost efficient method than distributing extra discs and double disc cases. obviously if a game is not exclusivly steamworks they will have to release a second disc.

+ some games that are ported, dragon age 2 as an example need pc users to download extras like hi res texture packs etc on day 1.

[perkint]

a game may be 5.2g but a standard dvd is 4.7g so a developer who is only releasing a game via steamworks will use steam to download the rest of the game rather than distribute a second disc with 0.5g on it for example

That's true for burnt discs, but pressed discs (which surely pretty much all retail games are?) have a lot more flexibility in capacity. You really shouldn't see this issue!

Tim

[Zippo342]

a game may be 5.2g but a standard dvd is 4.7g so a developer who is only releasing a game via steamworks will use steam to download the rest of the game rather than distribute a second disc with 0.5g on it for example

That's true for burnt discs, but pressed discs (which surely pretty much all retail games are?) have a lot more flexibility in capacity. You really shouldn't see this issue!

Tim

It is true they have a lot more flexibility, but even still there is an upper limit to which his statement is true. It just isn't at the 4.7 GB mark, maybe closer to 6 GB.

Edit: Another reason springs to mind. While I do not know precicely the disc format DVD and Blu-ray uses, CDs wrote data in a series of 8 cocentric circles each a duplicate of the previous circle before it started a new one. This level of redundancy leads to scratch resistance as the scratch would need to hit each of the 8 layers in the same spot to wipe out the data. Many game manufacturers though decided to instead use a 7 or 6 ring format to increase the amounts of data on the disc. Unfortunately this leads to the CDs being less scratch resistant than previous ones. This may be similar to what companies do with DVDs, and some may actually prefer to keep the original, more robust format, for the benefit of gamers who don't take proper care of their discs.

[strude]

It just isn't at the 4.7 GB mark, maybe closer to 6 GB.

It's around 9GB

[bobxii]

One good note, when I contacted Verizion, the guy I talked to said they were pushing to get 3G in this area. But, he also mentioned it may be a year or longer before it is available. The main reason I started looking at that route is because on Verizion's "coverage map" they show my area as being covered. Reality is the map seems to be a best guess on the map makers part, as once he ran my address he came back and told me the above.

Have you measured the signal level in dBm? If it's not too far below usable, you could acquire a cell booster device to bump it up ~8-13dB (my family uses one on our lake property).

[Zippo342]

It just isn't at the 4.7 GB mark, maybe closer to 6 GB.

It's around 9GB

Not bloody likely. Ignoring compression which all installations should already use, any DVD you see quoting that many GB is actually using dummy sectors which don't actually exist and are never referenced by the table of contents as a DRM style. There is not 9 GB of usable data on a DVD ever unless it's dual sided.

[strude]

It just isn't at the 4.7 GB mark, maybe closer to 6 GB.

It's around 9GB

Not bloody likely. Ignoring compression which all installations should already use, any DVD you see quoting that many GB is actually using dummy sectors which don't actually exist and are never referenced by the table of contents as a DRM style. There is not 9 GB of usable data on a DVD ever unless it's dual sided.

The official specs for a DVD-9 (single sided dual layer) disk is 8.54GB.

[Scoob]

Hi,

~4.7gb is the limit for normal single-layer discs, but I've plenty of DVD based games that are more than this. Strude is right, the limit for a pressed dual-layer DVD is ~8.5gb, which is quite a lot.

Games are getting bigger, but they can always pop another DVD in the box. It used to be the norm to have multiple CD's for larger games back in the day, DVD's are likely far less expensive to produce per-unit than CD's were back then.

In theory a Steam release bought on DVD should install automatically from DVD (both my recent installs did this, no special settings, it just worked) then authenticate & you're ready to play. However "day one" patches seem to have become the norm now so likely you will have to wait for an update to be applied. Skyrim did this, but it didn't take long.

I consider my broadband to be quite good at ~400kB/s download, however many of my friends laugh at me for being so slow. However for many I think it's not the speed but the reliability of their service. Luckily Steam can resume downloads if you run out of time / bandwidth to resume later. Not ideal, but a workable solution.

Once done simply pop into offline mode then only connect your client when you wish to update. Many mentioned that there's a "time offline" limit before the client insists on going back online. I've not encountered this myself yet, nor found any confirmed proof of some hard-coded limit.

We know that any major hardware changes will mean re-authentication, same as with Windows, and that unfortunately would make you obliged to download any available updates for your games at that point.

Scoob.

[TEKing66]

@ bobxii

I just recieved the following in an email from Verision, kinda disheartening.

The email reads:

Dear Mr. King ,

My name is Vanessia and I appreciate your interest in Verizon Wireless Mobile Broadband for your Desktop PC. You would like to ensure that this service can be used for this purpose and if Mobile Broadband is unlimited data. I can understand your concern. As a consumer, I know how important it is to shop for those services that best fit our needs. I am happy to answer your question. Mobile Broadband is not for desktop pc use. With Mobile Broadband, you can stay connected whether you're on the road or in a meeting across town while. You will be able to connect to the Internet or corporate intranet to view your e-mail and attachments while you're away from the office on the nation’s largest and most reliable 3G network. Additionally, we do not offer Unlimited data plans. Our plans come in measures of GB. I apologize for any confusion or inconvenience.

For additional information about Mobile Broadband Plans, including a Data Calculator that will help you determine how much data you use and what option works best for you, please visit the following link:

Mobile Broadband

If you are looking for desktop service, you may contact Verizon Communication for landline service.

www.verizon.com

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to answer your question. We appreciate your interest in Verizon Wireless products and services and we hope that you will allow us to be your wireless service provider. Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

Vanessia
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

So, I guess that sinks that boat. Oh well back to the drawing board.

[strude]

... the limit for a pressed dual-layer DVD is ~8.5gb, which is quite a lot.

Not just pressed, but recordable DVD+R DL disks also have that capacity.

[thetack]

anyone remember games coming on twelve 3,5" floppies or even on ten 5,25s , still it was an improvment on those cassette taps so whats wrong with a game on 2 DVDs

[xeon_1]

anyone remember games coming on twelve 3,5" floppies or even on ten 5,25s , still it was an improvment on those cassette taps so whats wrong with a game on 2 DVDs

Haven't got a clue.
don't remind me.
had to install windows 95 onces one a pc with only floppy's that wasn't fun.

[Nova Scotia]

Lucky the re installs were easier,if like me, you had a Tape back up system

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ... h32-(eBay)

same as my old girl , except I had the tape back up option

[Scoob]

... the limit for a pressed dual-layer DVD is ~8.5gb, which is quite a lot.

Not just pressed, but recordable DVD+R DL disks also have that capacity.

Yeah, those too - have used a few as backup solutions in the past. Thing about home-dual layer is it always used to be hit and miss if it'd work on someone elses system. Well, in the early days at least. I generally just use single layer if I need to burn stuff now...not that it's a common event.

I did notice that Steam backups let you select the media capacity during the backup. However, I've just been mounting the imagine directly over my network rather than burn to physical media - so much faster. Plus, until the floods, HDD space was sufficiently cheap to make mirroring or holding a couple of copies of something practical.

Scoob.

[Alan Phipps]

Lovely nostalgia and all, but I guess that a few recent posts now have had little to do with use of Steam for Rebirth. Can we either get back on thread topic or maybe continue the nostalgia and media discussions in the Off Topic forum please?

[the old one]

I see egosoft is just about giveing AP away on steam ie 75% off,they must be desparate to increase sales.Also in the AP forum they are saying that a lot of it was made by the community for the community ,it sounds a bit conmanish that egosoft should sell it back to the community instead of saying thank you to all the loyal supporters over the years and haveing it as a down load from egosoft,whats the world comeing to i do not have a clue,the old one

[Scoob]

I guess it's a Steam thing. Quite a few titles appear to have jumped to their full price before Christmas - AP being a new release full price from the start which isnt unexpected.

Now, as usual, everything has come tumbling down...still, 75% off is a hell of a lot...

I did read about a month ago in an aritcle about online distribution platforms that as much as 70% of the money can go directly to the developer. I assume however that this is only true of indi's who don't have a publisher wanting to take a share too. Dunno how much a Steam sale of AP today is worth to Egosoft...

I assume Steam "sales" are a little different to the old bargain basement bins of yesteryear. I.e. The store had paid the going rate to the publisher for the title, who in turn had paid a set rate to the developer per unit shipped. The stuff in the bin just raised less dosh for the store in effect - or simply allowed them to get some money for an old title. With Steam, from what I understand as least for pure digital copies, one sale equals one sale for the publisher and the developer. DVD based copies likely work differently.

I guess a DVD based copy of Rebirth would mean Egosoft have been paid for n number of copies, irrespective of whether they sell or not, whereas pure steam is per end-user sale.

With this in mind it looks like DVD copies (albeit with Steam acitivation) are a must for the initial up-front revenue stream, despite the extra production costs.

Maybe it works like this, maybe not...

Scoob.

[Nova Scotia]

They can make it a 100% off sale price and it still is not free unless they include free data use download.You pay your ISP for data and Steam rides the free Wave

[Scoob]

Yeah, but that's not a cost they're applying, nor do the Publisher / Egosoft get a cut of your bandwidth costs - unless of course the Steam Conspiracy is further reaching than any of us imagined!

I have an "unlimited" connection (for what that's worth) so don't pay per MB, just a fixed monthly feee. Based on what ALL my friends have I assume this is the norm in the UK, but likely not elsewhere.

Scoob.

[AkrionXxarr]

Yeah, but that's not a cost they're applying, nor do the Publisher / Egosoft get a cut of your bandwidth costs - unless of course the Steam Conspiracy is further reaching than any of us imagined!

I have an "unlimited" connection (for what that's worth) so don't pay per MB, just a fixed monthly feee. Based on what ALL my friends have I assume this is the norm in the UK, but likely not elsewhere.

Scoob.

I can add from my experience that Unlimited connections seem fairly common in the US as well. At least they are on the West coast.