Sorely disappointed in AP war scenario

[Falcrack]

The main thing that got me really excited about AP was the war aspect, where we were led to beleive that we would be able to help make a difference in the outcome of the war.

I have not yet completed the plot, but from what I gather, the "war sectors" (blinking red) never progress past Jupiter, Asteroid Belt, Heretics End, Circle of Labor, Omicron Lyrae, and Treasure Chest. Someone please correct me if I am wrong and if it can actually expand past that though!

Reinforcments seem to be of the "unlimited" variety. Doesn't matter how many enemies you kill, they will keep simply spawning at the gates. All the weapons and missiles that are on the ships do not come from the economy, but are simply spawned on the new ships as far as I can tell. That means that the strength of the economy for either sides apparently makes not a shred of difference in either side's ability to wage wage. That also means there is no opportunity to become a war porifiteer, selling weapons to either sides for use in their conflict, because their weapons apprently have never come from a factory at all.

Combat seems much improved, but the game suffers sadly from combat having any real influence on the universe, other than maybe destroying some valuable player owned ships.

There is no war, only a faint illusion of a war.

[Catra]

i dont see how the economy and reinforcement portion of your rant comes off as something new, its been well known that theres no way the current economy of X could sustain any sized modern space fleet and they spawn from thin air. =P

the war doesnt really have to progress past that area of space, as where else would the terran navy strike and what reasons would they have for attacking anyone else?

[ypsylon]

Well to some extent I'm with you. But only to some, not fully. You are right - war sectors remain the same.

I don't agree about war profiter part. War (or even tiny illusion of it) is very good for business [Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #34]. When I started as Terran I couldn't figure out how to progress to big $$$ (without easy way of selling Katana and buying Transport(s) ) when there is always war in sector near me. But suddenly it got to me that you need to mop up every battle zone from ejected missiles/lasers and you can earn so much that you don't know what to do with that cash (not every starbase/dock allow selling non-Terran/Commonwealth hardware).

But as I didn't spend any money on AP I can live with very limited additions to TC.

[gandy|UKCS|]

I brought Ap and i dont regret it at all, if they do add the older plots then that would be sweet for me as the updated game engine is great for me.

Playing AP makes me want to play TC as i want more plots and story lines to follow but i also like the changes the to universe as well.

War is subjective anyway but if they added sector take over scripts so the terran and argon could fully take over a sector that would be epic even more so if as a trader ( non argon or terran trader ) we could help both as we see fit with supply and demand as traders take the side of money and not politics

The room for expansion is high with AP and what has been created for us

DLC is always a strange thing and i do class AP as DLC even though it was not added to TC but built on the engine of TC.

[shireknight]

The main thing that got me really excited about AP was the war aspect, where we were led to beleive that we would be able to help make a difference in the outcome of the war.

I have not yet completed the plot, but from what I gather, the "war sectors" (blinking red) never progress past Jupiter, Asteroid Belt, Heretics End, Circle of Labor, Omicron Lyrae, and Treasure Chest. Someone please correct me if I am wrong and if it can actually expand past that though!

Reinforcments seem to be of the "unlimited" variety. Doesn't matter how many enemies you kill, they will keep simply spawning at the gates. All the weapons and missiles that are on the ships do not come from the economy, but are simply spawned on the new ships as far as I can tell. That means that the strength of the economy for either sides apparently makes not a shred of difference in either side's ability to wage wage. That also means there is no opportunity to become a war porifiteer, selling weapons to either sides for use in their conflict, because their weapons apprently have never come from a factory at all.

Combat seems much improved, but the game suffers sadly from combat having any real influence on the universe, other than maybe destroying some valuable player owned ships.

There is no war, only a faint illusion of a war.

Ah I'm glad I kept an open mind about the war now. When Ego mentioned there would be a war going on that we would be able to influence I didn't see how they would be able to do it properly with the factions actually building ships and funding everything from the economy in real time and having it so that one side could in fact win by taking out the others and judging by your post I was right to be sceptical

Maybe just maybe the modders can build on what Egosoft have started and turn it into a proper war.

[paulms1980]

what is the last mission for the plot? im hoping that what ive done so fair is not the end.....
has anyone found any way to get the corporations to work like they did in TC?

[bluenog143]

The GOD in X3 is the "thing" that spams ships, stations, etc. That is why I am waiting for the ETNO Chronicles mod for X3TC to come out. Check it out here.

[SilverDragonLord]

i am also abit disapointed with the way the war aspect has been added, the sectors just go red and never really change, they just warp in where ever they want and as he said no matter how many times we shoot them all down and secure a sector its pointless, they just come back, i would have preferred a tug of war style of war in which we have to secure the red sector that is closest to our sector, enemy sectors red, sector in conflict yellow and secure green and have to secure each sector in a line in either direction in order to proceed to the next would have been far more fun and give more of a sense of accomplishment, idk if the current engine is capable of that but it would be nice, if not cant wait for rebirth

[Threesixtyci]

Exactly what were you expecting for 10 bucks. AP is really nothing more than an arc from X3 to X-Rebirth, story wise. And nothing more than a few slapped on mods for the X3 engine.

[nielsw]

Maybe just maybe the modders can build on what Egosoft have started and turn it into a proper war.

AP was mostly made by modders, if I understand this correctly...


I must admit, I'm dissapointed with the war too, and the questline that goes with it as well.


1) That war is already in full swing when you start playing... why???

I think the war should have started as part of the quest line, so the player is involved in it.


2) As far as the original post, that would have been nice, but I didn't expect the full economy integration, ala RTS games...

It would be nice if the X series was founded on a solid RTS footing, but if you remember how the economic stuff was in the first game, you know it was just an addon to a space sim, rather than the foundation for it.

3) The plot ends without the slightest semblance of a climax, I had to triple check to realize I had already finished it, when no more calls came.

4) The guy that keeps popping up, telling you to fly to system xyz and check why our troops are getting beaten up, or where we're making a big push forward is never correct. You jump to the system he mentioned and find nothing going on.

5) After you're done with the plot and find that the war is just a static affair that keeps going on in the same way indefinitely, regardless of what the player does, you just want the annoying military announcer to shut up...

6) I haven't found any way to end this war, or the announcer. Yet, I find the other improvements, (additional ships, AI etc) in AP worthwhile.


So here's a request for someone to make a script that will settle the war, so you can play X3AP normally, in place of X3TC.

Better than a script would of course be another quest line, where the player can do something to end the war. It would be an optional download, so whoever enjoys the perpetual war for any reason can keep it.

[A5PECT]

The thing is...

Spoiler

Show

The war only ends when the gate network is shut down.

It would be a little difficult to play X3 without any gates.

So it's really just lore getting in the way of gameplay. I do agree that the war system could be done much more dynamically than it is now. Even if it were still centered around the same area, it would be nice if the battle lines would shift back and forth a little bit, maybe even have each side launch small, surgical surprise attacks behind enemy lines that the player could take part in/respond to.

Again, I agree that the new concepts introduced in AP seem rather rushed (I'm looking at the stock market in addition to the war), but the improvements to existing gameplay are good. I think of AP as a patch+1 for Terran Conflict.

[Tenakakhan64]

Im not sure about you guys but my battlelines have shifted back and foward alot.

Playing as a terran ive lost asteroid belt (you know this happens when all the stations go red and become argon) multiple times.
Captured heretics end only to loose it again then capture it back and also take and loose circle of labour.
Im still flying the starting ship tho so i cant do much in the battles besides kill the fightersand assist the cap ship allies. im Hoping that you can make more of a difference in larger ships later.

My only problem besides the fact that only the red ringed sectors seem to be war enabled is that occasionally i loose a sector for no reason. i killed every enemy ship in heretics end then jumped away with loot to sell only to imediatly get the message that we had lost the sector.

currently in my game terrans own heretics end and circle of labour but dont own asteroid belt which makes the terran econ a little broken

[shishikyuu]

I was pretty exciting about this addon and was planning to buy it fairly shortly but hearing this it's kind of a let down.

to me there's no point to the general improvements if you can't even influence the war going on. it'll just annoy the crap out of you on every twist and turn.

the stock market feature is also very lame if all it adds to the game is a fairly easy way to make money. the idea of adding a stock market is exciting only if it's actually tied into the actual economy!

[Falcrack]

Im not sure about you guys but my battlelines have shifted back and foward alot.

Playing as a terran ive lost asteroid belt (you know this happens when all the stations go red and become argon) multiple times.
Captured heretics end only to loose it again then capture it back and also take and loose circle of labour.

Sure it says your side may have "captured" or "lost a few sectors, but they are always the same set of sectors. Jupiter, Asteroid belt, Heretics End, Circle of Labor, Omicron Lyare, and Treasure Chest. Nothing else, ever. There is little to no sense of real progression going on. There have been some good mods that incorporate sector takeovers. I would have understood if they kept the war at a stalemate like this until the plots were completed, or the palyer reaches a certain fight or trade rank, and then let a sector takeover script become active. Maybe something that while it doesn't fully take rely on the economy for reinforcements as I would like, but at least maybe takes into account number of sectors or factories to determine resupply rate.

As it is, participation in this war is pointless, and while it does provide some opportunities for observing nice big battles, each victory is completely hollow, with no long term impact on the state of the game.

But as others have mentioned, the AI combat improvements and changes to ship and missile balance are on the whole positive changes. The game falls short of what I was hoping it would be, but it can still be enjoyable without having to participate in the war.

They should have let us finish the plot, then open everything up in terms of military expansion, and forget about lore getting in the way of gameplay. Or maybe give us an option to enable sector takeover, with the warning that it could seriously imbalance the universe.

I'm going to wait a bit on buying Rebirth, until after I can confirm that they have fixed what for me is the biggest annoyance of X3, which is that too many times they rely on scripting in ships out of thin air, rather than making the requirement that all NPC ships and equipment are made in the same way that the player does. As long as they keep relying on scripting in units as a crutch, the X games will only have the illusion of having an actual economy and a dynamic universe.

[Afterburnerz]

Instead of spawning replacement ships in sector, a more rational solution would be to have the replacement fleet of Terran ships, for example, spawn at one of their shipyards after a few hours and then travel to the sector where the last fleet was destroyed.

This would be similar to the behaviour in X2 when the replacement Xenon ships travelled from the shipyard in Xenon sector 472 to Xenon sector 347 for example.


This would help to reduce the immediate impression that the

Reinforcments seem to be of the "unlimited" variety.

and would in some small way overcome the impression that -

Doesn't matter how many enemies you kill, they will keep simply spawning at the gates.

[WeriTis]

Afterbrunerz, that wouldn't work for one simple reason:

Valhallas don't fit through gates.

[TDKPS]

Afterbrunerz, that wouldn't work for one simple reason:

Valhallas don't fit through gates.

It P2Ps on top of your fleet and materializes, blowing everything to hell with it.

-TDKPS

[Poacher886]

Thanks guy's you have spoilt AP for me!!!!

I was hoping for a truely dynamic war where a race could be wiped out and busting a factions economy could reduce its ability to produce re-enforcements etc etc.

Scripted spawning makes light of everything in the universe...i would rather have unbalanced and unusal campaigns that were unpredicable each time than scrippted for balance!!

[Afterburnerz]

I like it !!!!

Great idea TDKS - kamikazi captain

It P2Ps on top of your fleet and materializes, blowing everything to hell with it.

[TDKPS]

It's not only an idea you know... I was crossing back to the Moon after a massive battle to test my newly built 7th Fleet - using CODEA Personnel -, when we reached the Asteroid Belt, I decided to tighten the formation. Valhalla P2P jumped on my position - must have been triggered by one of mine custom scripts - and took us all on a ride to meet Hades.

-TDKPS