Choublanc wrote:Burneyx wrote:...But the most important point for me against Steam are the customer rights.
I want to be able to give back games that dont work (with my money back).
I want to be able to sell used games (even if i have never done it in over 20 years, but i have the choice to do so)
I want to be able to give games for birthday or other presents whenever im inthe mood to do so!
My rights are protected by german law and i have no need to search for any excuse in this case
Steam isnt able to accept these rights, so it isnt on me to change the case......
Exactly!
In many ways, Steam is violating the European laws (tie in sales, for instance, and maybe others).
I would be curious to know if they have already been brought before a European court for that.
btw, this is an idea, just for fun some of us could maybe register a complaint! (Just joking. Or not?)
Sorry, but are you guys being serious about this? this isn't breaking any consumer laws at all. You guys should maybe read up on what the law is before posting stuff like this.
Steam is a form of DRM, it focus's on 1 purchase per person (blizzard etc focus on this sort of marketing and is perfectly respectable and more modern). Just like a lot of companies try to do. For example, 10 years ago DVD rentals used to be legal and popular, but now a lot of DVDs don't give the rights to do DVD rentals. ES have the rights to say what you do with the product once you purchase it. (just like Xbox and PSN have the rights to say what you can and cannot do to the hardware in your Consoles)
Also this is DLC, so once you purchase the game you can download it. Once you download it, it obviously won't be refundable as there is nothing stopping you from playing it once you have it. Your consumer rights change depending on the product, and with DLC it is important to make informed decisions before purchasing.
Also if the game doesn't work, you just download a new copy.
If you don't like the fact your restricted to keeping the game, then that's fair enough. But it doesn't somehow mean your consumer rights are somewhat broken or anything like that (which you're implying).
If you give XR away, then you will need to give them the key, but that doesn't mean you don't still (may) not have a copy yourself. Which means you could easily do copyright infringement.
As said before, the gaming market is using more of these methods for sales now, as it is more secure then the current DRM's in place. Yes it does restrict your purchase, but not your consumer rights. The rights you have for each purchase ALWAYS varies for each product.
fairywhipper wrote:if steam and onlne system is the future then the PC is dead for gaming...
what is the point of updating exepensive hardware to play games when you are FORCED into accepting the system, the EULA suggest that you agree, if you dont agree you dont play, but lets face it, by buyng a game, you dont buy it, you purchase a share of it and the owners maintain the rights, you just get to use it under their conditions, so in fact you are renting but at the moment with a one off fee. so now the future is you have to use steam and online system so that they can verify that you are using their system in the way they like. so solo offline games will not exist, because you must be online.
I have hoped that after 90 odd pages of grumbling, someone might have noticed that some of us were asking for a nonsteam version, what the topic has drifted into values of steam by steam lovers and others as labeled as steam haters (not directly or personely). somehow i dont think grumbling will be taken noticed and something done about a non steam version and so either i accept it or get out. i accept steam is the way forward for PC, so i'm getting out.
Face it, all the new games by the mass developers are focused away from the PC industry at the moment and must games are released on a console first then we PC gets the port even through most of the system uses PC for making the game. Even then, the PC version has to go online to be authorised to use. I think i will work on the game consoles, because you just put the disc into machine and then play... non of this authorising internet blahhhhhh because it wont be online. as for internet access, i will stay with a mobile phone, who needs fixed high speed lines.
You sir, don't know the consol market and where it is leading. The consoles are now going in the SAME direction as PCs. Having to Install Games or content to get the game to run. you are MORE resitricted on consols then you are PCs. As you cannot edit or modify the hardware of the console in anyway. Say you have a 300GB HD you can't plug that into the xbox without getting it locked. Even though it is your Console and your HD. You need to buy a Xbox HD to run on the xbox etc.
Also You can run the game in OFFLINE mode after activiation, most other DRM scan your system for illegal hacks or software. which in a lot of cases isn't just limited to that ONE game. Steam is much better for that.
Lets keep it real, your don't own **** of what you buy these days, there is ALWAYS limits and restrictions in place. You can only do some much with what you get and thats always been the case. There is nothing new here that hasn't already been in place and accepted for years.
A none-steam version won't fix anything for any of you, i can understand you want the personal choice to install steam or not etc. But regarding rights and limitations, you guys only see half the picture.
If you want to really OWN something and not be resitricted, Go Open Source... which no games, movies etc are. Not without some resitrctions one way or the other. Even ES doesn't fully own the game, they have restrictions as well by publishers and other factors. It's not just us that get resitricted...
