[SCRIPT] Military Base Response revamp v2.16 [2011-10-27]

[Mad_CatMk2]

@ThisisHarsh

FYI Serial Kicked is taking a break from X3 modding, so PG might be on hold for...a while

[Cascinova]

Hi ThisIsHarsh,

I started a new game with 2.15 and XRM 1.11 the other day...all is going well, default settings bar relations:

Argon - Boron - Friends
Argon - Paranid - Grudge
Boron - Split - hate
Paranid - Boron - Grudge.

However, once again, the Boron and Argon are fighting whenever their ships are together. It's worst in Getsu Fune, so maybe crossfire there but would expect them to kiss and make up really!

Cheers,

Where do you find the settings to make them friends or relations? I don't see that anywhere in my menu, all i see is how to set invasions and stuff like that on and off.

[Marvelous3175]

I have a few questions:
1.) What is a good difficult setting for the Pirate Guild if i want to use it together with MBRR ? MBRR is activated in my game for a few minutes and the raceses are overrunning the pirate sectors.

2.) Is anyone using MBRR together with Litcube's Revelation ?
I'm testing it right now but it would be nice if anyone who knows about problems with these two plugins could tell me. Thanks

[cptANGRIST]

- someone asked about if economy halts due to lost factories..
NO.. they will respawn in time. and also in new sectors, new owners will set up new factories in time..

(forexample in my game,
there are 2 terracorp headquarters in scionfire also ,3 free argon equipment docks and several other food factories )

and some sectors just wont spawn new factories, (cause maybe there is not any need of factories there) nopileos' Memorial has only 1 food factory and none spawned yet..


-- if you capture all pirate sector there will be still pirate spawns for fighting back.. also pirate bases sometimes spawn back in unknown sectors
(i have XRM so there are lots of unknown sectors that pirates still populate)
- i cant capture all pirate sectors, i set argons allowed to capture all pirate sectors but now they are not willing to captuer SE pirate sectors and contiue to say to me that they dont have order to invade those sectors
when i ask for sector takeover..maybe its a protection for wiping out pirates

[paulwheeler]

Hi Thisisharsh,

I have a little "feature" request...


Is it possible to allow military outposts to take resources from existing invasions to help defend under threat sectors?

At the moment, I am seeing the Boron going off and invading pirate sector after pirate sector, while one of their own sectors is overrun with Xenon on the other side of the map (eventually the Argon came to their aid and took out the Xenon).

Is this because the outposts are autonomous so don't pool resources against major threats, or is it because once an invasion starts it can't be aborted should another threat comes along? If they are autonomous this could be a problem as the rear guard tokens are per race. So if a particular outpost uses up all the tokens for an invasion, when another outpost over the other side of the universe detects a threat, it'll have no means of spawning defence once its jobs resources are destroyed.

I really feel as though defending existing territory should be a priority over invading other sectors, even it means one outpost commandeering resources from another.

[Scoob]

Good idea there Paul.

I'm seeing a similar scenario, however when the Argon come to help they end up turning on the Boron! Can't explain it, but it's dead funny - and good for me as a scavenger lol.

Cascinova: Check out the options in the MBRR Plugin Menu...you bind a key to it, press said key, select MBRR and LOADS of options appear. Remember, they are collapsed by default so you need to expand them. Plus you need to explicitly select the option to show relations. Not at Gaming PC so cannot check exact names of options at the moment.

Scoob.

[Cascinova]

I have a few questions:
1.) What is a good difficult setting for the Pirate Guild if i want to use it together with MBRR ? MBRR is activated in my game for a few minutes and the raceses are overrunning the pirate sectors.

2.) Is anyone using MBRR together with Litcube's Revelation ?
I'm testing it right now but it would be nice if anyone who knows about problems with these two plugins could tell me. Thanks

On 1) I've found in my games that no matter how high you set the Pirate guild settings, even on extremely strong, if you have MBRR installed and have the option set to enable races to "take over" pirate sectors, then THEY WILL take over pirate sectors. - Usually in rapid order - The pirates simply don't have the hardware to stop 2 or 3 (ive seen 3 M2s invading before) destroyers from other races.

If you want the pirate sectors to survive, make sure you set your MBRR settings only for invasions (if you still want to see invasions), but not for pirate sector takeovers.

[Cascinova]

Cascinova: Check out the options in the MBRR Plugin Menu...you bind a key to it, press said key, select MBRR and LOADS of options appear. Remember, they are collapsed by default so you need to expand them. Plus you need to explicitly select the option to show relations. Not at Gaming PC so cannot check exact names of options at the moment.

Scoob.

Ok I knew about the menu and opening the options, but I guess I missed the one that says "show relations", i will check that out.

thanks!

[ThisIsHarsh]

However, once again, the Boron and Argon are fighting whenever their ships are together. It's worst in Getsu Fune, so maybe crossfire there but would expect them to kiss and make up really!

I am currently tweaking ship logic so that ships (big and fighter ships) can break off an attack if a more optimal target is found. I will incorporate a check to break off attacks on allies.

Is it possible to allow military outposts to take resources from existing invasions to help defend under threat sectors?

At the moment, I am seeing the Boron going off and invading pirate sector after pirate sector, while one of their own sectors is overrun with Xenon on the other side of the map (eventually the Argon came to their aid and took out the Xenon).

Is this because the outposts are autonomous so don't pool resources against major threats, or is it because once an invasion starts it can't be aborted should another threat comes along? If they are autonomous this could be a problem as the rear guard tokens are per race. So if a particular outpost uses up all the tokens for an invasion, when another outpost over the other side of the universe detects a threat, it'll have no means of spawning defence once its jobs resources are destroyed.

I really feel as though defending existing territory should be a priority over invading other sectors, even it means one outpost commandeering resources from another.

This is literally something I was working on last night. You are right that the outposts are autonomous, but the rearguard tokens are shared. This is mostly for performance reasons. I try to create implicit intelligence, rather than explicit. By this I mean that intelligent threat response should arise spontaneously (low-CPU swarm intelligence), rather than being analytical (high-CPU number crunching).

My original hope with sharing the rearguard tokens across all outposts was that the outposts that most needed them (had higher frequency of calls for help) would naturally get to use more tokens. This does work, but not reliably. EDIT: just noticed, rearguard ships are per-race, not per-outpost like jobs spawned ships are.

A tweak I have just added is to prioritise defense calls over invasion calls, but this is still only prioritising at individual outposts, not for the whole race.

I have a couple of other ideas to explore in solving this as well.

[Scoob]

Hi,

Here's an idea...something I've been pondering for a while...

Most races hate the pirates and the Yaki, so they attack them given the opportunity. However, if a Kha'ak or Xenon invasion begins shouldn't the the Race and the Yaki/Pirates really join forces against the "hates everyone" common foe?

It sometimes seems odd that a Kha'ak Xenon invasion can go largely ignored if there are already far less hostile Pirate/Yaki attackers present.

The same might be true for (as in my game) the Split attacking the Boron. If two such fleets get jumped by a Xenon fleet might they not join forces...at least until the common enemy are defeated? Also, a successful combined fleet opertation against the Xenon for example might lead to a bit of a cease-fire between two otherwise waring races. Something to be reported by the Galactic News Network methinks

This might fit in nicely with your target re-priortisation you mentioned.

Just a thought

Scoob.

[ThisIsHarsh]

Hi,

Here's an idea...something I've been pondering for a while...

Most races hate the pirates and the Yaki, so they attack them given the opportunity. However, if a Kha'ak or Xenon invasion begins shouldn't the the Race and the Yaki/Pirates really join forces against the "hates everyone" common foe?

It sometimes seems odd that a Kha'ak Xenon invasion can go largely ignored if there are already far less hostile Pirate/Yaki attackers present.

The same might be true for (as in my game) the Split attacking the Boron. If two such fleets get jumped by a Xenon fleet might they not join forces...at least until the common enemy are defeated? Also, a successful combined fleet opertation against the Xenon for example might lead to a bit of a cease-fire between two otherwise waring races. Something to be reported by the Galactic News Network methinks

This might fit in nicely with your target re-priortisation you mentioned.

Just a thought

Scoob.

That would indeed be cool. However, it is not that easy, there is only a "find enemy" command, not a "find enemy with lowest notoriety" or anything. So to do this, I would have to write a script to cycle through all enemy ships visible and prioritise based on some calculation, which is performance heavy. But I will look into it.

[paulwheeler]

I try to create implicit intelligence, rather than explicit. By this I mean that intelligent threat response should arise spontaneously (low-CPU swarm intelligence), rather than being analytical (high-CPU number crunching).

Its this that makes your script stand out as one of the best for me. Simplicity (or not making things unnecessarily complicated) is the mark of a good script in my opinion.

The script engine is incredibly powerful, but often i find scripts that are doing things behind the scenes to keep a mirage of "immersion" which usually only the scriptor is aware of and the player never, ever notices, at tbe cost of precious cpu cycles.

To help outposts share resources you could assign each outpost a threat level, kind of like the defcon system, based on current enemy threats and invasions, using opposition ship classes and even race to evaluate it. So an outpost that is defending territory from a Xenon m2 has a high threat value, an outpost defending from pirate fighters has a medium threat level and an outpost that is performing invasions has a low threat value. You could then allow outposts with high threat levels to effectively "steal" resources from outposts with low threat levels. Once the threat is removed it gives the resources back.

[Marvelous3175]

Cascinova: Check out the options in the MBRR Plugin Menu...you bind a key to it, press said key, select MBRR and LOADS of options appear. Remember, they are collapsed by default so you need to expand them. Plus you need to explicitly select the option to show relations. Not at Gaming PC so cannot check exact names of options at the moment.

Scoob.

Ok I knew about the menu and opening the options, but I guess I missed the one that says "show relations", i will check that out.

thanks!

The correct option is "show/enable reputation modifiers" in the config menue.

What race reputation settings do i have to choose if i want to see race vs. race invasions and sector takeovers. Is "grudge" enough or do i need to take "hatred" ??

//edit: found the answer at page 20

[Cascinova]

Just a Suggestion, I don't know if it has already been mentioned. But what about having it be possible for Pirates to "take over" other sectors. I have seen pirate invasions but that might be due to "Pirate Guild". However, having Pirates and Yaki be able to "take over" other sectors would be cool, or even just the ability for them to be able to take back their previously owned sectors would be nice.

In my games I notice as soon as you turn on Pirate sector take overs, the other races immediately start taking over pirate sectors, almost like a cakewalk, even if you have Pirate Guild installed with pirates at a strong or very strong setting.

[/b]

[ThisIsHarsh]

Just a Suggestion, I don't know if it has already been mentioned. But what about having it be possible for Pirates to "take over" other sectors. I have seen pirate invasions but that might be due to "Pirate Guild". However, having Pirates and Yaki be able to "take over" other sectors would be cool, or even just the ability for them to be able to take back their previously owned sectors would be nice.

Yeah this has been suggested. I like to leave pirates to Pirate Guild, but if he's not updating, then I will think about how to do it.

One idea would be that any conquered sector where the General is killed becomes a Pirate sector (old owners dead, new owners cannot keep the peace). Naturally this would be optional. What do you guys think?

[cptANGRIST]

i dont want to look after every "GeneraL" for my ally race..

if it will be so difficult to allow pirates capture sector just like we allow other races to capture pirate sectors.. than yes for this babysitting generals..

but if it is not that hard, or cpu killer process, to make an option to allow pirates fight back for sectors and takeover them back, plus settin on pirates aggression and allow them to capture other sectors "maybe"
that really good..

[ThisIsHarsh]

@paulwheeler: missed your suggestion somehow.

I like the idea of having priorities, should have thought of that before. Will look into it.

[Marvelous3175]

Just a Suggestion, I don't know if it has already been mentioned. But what about having it be possible for Pirates to "take over" other sectors. I have seen pirate invasions but that might be due to "Pirate Guild". However, having Pirates and Yaki be able to "take over" other sectors would be cool, or even just the ability for them to be able to take back their previously owned sectors would be nice.

Yeah this has been suggested. I like to leave pirates to Pirate Guild, but if he's not updating, then I will think about how to do it.

One idea would be that any conquered sector where the General is killed becomes a Pirate sector (old owners dead, new owners cannot keep the peace). Naturally this would be optional. What do you guys think?

I don't think that this would be logical. For example: What is the connection between a Boron sector opressed by a Split General and the Pirates. Why would they join the pirates? They should be happy to rejoin the Boron nation.

I think yes you should give the pirates a (small) army to (re)take sectors, but they should do it less often than the other (normal) races. Their main purpose is to raid civil traiders not to fight a war. But they are pirates they can fight dirty. They could use mines, towers and a lot of bombers to protect their territory.
If you want the Pirate Guild to do the main job you could donate them ships and money like the player is able to (if that's pssible). The problem is, the people woh don't use Pirate Guild wouldn't have that and from what i have seen in the game the Pirate Guild is not protecting whole sectors.

[MegaBurn]

Any known issues with excessive ship spawning?

I'm doing an endurance test with about 90 scripts and XRM 1.11, so far the only major problem is thousands of ships spawning from various shipyards, flying to sectors with military bases, and just idling in a cloud. Disabling MBRR via the uninstall menu option stops this behavior. If there are any reports of problems like this that would help with troubleshooting it.

[ThisIsHarsh]

Any known issues with excessive ship spawning?

I'm doing an endurance test with about 90 scripts and XRM 1.11, so far the only major problem is thousands of ships spawning from various shipyards, flying to sectors with military bases, and just idling in a cloud. Disabling MBRR via the uninstall menu option stops this behavior. If there are any reports of problems like this that would help with troubleshooting it.

Hmm. This is a problem I had in previous versions, but have rigorously tried to sort it out, and thought I had since there have been no reports of this problem in recent versions. One thing you could try is disable Rearguard ships in the menu. Also, disable invasions - it sounds like lots of battles are going on and ships are dieing and being respawned.

One idea would be that any conquered sector where the General is killed becomes a Pirate sector (old owners dead, new owners cannot keep the peace). Naturally this would be optional. What do you guys think?

I don't think that this would be logical. For example: What is the connection between a Boron sector opressed by a Split General and the Pirates. Why would they join the pirates? They should be happy to rejoin the Boron nation.

I was thinking more as in the sector descends into anarchy, out of control of any race, and thus marked as Pirate sector. In theory, there is no Pirate 'race', pirates are all individuals (or members of a guild).

I think yes you should give the pirates a (small) army to (re)take sectors, but they should do it less often than the other (normal) races. Their main purpose is to raid civil traiders not to fight a war. But they are pirates they can fight dirty. They could use mines, towers and a lot of bombers to protect their territory.
If you want the Pirate Guild to do the main job you could donate them ships and money like the player is able to (if that's pssible). The problem is, the people woh don't use Pirate Guild wouldn't have that and from what i have seen in the game the Pirate Guild is not protecting whole sectors.

I never thought of just using Pirate Guild's built-in feature to donate ships and money, really good idea that, I will experiment with it.