Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[The Q]

Cycrow, you seem to be quite keen on steam? You're mod matey, which means you're supposed to be impartial. Instead, you appear to be plugging steam and dismissing the people posting on the forums as a drop in the ocean. Might one respectfully highlight that us 'tiny minority' are the sole reason you even get to be a moderator.

And might I respectfully point out the fact that moderators are forum users like everyone else, who doesn't work directly for egosoft, in the sense of getting paid, and have therefore no power of decision, when it comes to the copy protection system and channel of distributions Egosoft and DeepSilver use.

[TTD]

This is not actually that common, and has only happened to me once, when i pre-ordered The Witcher 2. As there was no open to preload the game before release when it was released, everyone was trying to download it at the same time, giving lots of people problems. These were usually fixed by waiting a few hours or trying to switch servers for a better one.

And for the record.this can be true of any game download.

I have even had to switch in order to download Egosoft's patches.

Or when I use the 3G dongle, even waiting for the 0200-0600 time period to download updates for X games.

[Texhnolyzed]

I used Steam a few times, with consistent problems and the last straw was half life genre where steam was regularly breaking the installations, losing my checkpoints, steam servers frequently rejecting logins and, worse, causing errors on other non steam games (Never did figure out how). In the end I couldn't uninstall it so it was a system rebuild. I'm not going through that again. I'm certainly planning to play Rebirth but if ES steam it, they won't be getting my money.

Good thing that all those problems are highly unlikely to happen, especially more than once for the same person.

[Scoob]

Hi,

Thing is, based on my experiences, like aXeL_UK I too bought HL2 on DVD but had to activate it via steam and had a bit of a nightmare.

Years later I try out steam to download a simple demo and, while much improved, things still didn't go smoothly. If eveything had gone swimmingly then I'd not be worried, however the fact that I had two different "server" issues (according to the steam dialogue box) as well as a strange installation error initially sorta dents my confidence somewhat.

My initial "something is blocking steam" issues I expected and, as part of my test, I let it fail to see how steam would react - it wasn't so friendly in that regard. Still, local issues I can resolve, a server-side one I'd likely just have to wait.

I do see that the "just try it again" approach genuinely does seem the best advice with steam, as does "be patient, steam will get there eventually". Also "it may say it's ready, but is it really?" is also valid as one part of steam may say "done!" whereas anothers still sayings "downloading". Again, this is just my experience.

It's true that issues are not just limited to Steam, however I never had an issue with Tages as well as numerous other copy protection methods over the years - and I have two shelves filled with DVD cases and another with classic boxes. Though, like many, I didn't really like them in principle.

If steam can deliver a good gameplay experience then I'm fine with it, it's just that it hasn't so far.

Being single-player I hope steam isn't quite so essential to playing XR (in an always on-line respect) as something that trues needs to be connected at all times. We shall see.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Flashback moment:

Elite on my Spectrum came with a lens-lock device - anyone remember those? Dead clever & worked for me, but not very popular! lol.

[Alan Phipps]

Yes I liked the DVD release method for X-games in the past yet I shall be buying and trying XR when it comes out. If I find the Steam 'experience' is not to my satisfaction or causes limitations in playing the game then I shall be looking to my purchase warranty to recover my cash. I hope and fully expect that it will not come to that.

@ Scoob: Ah yes the ZX version Elite red plastic lens-lock. Depending on the screen size and curvature of the tiny B&W TVs I was using at the time, there were some letters I could never make out!

[Observe]

Did we ever get an answer to the question: Will we need to connect to Steam after we validate the DVD version?

I can see (barely) activating through Steam if the Steam Client never has to run again after that (except perhaps to patch the game).

I'm not talking about Steam offline mode. I'm talking about completely uninstalling Steam after the game is validated. Will we be able to do that?

[TTD]

Elite on my Spectrum came with a lens-lock device - anyone remember those? Dead clever & worked for me, but not very popular! lol.

vaguely...dusting down my memory chips... ah those were the days....100 to 200 page manuals.

To play game ,please insert 4th word in 3rd line, 2nd paragraph on page 149.

[chew-ie]

I'm not talking about Steam offline mode. I'm talking about completely uninstalling Steam after the game is validated. Will we be able to do that?

That one was already answered (several pages ago) - don´t pin me down to the exact page, but the situation is like this:

You won´t be able to deinstall Steam AND be able to run X:Rebirth afterwards, as Steamapps are launched through the Steamclient.

Think about it as Steam being the future OS for games, and without the OS, the games don´t work.

[Observe]

That one was already answered (several pages ago) - don´t pin me down to the exact page, but the situation is like this:

You won´t be able to deinstall Steam AND be able to run X:Rebirth afterwards, as Steamapps are launched through the Steamclient.

Thank you for the clarification.

[Scoob]

Lol,

I still have my boxed copy, as well as my Spectrum 48k - in the original box with all manuals...

Anyway...

IF it were possible to install XR via steam, validate it, then remove the steam client all together then that would be perfect. Assuming there was an option to download patches and apply manually of course. I very much doubt removing the client will be an option however - well, unless in a year or so Egosoft release one of their special updates...

I suspect that we will need to have the steam client installed and running at all times and use it to first authenticate then get any patches. When not needing to patch however I hope that offline mode will be fine. Though saying that, if there are achievements in the game steam would want to upload those at some point I imagine...

Not being a steam user recently (demo test aside) I do not know of any steam game that doesn't need the steam client at least running in order to work. Anyone with a large steam collection will likely have to have it installed, so if someone knows of other titles where they've been able to remove steam and still play...that'd be interesting.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[X2-Eliah]

It's not possible. This has been said time and time again in this very thread.

[thetack]

has anyone or is anyone thinking of organising the relevent posts to PM Bernd of issues raised in this thread ?

[TTD]

It may not be possible for us,but Bernd has said that in the unlikely event that Steam cease to exist,Egosoft will enable us to continue playing without Steam.

Whether that means a new .exe install , or an overwrite of existing files or something ,he has not explained fully.

So I suspect there is some code work they have,which "modders" will not have.

@ thetack

If you are offering,and no one else has done so,then feel free.

[Dantrithor]

You can not make games installed through steam run without the steam platform running too (either on or offline)

[TTD]

You can not make games installed through steam run without the steam platform running too (either on or offline)

Bernd...

IF Steam would ever go down, we would make sure there is a "non Steam" patch just like we did for any of the DRM systems we used on X2, X3 and X3TC after one year.

[Alee Enn]

It may not be possible for us,but Bernd has said that in the unlikely event that Steam cease to exist,Egosoft will enable us to continue playing without Steam.

Then why in blue hell can we not simply have the download WITHOUT Steam?
If Egosoft are already planning this, why do they insist on forcing us to use Steam?
Can't Bernd & co see that THAT is why this "tiny minority" are so against Steam to the point of refusing to buy Rebirth if it requires us to touch Steam?

[greypanther]

I am trying very hard to get my head around the idea of rebirth being Steam only, I truly am; I want the game. I have got so much pleasure from X2 and X3TC, as well as these forums.

In most ways I could manage, unhappily with steam, its just this whole idea of a third party controling games I have legitimately purchased. I just cannot get past that one. I perhaps could the others, but not that.

Hell I am going to go and find out more about the cloud, its the future.

Is it me or is this thread just going around and around now?
Perhaps time to shut this thread?

[StarSword]

I just realized I voted "activation and updates". Is there a way to change my vote to "wouldn't use Steam ever"?

As I said before, I've had no problems with Steam. But that means nothing, as I've never used it.

A synopsis of my last post: forcing people to use Steam cuts devoted X-fans who have lousy Internet service off from XR. Some people use 3G dongles. Maybe they can change ISPs if they think it's worth it to get Rebirth. I can't: my family's ISP, HughesNet, is the better of exactly two that provide even rudimentary service where I live (not including dial-up).

If it weren't for the DVD version of X3 Gold Edition that I found while window-shopping at my local GameStop, I wouldn't even be having this conversation because I would have no idea that the X-Universe even existed.

About a month back, somebody on the X-Universe forum who works at an ISP in Europe said that he was hearing a lot of these complaints. He said we were complaining about "how things are, not how things will be."

I promptly emptied the Internet equivalent of a fully loaded Skirnir into his face. I shot back, "When? Ten years from now? Because that's exactly how long we've been trying to get high-speed Internet."

Put simply, it would appear that a steady ~40% of those polled, both here and in the German forum, either won't or can't use XR if Steam is a requirement. Egosoft and Deep Silver should face reality: Non-Steam DVDs are not obsolete as a distribution medium, and are (apparently) more reliable than Steam anyway. And Steam also has a lousy track record in customer service (refusing to even admit they're having problems, etc.), compared to the excellent work done by the Tech Support forum here.

While I'm at it, I'd also be willing to pay extra for a paper manual (not PDF, underline) that I can flip through on my way home from GameStop.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

It may not be possible for us,but Bernd has said that in the unlikely event that Steam cease to exist,Egosoft will enable us to continue playing without Steam.

Then why in blue hell can we not simply have the download WITHOUT Steam?
If Egosoft are already planning this, why do they insist on forcing us to use Steam?
Can't Bernd & co see that THAT is why this "tiny minority" are so against Steam to the point of refusing to buy Rebirth if it requires us to touch Steam?

Because Egosoft are probably legally bound to use Steam. They would only use a patch if Steam for some reason when down, which is unlikely.

[TTD]

I just realized I voted "activation and updates". Is there a way to change my vote to "wouldn't use Steam ever"?

To negate you vote vote for the changed option.
To make your changed option valid vote a second time.

re once to void,twice to re-vote.