EGOSOFT and Deep Silver announce X Rebirth (updated 2011-07-29)

[StarSword]

I've been away for several months. Do we have a definite release date yet, or are they still saying "fourth quarter 2011"?

While I'm at it, is the movie, Nautilus, still a go?

Yep, stay tuned for the release date in 205 days!

You talking about X:R or Nautilus?

[perkint]

Nautilus. I am not completely sure, but wasn't that the film based on N-S's DiD story? If so, can you remember what day of the year that story was released on? I'm guessing it was 160 days ago. So 205 days in the future would make it the same day of the year. Which happens to be a day you can't always believe everything you hear...



BTW - the release date has (sort of officially) been pushed back to "2012"

Tim

[Nanook]

....
X series are niche because, extremely difficult learning curve and lack of plot, if you bother to read any review, you work out that very easily.

Sorry, but it's considered a 'niche game' because of the niche genre it's in, i.e., a space trading combat sim.

X series had a lot of exposure on early iterations

Just the opposite, in fact. THQ did a terrible job of advertising and promoting X-BTF and X-Tension. And Enlight and Deepsilver didn't do that great with X2 or X3R, either. TC has actually gotten, by far, the most exposure of any of the games, from what I can see.

...waning slowly as those 2 points didn't get addressed....

Waning? It's been my impression that each succeeding version of the game has actually sold more than the previous one. If it had been "waning" as you claim, then Deepsilver/Koch would've dropped them a long time ago, wouldn't you think?

[perkint]

Lehan stated that adding sophisticated physics simulation would have an adverse effect on the players therefore there will hardly be one.

sigh...

And (personally) - thank God for that! The last thing I want is real physics being the basis for the gameplay. I want it to be fun, not realistic! And if that involves some tricks where cap ship CPU's interact with all smaller ships in close proximity and adjust their flight paths to use the cap ship as a point of reference (to an extent) then I'm quite happy with that.

As always, we don't really have enough info yet as to how this is really going to affect gameplay...

Tim

[henkbein]

...not the forces involved....it would also draw shielded stations off their position, quickly turning a sector into smoking rubble....

Disagree.
I find pjknibbs's 'non-gravitational' explanation perfectly acceptable: 'there might be some other effect at work ... shields ...'.
Perhaps electromagnetic interaction ?
If gravitation is not involved (gravitation is a long range potential among the basic forces of nature) then Gazz's theory does not hold without him providing some solid scientific proof

[Santi]

@ Nanook

I recognize my use of "niche" was not right, as I was referencing to the total number of players who could play the game but didnt because of the difficult start and lack of plot.

I was an avid reader of computer magazines and true, X-BTF and X-Tension didn't get much public exposure. But X2 was all over the place when it came out, mostly because of the graphics (as is usual in computer magazines) and the open ended nature of the game. X3R was the same, but openly criticizing that, the problems of the plots and learning curve was not addressed from X2.
X3TC was slammed and the reviews didn't even cover half a page. Gamespot doesn't have a review for it for example.

Don't confuse exposure with sales, they are two very different things.

[Nanook]

...
I find pjknibbs's 'non-gravitational' explanation perfectly acceptable: 'there might be some other effect at work ... shields ...

I don't find any explanation acceptable, at least none given to date. The only 'natural' force that could be involved would have to be gravity. And that's orders of magnitude too weak to affect such small objects. So any such effect would have to be artificial, and if so, there's no plausible reason a capital ship couldn't simply use it as a weapon against attacking fighters.

At the moment, I can't think of any non-immersion breaking mechanism that would account for such behaviour, unless it only applies to 'wingmen' of a capital ship where the capital automatically controls the positioning of it's smaller companions. Anything else, it seems to me, is implausible beyond belief.

I'll reserve final judgment until the game is released or until Egosoft gives us more info about it, but I'm not sure I like the sound of this feature, at all. I sincerely hope Egosoft is taking into consideration the relative scientific savvy of its main fan base, and not simply throwing in 'magic' just to make things work the way they want.

Edit: Typo fixed for the pedant.

[Mightysword]

@ Nanook
X3TC was slammed and the reviews didn't even cover half a page. Gamespot doesn't have a review for it for example.

Because it's treated as mostly an expansion pack than a new game?

Don't confuse exposure with sales, they are two very different things.

Maybe, but ... people slamming the current PR afford is on the ground that the game should make more publicity so it can sale more ... I mean, that's the whole point isnt it? If you admit sale is increasing, so exactly what is "wanning"? Advertisement? But if you sale is increasing than doesn't that prove that what most people claiming on this thread is just their own bad reasoning. Else, it seems you want to see the series to parade on the media for the lol rather than for the shake of sale. It's like waking a person who are already in deep sleep so he can take his sleeping pill

[Gazz]

The only way to create such an effect would be to ditch the idea of "engines" completely.

A capital ship's only means of propulsion would be to create an array of massive singularities in front of the ship and either move them (WTF?) or create them temporarily.
Either way it would probably require the energy of a small sun to pull it off. Oh, and a considerable disregard for common sense and general public safety.

However, that's how you could generate this exact kind of "gravity flow" and give a fighter the exact same acceleration vector as the capital ship.

So, a clear case of "Yes, but WHAT?".

[Nanook]

....
So, a clear case of "Yes, but WHAT?".

In other words MAGIC.

[Oldman]

....
So, a clear case of "Yes, but WHAT?".

In other words MAGIC.

Oh no!.....the main character and his sidekick are going to be, Harry Potter and his co-pilot...Hermione Granger!

Well, 'Harry's' not so bad a name....
Maybe Hagred's going to be piloting a Split 'Dragon'?

Oldman

[perkint]

At the moment, I can't think of any immersion breaking mechanism that would account for such behaviour

Being a pedant, but I think you mean "any non immersion breaking [...]"

Tim

[Santi]

Expansion packs get reviewed there too.

And maybe, no. They are two different things. Interest of the press (digital and printed) is waning, hence exposure is waning. The press has two issues with the series, lack of plot and difficult curve, till those are not addressed they don't see the franchise progressing and becoming a top seller and worthy of their time and space. That is why, the current direction the game is taking is about a solid single player experience with a plot and a revamp of the Interface while maintaining the sandbox experience.

It is a brilliant game, really really good game, with an amazing community, loyal fan base and probably the most helpful forum there is. It is a franchise screaming to get out there and sell millions and is hold back because those 2 things.

[softweir]

...
I find pjknibbs's 'non-gravitational' explanation perfectly acceptable: 'there might be some other effect at work ... shields ...

I don't find any explanation acceptable, at least none given to date. The only 'natural' force that could be involved would have to be gravity. And that's orders of magnitude too weak to affect such small objects. So any such effect would have to be artificial, and if so, there's no plausible reason a capital ship couldn't simply use it as a weapon against attacking fighters.

At the moment, I can't think of any immersion breaking mechanism that would account for such behaviour, unless it only applies to 'wingmen' of a capital ship where the capital automatically controls the positioning of it's smaller companions. Anything else, it seems to me, is implausible beyond belief.

I'll reserve final judgment until the game is released or until Egosoft gives us more info about it, but I'm not sure I like the sound of this feature, at all. I sincerely hope Egosoft is taking into consideration the relative scientific savvy of its main fan base, and not simply throwing in 'magic' just to make things work the way they want.

....
So, a clear case of "Yes, but WHAT?".

In other words MAGIC.

You mean, not like Jumpgates, which are magic doors dressed up as "wormholes", or SETA which is run-the-game-faster magic dressed up as "Singularity Engine Time Acceleration", or magically slow, visible laser beams, or magically huge ground-to-space cargo ships that don't fry an entire city while lifting off despite using gigantic amounts of nuclear energy to get into orbit...

There's always been magic in the X Universe. There's just old, familiar magic and new, unfamiliar magic. So far as I'm concerned, what matters is not how the magic is rationalised, or which hand the writers use while handwaving it, but whether the game mechanic makes combat exciting, interesting and balanced.

As for "you can fly only one ship but you have these drone-controlling goggles" idea, I wonder what, exactly, constitutes a drone? I await Egosoft's answer to that (in the form of the game, of course) with interest!

(BTW, I think you meant "non-immersion-breaking behaviour"?)

[Nanook]

At the moment, I can't think of any immersion breaking mechanism that would account for such behaviour

Being a pedant, but I think you mean "any non immersion breaking [...]"

Tim

Yes. Yes, I did. Thank you, Mr. Pedant, err, perkint, and it's now been fixed in my post, too.

[Nanook]

...
You mean, not like Jumpgates, which are magic doors dressed up as "wormholes",

Wormholes for travel are a staple of many sci-fi stories, and are thought to be theoretically possible, if not now, then maybe sometime in the distant future.

or SETA which is run-the-game-faster magic dressed up as "Singularity Engine Time Acceleration",

If you read the lore, SETA is actually a device that tricks the mind into thinking time is flowing faster. It doesn't actually speed up time. So it's in reality not that different from the cryosleep mechanism proposed for long space voyages, which is also theoretically, if not currently, possible.

or magically slow, visible laser beams,

Which aren't true laser beams, despite the misnaming. If you read the descriptions of the weapons, you'll see that most are described as a 'bullet' of, say, High Energy Plasma, or Accelerated Particles or Plasma Pulses. Basically, most are simply balls of energy projected at a target, an unguided 'energy missile', if you will.

or magically huge ground-to-space cargo ships that don't fry an entire city while lifting off despite using gigantic amounts of nuclear energy to get into orbit...

Not sure where you get this from, since you're assuming a drive mechanism that's not stated in the game as well as assuming they're lifting off from the middle of some city. Even modern rockets don't do that.

So no, your examples don't equate to 'magic' in the sense that I used it. The current game mechanisms are if not currently theoretically possible, at least they're plausible within the accepted 'norms' of current sci-fi. So we can excuse and accept them as 'future technology' that don't depart too much from current scientific understandings. However, the proposed mechanism to keep small ships close to large ones seems to be totally implausible, without further knowledge of how it 'works'. Perhaps there is a plausible sci-fi explanation for it, but right now it seems simply 'magical', much like the bolts that come from Harry Potter's wand.

[perkint]

We do what we can

Tim

[shebi01]

Of course anti-gravity is also a staple of many science fiction stories, so with an anti-gravity mechanism you theoretically could also have a gravity beam, push or pull.

So maybe what they are talking about is a focusable gravity beam that can pull smaller ships in to the bigger one.

Voila.. solved.

[perkint]

Except as Nanook said, if they can do that, why don't they use it as a weapon?

Tim

[Mightysword]

A capital ship's only means of propulsion would be to create an array of massive singularities in front of the ship and either move them (WTF?) or create them temporarily.

Or they can create a psychic-drive like the Lyrr in Sword of The Star, the ship doesn't move but instead perform a quick series of small teleportation. This is why I hate contemporary science, if you're going to go sci-fi, go all the way, like most anime do and maybe we have something awesome