[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[surferx]

Glad I could help. While you're at it, you should back up your current files. If you install an update wrong and the save won't load you can always go back to the set up that works.

[Darkone8752]

Couple of quick questions:

Are there any plans for a bit of a factory rebalancing? Mostly to try and address the issue of a practically perpetual lack of equipment, as well as how some weapon forges take inane amounts of time per cycle, only to produce a single weapon...

What about some changes between the races? Like the Argon/OTAS lack of, as phrased earlier, "Heavy assault" m7? The Boron Thresher also seems particularly weak for an assault ship, though I've yet to see the firing angles on its side turrets in the case that they can fire forward. Overall, especially with CMOD, PBE/ISRs give Split and Paranid a huge advantage over Argon/Boron, with the way they shred fighter shields like candy, though this may be a point for the CMOD thread.

[aka1nas]

Couple of quick questions:

Are there any plans for a bit of a factory rebalancing? Mostly to try and address the issue of a practically perpetual lack of equipment, as well as how some weapon forges take inane amounts of time per cycle, only to produce a single weapon...

IIRC, cycle times are auto-calculated by the engine based on the value of the ware. I don't think you can cut the cycle times down, but maybe it would be possible to either add or swap the sizes of the weapon fabs so they produce more at once? They are currently all s-sized fabs. Personally, I wouldn't mind having L or even XL versions of most of the weapon fabs. The larger you go on weapons, the longer they take to produce. However, you also end up typically needing more of a given weapon as you go up in size as the ships that take them have more weapon hardpoints.

IIRC, having fabs with longer cycle times is better for overall performance anyway (the factory checking routines run less often). I think Ego already increased cycles times (and batch size) in a few patches in order to help boost TC performance.

[surferx]

Still trying to get PAR SY going. I took the EMR compatibility pack cat/dat out and renumbered down the higher cat/dats. Reloaded save and found every ship I owned had lost hull percentage from 25 to 50 %.

[paulwheeler]

Still trying to get PAR SY going. I took the EMR compatibility pack cat/dat out and renumbered down the higher cat/dats. Reloaded save and found every ship I owned had lost hull percentage from 25 to 50 %.

If you're running the SRM you don't need the EMR compatibility pack. This would block the SRM/hull TShips and is undoubtedly the cause of your problems.

This is why all of a sudden you're seeing reduced hulls. The hull pack was being blocked before. Just use the included script to reload all your ship's hulls.

The SRM has EMR compatibility built in. It does say this in the CMOD4 thread...

[paulwheeler]

Couple of quick questions:

Are there any plans for a bit of a factory rebalancing? Mostly to try and address the issue of a practically perpetual lack of equipment, as well as how some weapon forges take inane amounts of time per cycle, only to produce a single weapon...

What about some changes between the races? Like the Argon/OTAS lack of, as phrased earlier, "Heavy assault" m7? The Boron Thresher also seems particularly weak for an assault ship, though I've yet to see the firing angles on its side turrets in the case that they can fire forward. Overall, especially with CMOD, PBE/ISRs give Split and Paranid a huge advantage over Argon/Boron, with the way they shred fighter shields like candy, though this may be a point for the CMOD thread.

No plans for factory rebalancing at the moment. There is room I guess for an Factory Rebalance Mod... To be honest, its quite a complex issue. As aka1nas says, cycle times are set by price and I think volume plays a part too. Also jobs needs to be tweaked to take account of the changes in factory cycles etc...

What I did think about is a simple script which from time to time, refreshes EDs with certain wares, and maybe factories with essentials. I also think it would be more useful to have EDs that could store more that 2 PPC - I think that is primarily set by the volume of the weapon.

The other idea I had was to create some black market EDs selling weapons. Again these could be stocked up using scripts to keep a steady supply. Apparently if you make these AI EDs into HQs they can store more wares...

I can't add an Argon heavy assault M7 until someone comes up with a new model. I'm hopefull that Cadius will come up with something soon.

Raise the weapon stuff in the CMOD thread. I have improved the PRG for the next release to even the balance. Also the ISR has been slowed slightly so that it doesn't hit fighters quite as easily. I'm well aware that things aren't quite right yet.

[Gazz]

What I did think about is a simple script which from time to time, refreshes EDs with certain wares, and maybe factories with essentials. I also think it would be more useful to have EDs that could store more that 2 PPC - I think that is primarily set by the volume of the weapon.

See Globals.txt, search for DOCK.

The other idea I had was to create some black market EDs selling weapons. Again these could be stocked up using scripts to keep a steady supply. Apparently if you make these AI EDs into HQs they can store more wares...

Multiple HQs used to create all kinds of unwanted side effects because the game still only (properly) supports one per game.

Hmm. An arms dealer dock. Pirate / Teladi / Split come to mind. =)
It would (obviously) buy a large array of weapons and a script could routinely do a little "behind the scenes" trading.
So if the PAC storage was full, half of those would be "sold off" and 1/4 of a different laser with a very low stock would be "bought" and appear in the inventory.

That way the AI (and the player) could supply those arms dealers and they would "produce" random rare laser types at somewhat of a loss.
It would also be a lot more stylish than "just" creating equipment via script and would create another outlet for the typically hard to sell lasers and missiles.

Not sure if such scripted docks would also have the "hardcoded" slow ware consumption that is one of the main purposes of AI docks.

[surferx]

Still trying to get PAR SY going. I took the EMR compatibility pack cat/dat out and renumbered down the higher cat/dats. Reloaded save and found every ship I owned had lost hull percentage from 25 to 50 %.

If you're running the SRM you don't need the EMR compatibility pack. This would block the SRM/hull TShips and is undoubtedly the cause of your problems.

This is why all of a sudden you're seeing reduced hulls. The hull pack was being blocked before. Just use the included script to reload all your ship's hulls.

The SRM has EMR compatibility built in. It does say this in the CMOD4 thread...

Yes, I see that now....

sorry for not reading fully.
thanks
[Edit]
Seeing the full effects of the last updates- maybe back to 0.87.....nice.... Wow.

[paulwheeler]

What I did think about is a simple script which from time to time, refreshes EDs with certain wares, and maybe factories with essentials. I also think it would be more useful to have EDs that could store more that 2 PPC - I think that is primarily set by the volume of the weapon.

See Globals.txt, search for DOCK.

Already did that - it only seems to affect player owned docks - not AI ones.

The other idea I had was to create some black market EDs selling weapons. Again these could be stocked up using scripts to keep a steady supply. Apparently if you make these AI EDs into HQs they can store more wares...

Multiple HQs used to create all kinds of unwanted side effects because the game still only (properly) supports one per game.

Hmm. An arms dealer dock. Pirate / Teladi / Split come to mind. =)
It would (obviously) buy a large array of weapons and a script could routinely do a little "behind the scenes" trading.
So if the PAC storage was full, half of those would be "sold off" and 1/4 of a different laser with a very low stock would be "bought" and appear in the inventory.

That way the AI (and the player) could supply those arms dealers and they would "produce" random rare laser types at somewhat of a loss.
It would also be a lot more stylish than "just" creating equipment via script and would create another outlet for the typically hard to sell lasers and missiles.

Not sure if such scripted docks would also have the "hardcoded" slow ware consumption that is one of the main purposes of AI docks.

That was what I was thinking. The trading could also be done via scripting, allowing for more variation over the prices and bypassing the limit on weapon numbers in docks - although that would mean I'd have to become good at scripting - unless you're interested in trying it Gazz?

[paulwheeler]

0.89 is now ready... just got to spend hours creating the damn SPKs now...

Are you sure you still want SPK versions? They really are a headache to create.

I should be able to release tomorrow.

[surferx]

For the record I'm not using SPK versions. Placing consecutive numbered cat/dats is much easier if you completley read instructions first.

[taskforce3]

Hmm, it seems that my Fusion Beam Forges decided it was best for it to enter the farming market and sell delaxian wheat...

Also, I think that the Astraeus Hauler should lose the 37 ships fighter bay and add main guns plus a few more turrets. Perhaps, this may fill the missing argon heavy m7 gap without having to wait a for a new model.

[aka1nas]

0.89 is now ready... just got to spend hours creating the damn SPKs now...

Are you sure you still want SPK versions? They really are a headache to create.

I should be able to release tomorrow.

I gave up on the spk's a few weeks ago and went back to installing the mod manually.

[Bléral]

I'm using the spks personnally, but I can imagine these mutltiple versions are a pain to maintain... Spks packages could probably be dropped for the main mod, indeed (although still usefull for every scripts/text files, as those would be very difficult to manage manually).

[paulwheeler]

Hmm, it seems that my Fusion Beam Forges decided it was best for it to enter the farming market and sell delaxian wheat...

Also, I think that the Astraeus Hauler should lose the 37 ships fighter bay and add main guns plus a few omore turrets. Perhaps, this may fill the missing argon heavy m7 gap without having to wait a for a new model.

That sounds like you have another waretemplate somewhere which is blocking the cmod waretemplate. What other mods do you have installed?

There are two reasons for the astreaus being a light carrier. One, it uses the same model as the Cerberus which is just dull. Two, it has an internal docking bay whereas cadius' models usually dont. Since cadius is the most likely source of a new model, it makes sense to keep the heavy assault frigate space clear for it.

Also, the astreaus is Otas, not argon...

[taskforce3]

Hmm, it seems that my Fusion Beam Forges decided it was best for it to enter the farming market and sell delaxian wheat...

Also, I think that the Astraeus Hauler should lose the 37 ships fighter bay and add main guns plus a few omore turrets. Perhaps, this may fill the missing argon heavy m7 gap without having to wait a for a new model.

That sounds like you have another waretemplate somewhere which is blocking the cmod waretemplate. What other mods do you have installed?

There are two reasons for the astreaus being a light carrier. One, it uses the same model as the Cerberus which is just dull. Two, it has an internal docking bay whereas cadius' models usually dont. Since cadius is the most likely source of a new model, it makes sense to keep the heavy assault frigate space clear for it.

Also, the astreaus is Otas, not argon...

[ external image ]

Also MEFOS, Military Transport, and the Befehlsbibliothek "Libraries.

Heh, he said Argon/OTAS and they do share the same ship list both in game and in editor.

Edit: It seems that I cannot purchase anything bigger than a m6 at Teladi shipyards. I tried buying a Tern and a Shrike but Betty insist that there is no docking space available. It seems to be with only Teladi Shipyards.

Also it seems that most Teladi capital ship m7+ have various hull damage and this includes their orbital weapons platform also. I am positive that there wasn't huge spontaneous invasion of Teladi sectors all at once that could have cause this.

Edit Edit: Found the problem with the shipyard, it seems to be a problem with Cadius's shipyard scene file. Once i replaced the scene file with the original file, I can purchase my m7. Too bad, i really like the new model.

1 problem down! not really, just bypassed...

[Railgunner]

Paul, please do continue making the SPK versions please, it was a headache installing and updating the different mods all the time manually, but the SPKs made it a hell of a lot easier......

[surferx]

I think Paul deserves a 'hell of a lot' of praise for the amount of time he devotes to this mod.
Thank you

[aka1nas]

Yeah, the scope of the mods that paul is maintaining is extremely impressive.

Thanks for all of the hard work! It's made TC a tremendously better game.

[paulwheeler]

Hmm, it seems that my Fusion Beam Forges decided it was best for it to enter the farming market and sell delaxian wheat...

Also, I think that the Astraeus Hauler should lose the 37 ships fighter bay and add main guns plus a few omore turrets. Perhaps, this may fill the missing argon heavy m7 gap without having to wait a for a new model.

That sounds like you have another waretemplate somewhere which is blocking the cmod waretemplate. What other mods do you have installed?

There are two reasons for the astreaus being a light carrier. One, it uses the same model as the Cerberus which is just dull. Two, it has an internal docking bay whereas cadius' models usually dont. Since cadius is the most likely source of a new model, it makes sense to keep the heavy assault frigate space clear for it.

Also, the astreaus is Otas, not argon...

[ external image ]

Also MEFOS, Military Transport, and the Befehlsbibliothek "Libraries.

Heh, he said Argon/OTAS and they do share the same ship list both in game and in editor.

Edit: It seems that I cannot purchase anything bigger than a m6 at Teladi shipyards. I tried buying a Tern and a Shrike but Betty insist that there is no docking space available. It seems to be with only Teladi Shipyards.

Also it seems that most Teladi capital ship m7+ have various hull damage and this includes their orbital weapons platform also. I am positive that there wasn't huge spontaneous invasion of Teladi sectors all at once that could have cause this.

Edit Edit: Found the problem with the shipyard, it seems to be a problem with Cadius's shipyard scene file. Once i replaced the scene file with the original file, I can purchase my m7. Too bad, i really like the new model.

1 problem down! not really, just bypassed...

I can't see anything there that would cause issues...

Have you put the SRM director script in the "director" folder? This maybe why you're not getting the correct product at the beam forges. This script loads the new waretemplate into the game. If this is the problem the beam forges will need to be recreated before they will work correctly. Try a new game and see if the beam forges are OK - if they are, then I can talk you through how to make the beam script run again.

All ships should have hull damage. This is because you've only just got your hull pack operational. Just run the included ship to reload all hulls.

I'm not aware of any issue with Cadius' Teladi shipyard... is anyone else having issues? If its a problem I can easily switch the original back in.