[3.2/2.5 MOD] X3TC Naval Shuffle 1.3.3.3/1.1: Now reasonably AP compatable
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Found the culprit - engine trails mod I'd installed as a fake patch and forgot about:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0
It messes with a lot of the same files that this mod does so it's no surprise. I was able to remove it. Shame, though, because the trails are nice, but I doubt the Blastclaw was the only ship affected.
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... sc&start=0
It messes with a lot of the same files that this mod does so it's no surprise. I was able to remove it. Shame, though, because the trails are nice, but I doubt the Blastclaw was the only ship affected.
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I finally pieced together how to interpret the gun/turret data in my application, so I've now got a nice shiny little excel file with all the pertinent ship data (except what gun/missiles are compatible) that I've decided I might as well share. Hopefully it will be of use to you Sorenson either as a sort of data map or something, and if not it'll be at least a good ship statistical data layout for users of the mod. I removed most of the odd entries and duplicate entries that I pulled (pirate versions). The only inconsistencies should be the duplicate entries for freighters that are identical as far as name goes, but have slightly different performance details. Apart from that it should be accurate, if there is something off just let me know and I'll see where it went wrong.
The link to it is: http://www.cwmftw.com/x3tc/sorenson/Nav ... ata_v1.zip
That's the final flat data version that should be friendly to both MS Office and OpenOffice. Sorenson if you want my original version that has EVERYTHING including my full source map that was pulled out of the TShips just let me know and I can post it too.
The link to it is: http://www.cwmftw.com/x3tc/sorenson/Nav ... ata_v1.zip
That's the final flat data version that should be friendly to both MS Office and OpenOffice. Sorenson if you want my original version that has EVERYTHING including my full source map that was pulled out of the TShips just let me know and I can post it too.
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Huh, that's cool. I'll have to take a look at it later since OpenOffice seems to hate high-contrast black and renders the text invisible. I'll see if I can get that into a post-friendly form.
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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High contrast black? Zuh? I used stock standard fonts and colors in Office, it should be able to open without a problem.
I'd be rather surprised if you could put it into a post in all of its entirety, as there are literally 27 columns worth of data. If someone isn't running a widescreen monitor, or there isn't a way to make a scrollable box then it would probably text wrap and look really goofy.
I'd be rather surprised if you could put it into a post in all of its entirety, as there are literally 27 columns worth of data. If someone isn't running a widescreen monitor, or there isn't a way to make a scrollable box then it would probably text wrap and look really goofy.
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It's also the only M3 Hauler in the universe, too. Well, there is the Notus, but I'm frankly not really sure if it's actually a hauler since it's the only actual example of the class outright, like the Yaki hauler corvettes/frigates.
EDIT: Just in case anyone's interested, I'm currently doing reworks of the laser RelVals and the results're looking good with many goods getting increased factory and dock capacities. The only kinks thus far are Split factories, since Raster Oil is so frickin' expensive compared to other refined foodstuffs that it screws up the calculations the game does and makes split stuff produce goods in bunches of fives, half of which is wasted in the final cycle when the factory's completily full.
EDIT: Just in case anyone's interested, I'm currently doing reworks of the laser RelVals and the results're looking good with many goods getting increased factory and dock capacities. The only kinks thus far are Split factories, since Raster Oil is so frickin' expensive compared to other refined foodstuffs that it screws up the calculations the game does and makes split stuff produce goods in bunches of fives, half of which is wasted in the final cycle when the factory's completily full.
Last edited by Sorenson on Wed, 10. Feb 10, 00:24, edited 1 time in total.
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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Correct, except the part about it being fast.lamoyja wrote: Well, it is telaadi, so its probably just a very well designed fast/well armed cargo ship.

There are faster TS ships, but a Falcon Hauler is good for people that are in LOOOOOOVE with missiles, or want something to base out of their carriers/TLs to play fetch with stations that aren't big enough to provide capital class docking bays.
Also it's the only fighter capable of carrying XL sized cargo (unless Sorenson added a few more)
Falcon Hauler is to help make more profitsssssss
Is that going to completely bugger up the values that are used by most complex calculators, thus making them rather useless for this mod?Sorenson wrote: EDIT: Just in case anyone's interested, I'm currently doing reworks of the laser RelVals and the results're looking good with many goods getting increased factory and dock capacities. The only kinks thus far are Split factories, since Raster Oil is so frickin' expensive compared to other refined foodstuffs that it screws up the calculations the game does and makes split stuff produce goods in bunches of fives, half of which is wasted in the final cycle when the factory's completily full.
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Indeed they will. And since they will, I may as well take the opprotunity to try and fix a few niggling little things that've been bugging me, like how Meatsteak Cahoonas are unit-for-unit less valuable than Argnu Beef itself despite the steaks being a refined product and why it is that certain substances which fulfill the same roles in manufacturing (Meatsteaks/Soja Huska/Raster Oil, et al) have different Relvals and prices which cause all sorts of weirdness in calculating ware production. Cutting Raster Oil and Soja Husks to RelVals of 24 has already fixed the issue with Split and Paranid factories getting weird production calculation results, based on the tests I've done, though I'm going to have to cheat a super TL and build every single factory for every single race in order to make sure it's functioning. Yech.
EDIT: Aw, man. I didn't know the Complex Cleaner/Cruncher altered the Factories file in addition to all that other stuff in there. I guess I'll have to pop into that thread and see if I can learn what exact changes Gazz made so I can replicate a version compatable with the changes I've made in the factories file as well.
EDIT: Aw, man. I didn't know the Complex Cleaner/Cruncher altered the Factories file in addition to all that other stuff in there. I guess I'll have to pop into that thread and see if I can learn what exact changes Gazz made so I can replicate a version compatable with the changes I've made in the factories file as well.
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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Yeah I love your mod and all, but don't screw with a man's complex cleaner! That thing is a saving grace for making huge facilities and FAST. I'd just as soon the factories be left alone if it's going to mess up Complex Cleaner.
That plus messing with factories might be getting into the realm of scope creep from your initial mod intentions.
That plus messing with factories might be getting into the realm of scope creep from your initial mod intentions.

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Well I ain't gonna integrate it into the Shuffle if that's what you're thinking. I'm thinking more like you'll have the Naval Shuffle, and then you'll have Naval Shuffle FCC which is a different version of the mod that's designed to work with the FCC. Or Gazz could make a version of the FCC to work with the Naval Shuffle. I don't know, we'll flip a coin or something.
EDIT: And it's not like I'm messing FCC up either, the changes to TFactories is to fix the Terran factories that crash TC when you try to complex them normally.
EDIT: And it's not like I'm messing FCC up either, the changes to TFactories is to fix the Terran factories that crash TC when you try to complex them normally.
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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I would definitely go with either asking Gazz to add your terran fixes to CCleaner, that way with any luck he'll integrate it so we'll have the ability to crunch the terran stations and add PSP/starburst/MAML factories into our giant space cubes.Sorenson wrote:Well I ain't gonna integrate it into the Shuffle if that's what you're thinking. I'm thinking more like you'll have the Naval Shuffle, and then you'll have Naval Shuffle FCC which is a different version of the mod that's designed to work with the FCC. Or Gazz could make a version of the FCC to work with the Naval Shuffle. I don't know, we'll flip a coin or something.
EDIT: And it's not like I'm messing FCC up either, the changes to TFactories is to fix the Terran factories that crash TC when you try to complex them normally.
Either that or have a version of NS that's free of the station fiddling, since station building and the planning of these epic stations is a very core part of the game. Screwing around with the numbers and throwing off calculations would be EXTREMELY irritating (at least to me it would). Although if you can make it so that the stations keep the same ratios so that all of the standard complex building calculations work correctly and consistently then that has potential.
On a side note, I started a new game with Beta3 last night, and with the missile tweaks I'm noticing a lot more missile hits due to the increased top end. That plus quite a few missiles missing smaller targets on the first pass and having to circle their prey shark style. Oh, and the Thorn missiles launched by Khaak M2s etc are bloody annoying. I'm very tempted to work towards an M7M with facilities to support some hammer heavy torpedo spamming, as I'm betting a full salvo of hammers going 750m/s is going to absolutely wreck whatever it's aimed at, no matter their missile defense.
EDIT: Speaking of complexes, is it actually possible to build the terran factories for PSP/Starburst/etc now, and complex them so they're self sufficient? or does that require the TFactories tweaking?
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How's the effect, though? Do you find yourself getting insta-killed a lot less,, or does the increase in missile speed (and hopefully its hit-to-miss ratio) mean you tend to get whacked by one that still leaves you with a decent chunk'a' shields only to get hit by another that wipes you out?Shadow_Wolf33 wrote:On a side note, I started a new game with Beta3 last night, and with the missile tweaks I'm noticing a lot more missile hits due to the increased top end. That plus quite a few missiles missing smaller targets on the first pass and having to circle their prey shark style.
Yeah, I've got to knock their maneuverability down to like 3 YPR or whatever, Tomahawks and Phantoms had similar levels of maneuverability of like 6.something and it was surprisingly easy for them to spin around and try to track fighters.Oh, and the Thorn missiles launched by Khaak M2s etc are bloody annoying.
Unfortunetily I haven't gotten one of the scripts that lets the AI actually defend itself against missiles effectively yet, largely because it seems like they come with some form of weird baggage or another, so I haven't seen firsthand reactions to such. I figure for capship torps and the like I'll have to put their blast radius' back up to their original values since I believe that could effect multiple missiles, and since barrage'd missiles usually form a little space conga line of sorts when fired hitting one should take out the whole bunch.I'm very tempted to work towards an M7M with facilities to support some hammer heavy torpedo spamming, as I'm betting a full salvo of hammers going 750m/s is going to absolutely wreck whatever it's aimed at, no matter their missile defense.
Build them yes, complex them no, Beta 3 didn't include the TFactories file since I was still working on that when Sunday rolled around.EDIT: Speaking of complexes, is it actually possible to build the terran factories for PSP/Starburst/etc now, and complex them so they're self sufficient? or does that require the TFactories tweaking?
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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From normal fighter to fighter combat, the missile defense worked well enough that while yes SOME would get through, it wasn't an issue of MARS being cruise control for missile invulnerability anymore. So when a missile DID hit me in my M3 it nailed enough of a chunk off to make me go OHSNAP, and start being a bit more evasive. Didn't run anything in fighter to fighter combat last night that could be described as an insta-gib. Except for the bloody thorn swarm missile, that was just painful. One hit and you get shaken to hell, and then the rest of its buddies cornhole you good while you're getting your bearings back. Then again, I was pissing off a destroyer in an M3, that seems pretty accurate.Sorenson wrote: How's the effect, though? Do you find yourself getting insta-killed a lot less,, or does the increase in missile speed (and hopefully its hit-to-miss ratio) mean you tend to get whacked by one that still leaves you with a decent chunk'a' shields only to get hit by another that wipes you out?

I didn't get much combat time (hour or so) in my new game last night as I had to go and find myself a new fighter, make some money, arm it..blah blah blah...I should get to go around and pick more fights tonight after I build a few plexes.
Please do, the kha'ak can already gib you with laser fire, they don't need missiles that can insta-gib fighters at a pretty epic range as well. Anti-cap stuff shouldn't have a hope in hell of hitting fighters that are going max speed and doing maneuvers, even after the missile is up to max speed.Yeah, I've got to knock their maneuverability down to like 3 YPR or whatever, Tomahawks and Phantoms had similar levels of maneuverability of like 6.something and it was surprisingly easy for them to spin around and try to track fighters.
I like MARS, but the MEFOS script is supposedly very good as well, I just find MARS more convenient and faster to get up and running without having to track down a bunch of goobers to sit in my cargo bay and man my guns. It's definitely an improvement over vanilla.Unfortunetily I haven't gotten one of the scripts that lets the AI actually defend itself against missiles effectively yet, largely because it seems like they come with some form of weird baggage or another, so I haven't seen firsthand reactions to such. I figure for capship torps and the like I'll have to put their blast radius' back up to their original values since I believe that could effect multiple missiles, and since barrage'd missiles usually form a little space conga line of sorts when fired hitting one should take out the whole bunch.
I would suggest that killing a single torpedo in the 'conga line' should NOT be able to wipe out the entire torpedo line, as that just makes it too easy to nullify a missile barrage. That plus what happens when the torpedo makes contact and detonates on the ship? will it detonate the other torpedos prematurely, therefore triggering the rest of the conga line? Firing 8 torpedos on an M7M against a Destroyer with no guns (therefore no missile defense) should result in 8 hits, not 3-4 hits and the rest going 'poof' due to blast radius killing off hits buddies.
I think for the time being I might see if I can use Cycrow's cheat package to more or less cheese myself a terran weapons complex. Plunk down 5x HEPT factories, Add EMPC as a final product...remove HEPT as a final product....pray that it will build it...and if so, complex them together with the needed resources. Rinse and repeat for PSP/Starburst etc. forges. I will probably have to do that as a vanilla complex though, as crunching that with CCleaner might make a big mess somewhere along the line. I'll probably do a test factory deployment of that tonight, see if it works. If it does, you might be able to just take the model from an Argon factory or something, replace the product/resources on it, and voila you have a terran production facility. It wont be a 'true' terran facility but hey if it works it works. Good enough for the time being.Build them yes, complex them no, Beta 3 didn't include the TFactories file since I was still working on that when Sunday rolled around.
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You know what? I'm actually running out of stuff to do with this mod. I've changed the RelVals, tweaked the missiles, added extra wares to some of the complexes, tweaked the Kha'ak - heck, all I have to do is create a few beam forges in the universe file and I might be able to get beta 4 out on Friday.
EDIT: Awwwww, yeah. [ external image ] You know how I may or may not have mentioned how trying to add the disabled beam weapons to their factories via WareTemplate didn't work? That's still true, but only applies if you're a nerd who insists on working directly with the source. Actually going at the WaresTemplate file through the galaxy editor in Doubleshadow's program lets me add the beam factories to the list, and once stocked they function just like any other. I don't even need a script to get them to work now, so all I have to do is set a few beam forges up in good spots and let the beamspam begin!
EDIT: Awwwww, yeah. [ external image ] You know how I may or may not have mentioned how trying to add the disabled beam weapons to their factories via WareTemplate didn't work? That's still true, but only applies if you're a nerd who insists on working directly with the source. Actually going at the WaresTemplate file through the galaxy editor in Doubleshadow's program lets me add the beam factories to the list, and once stocked they function just like any other. I don't even need a script to get them to work now, so all I have to do is set a few beam forges up in good spots and let the beamspam begin!
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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There is still MUCH tweaking left to be done on the missiles I think. I noticed a lot more NPCs were using swarm type missiles, and seem to be firing them more now. Here's an example, I came across a Kha'ak Fighter with about 8ish Scout buddies. I get close and they ALL launched some variety of swarm missile. Yeah...and with the new max missile speed of 750m/s that was very ouch.Sorenson wrote:You know what? I'm actually running out of stuff to do with this mod. I've changed the RelVals, tweaked the missiles, added extra wares to some of the complexes, tweaked the Kha'ak - heck, all I have to do is create a few beam forges in the universe file and I might be able to get beta 4 out on Friday.
It's entirely possible I'm just not used to getting hit by missiles anymore, but it seems like my fighter kept getting shaken up by a missile hit and throwing me off my target a lot more frequently than before.
Are those AI only fabs? or player built ones as well?EDIT: Awwwww, yeah. [ external image ] You know how I may or may not have mentioned how trying to add the disabled beam weapons to their factories via WareTemplate didn't work? That's still true, but only applies if you're a nerd who insists on working directly with the source. Actually going at the WaresTemplate file through the galaxy editor in Doubleshadow's program lets me add the beam factories to the list, and once stocked they function just like any other. I don't even need a script to get them to work now, so all I have to do is set a few beam forges up in good spots and let the beamspam begin!
Also, I noticed that your claim of 'all ships/stations available at all shipyards' is definitely coming up short. I've noticed that there are shipyards that are definitely lacking everything...for sure in the stations department.
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Well I was thinking more in terms of having to mess around adding new stuff and whatnot, tweaking's a lifelong process for mods. And the missile thing is interesting, though also perfectly in character for Kha'ak.Shadow_Wolf33 wrote:There is still MUCH tweaking left to be done on the missiles I think. I noticed a lot more NPCs were using swarm type missiles, and seem to be firing them more now. Here's an example, I came across a Kha'ak Fighter with about 8ish Scout buddies. I get close and they ALL launched some variety of swarm missile. Yeah...and with the new max missile speed of 750m/s that was very ouch.
Player as well.Are those AI only fabs? or player built ones as well?
You mean that entry under Galaxy Modifications? That's home sector shipyards, not all shipyards. And what stations are missing? Asides from hubs and headquarters which I'd held back on seeing as they're plot rewards but'm thinking of adding anyway for folks who want to do custom games or don't want to do some of the more ridiculous plots and "X Complex" stations which aren't buyable anyway, each home sector shipyard's stocked with every viable dock and factory that race can support.Also, I noticed that your claim of 'all ships/stations available at all shipyards' is definitely coming up short. I've noticed that there are shipyards that are definitely lacking everything...for sure in the stations department.
X3TC Naval Shuffle: My ships are fast; my shields are strong; and my guns are very, very large.
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I know for SURE that one factory that is missing from widespread availability is the Argon Concussion Impulse Generator Forge, which as I've seen so far is only available at Omicron Lyrae (which seems to have had its available stations gutted). I'm sure the list will probably grow, but I'm mostly familiar with Argon facilities, and where to find them.
and yes, I'm not usually big on crying nerf, but seriously...nerf kha'ak swarm missiles....they're insane.
and yes, I'm not usually big on crying nerf, but seriously...nerf kha'ak swarm missiles....they're insane.