FLAKS on capital ships not damaging after close combat

[Alan Phipps]

I've noticed a strange thing on several occasions in vanilla X3R when attacking an enemy capital ship with your own capital ship armed with PPC turrets (attack my target) and with separate FLAK turrets (attack all enemies) for fighter defence.

While you stay at PPC combat ranges or beyond, the FLAKs are extremely effective against enemy M6 or fighters using their fragmentation (area) damage effect. If, however, you get to close range such that the FLAK turrets also start to engage the target enemy capital ship, they go into rapid fire mode on target but do no damage to it at all. Once this event has happened, and even after you have otherwise destroyed the enemy capital ship, the FLAKs then no longer do any fragmentation damage to any enemy fighter that they fire on. Only an absolutely direct hit by a FLAK shell does any damage to a fighter, and even then it is only very slight.

This lack of FLAK area effect persists even if you save and reload, change turret commands, dismount and remount the FLAKs, or even load other FLAKs from cargo into what were previously PPC turrets. Even closing and restarting X3 does not clear it from a 'tainted' reload. It affects both A and B FLAKs and I always avoid mixing weapon-types within turrets. The only way to clear or reset this effect seems to be to change sector with your capital ship. This is annoying if you are trying to clear a Khaak sector and lose your main fighter defence!

I am merely guessing, but I think there is a logical switch or flag somewhere in the FLAK effect programming that is meant to stop you easily destroying enemy capital ships using massed FLAK fire. If true, this switch or flag is not being reset when the FLAK turret is no longer targetting a capital ship; only a change of sector does this. This flag state is also being saved in a save-game.

I would be interested to hear other comments from those who have experienced similar events or may even have a solution.

[KoshZdryh]

It is a faulty fps sync.

In another thread

In Frame 1 the flak bullet is 300m before the ship, in Frame 2 it's 400m past the ship.
It never impacted.

Obviously this is also true for X3R.
Try increasing the fps.

[Alan Phipps]

Hi Kosh, I've seen that thread. No this isn't that at all and I'm not at all fussed that the occasional FLAK burst misses. I'm on about all the ones that almost hit doing no damage. In normal combat before the 'event', FLAKs are great versus fighters. After, they are useless. I don't see how a FLAK turret hitting a M2 changes my fps sync situation for ever more. Thanks for the input in any case.

[KoshZdryh]

1)Maybe you should post the technical data of the computer.
2)It might still be a fps problem...try removing ffdshow sound filters[worked for me]--ANY improvement will help.
3)I had a HUGE problem with flaks [0% hit] when a battleship opened fire on me[ppc] or having 30 kak fighters on my tail.
4)You can combine flaks with other weapons but that I'm not willing to share...
5)If there is such a "no area damage flag reset" that would be a MAJOR bug.

[Alan Phipps]

Seriously, I really appreciate the offered advice. The reason I say that it cannot just be an FPS-related issue is that the unwanted condition persists post-combat, and even survives a complete switch down and reload of a tainted save. At such times my FPS is up to peak as when the FLAKs were working fine. I am looking instead for a conditional that is saved in a save-game; this surely rules out my FPS rate?

I can identify with the XTC thread you quoted where increasing FPS or reducing projectile speed could make the FLAK combat more effective, but I am more concerned with the residual effects after combat has ceased and FPS can no longer be the problem. Even in that thread, people complain of FLAKs working fine most of the time during combat and then apparently not doing so for a while for some reason. Perhaps if they are suffering this effect only after a particular type of close combat, then they and I may have something in common? Cheers.

[KoshZdryh]

I capped a K with flaks [only] and had no residual problems.
Maybe it's because of the salvage insurances [I can't tell because I don't use them].
PS:Alright,I tried a sector 472 flak only:
1)The flaks become useless when enough PPC shots are around -- fps still apparently high.
2)The effect disappears when I put enough distance.
3)You did not specify if there were other M2/M1 around when the area damage didn't work.

[Alan Phipps]

Hello again. Well I'm in one, and there may be other capitals around the sector but not within combat range. Since there are no other hostiles to them other than me, there shouldn't be any more PPC shots flying about the sector, yet the condition persists. What distance did you have to go to lose the effect (and what from once the target is dead)? I had to change sector to lose it - while being harried by FLAK-immune fighters.

This sounds a lot like a persitant capital-on-capital close-combat FLAK use effect. I don't mind it during the M1/M2 kill because the PPC shots are doing the damage, it is the persisting aftermath that is the pain. It may not be due to a combat flag as I first surmised and could well be initiated by a low fps in close PPC/FLAK combat as you suggest, but it is certainly a situation that does not self-correct as soon as things return to 'normal' (ie no PPC shooting and full fps) when it might be expected to do so. I wonder what actually makes it clear? Perhaps you have to get to a completely no-combat area, ie even no fighters (difficult in Khaak sectors!).

I'd love to hear a combat developer's take on this. Cheers.

[KoshZdryh]

I have a small weird question : do you have the AQC on ?
I don't think the devs have time for such "small" issues ...

[Alan Phipps]

Not weird at all - I understand the reason for the question. No, I don't have AQC on.

[KoshZdryh]

I'm running out of ideas.
When the flaks are fired at a low fps their sound is ... different -- I'd know they missed.
But I also had the high fps flak miss [only when aqc is on] ...
In kha'ak sectors the flaks miss only when the number of fighters around is high enough[very rare ]--I usually take down a big ship manually[with the back turret] then,after getting far enough,I take care of any little spaceflies around [I don't recall ever having any problems -- with flaks anyway--even when ramming a KM1/KM2].

Have you ever had any problems with PBEs ?
PS:I found this funny old thread.

[Alan Phipps]

Sounds from the thread that this bugged FLAK condition (let's call it that now) has been around as long as FLAKs have been on capital ships. I don't think the simultaneous burst and save problem posed in its final post is the only issue as I have had the problem remain when saving from calm sailing post-combat. Once I have it, it just won't go away till I jump. Perhaps you should let the XTC FLAK thread see a link to the relevant X3R threads as the problem seems to have carried on into TC (which I don't have a man-enough PC for yet).

I used to have low fps-related stuttering fire and pass-throughs with PBEs when in massed combat but mostly solved that by slowing down the projectiles. The greater hit rate compensates for the greater aim-off you need. It is not precisely the same problem as the FLAKs as the PBEs always recovered their potency as soon as the fps improved.

I have enjoyed our exchanges on this but I think we should leave what turned out to be actually quite an old issue remain as an unresolved inconvenience. Thanks.