A Call to other Creative Contributors

Official fiction, fan fiction and artwork. Let your talent express itself!

Moderators: TheElf, Moderators for English X Forum

Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

A Call to other Creative Contributors

Post by Paranoid66 »

Original post

Hello Everyone.

As a contributor here (for good or ill) I was thinking about that old devil here on creative - lack of feedback, and discussion. I have noticed other posters have felt this woe as well. I find myself reading feedback even on others stories sometimes more than their actual tales.

I admit I have felt guilty of not supporting others work with my own comments (pot abusing the kettle). I have not really had the time or motivation - shock - to read others - long - stories right now. Too busy trying to sort my own stuff out.

However, I would gladly look at shorter stuff such as say submitted clippings or discuss: thoughts, ideas, or concepts with others. While it can be fun to work away on your own I think it can be really good to bounce ideas around as well.

I wondered would others believe it would be beneficial to form some kind of Creative self help group / thread - to look at / debate our work if not necessarily in its entirety then at least parts, and ideas.

Anyway just throwing this out there for discussion.




****EDIT**** (to keep this thread on track)

IN SHORT THE PROPOSAL IS:

Birth of a new - Creative Discussion Thread - for Creative Contributors on this forum


A place for:

-general creative discussion on set relevant topics
-mutual support
-community building
-skill sharing
-positive critique
-public domain common material dissemination*


note* As in useful X background info, and concepts (we don't wish to, or can't desire to claim any creative ownership of). For example: Maybe you have invented a weapons technology in your story or a location you don't mind others also using as part of their story background.

WE NEED YOU!

To make this idea work we are looking for other serious contributors so we can have a core group to help keep the Thread as positive, and on topic as possible. Please let us know if you are interested in this idea by posting here.

Ideas on implementation also welcome as nothing is fixed in stone yet.

Paranoid66
Last edited by Paranoid66 on Mon, 12. May 08, 23:16, edited 3 times in total.
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
Nightwatch
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon, 8. Mar 04, 22:32
x3tc

Post by Nightwatch »

Hi. My name is Nightwatch, and I'm a creative.

*Chorus of "Hi nightwatch"*

Yeah well you know it started when I saw a baseball, and I was like waw that looks really nice, like something flying through the starts

*lots of nodding*

And then it hit me in the face, and as I was recovering in hispital I started constructing a movie on a computer. But after I was thrown out of the hospital for erasing the database an their main computer... well it had the most hard drive space.....

*dead silence*

I went and tried to show it to my family bit they disowned me after watching the first 15 minutes of my movie "flesh balls from outer space".. and since then I am crying for acceptance and attention... hey anyone want to see my movie?

*sound of a stampede, sounds of someone getting hit repeatedly and then a sound like someone getting thrown through a window.*
<--- Stings like a butterfly. Flies like a brick.

See My X videos here http://uk.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24E544BDA13A0125
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

^^Well it is creative guess I asked for that by using the words - self help group - somehow on, and off topic at the same time! That is dharma too sigh!
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
Nightwatch
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon, 8. Mar 04, 22:32
x3tc

Post by Nightwatch »

Sorry!
<--- Stings like a butterfly. Flies like a brick.

See My X videos here http://uk.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24E544BDA13A0125
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

Nightwatch wrote:Sorry!
No worry it was amusing, and it was creative. :D
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
KRM398
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
xr

ok, good odeas but...

Post by KRM398 »

Hi I'm not good enough to be a CREATIVE, but.....I agree to a point, we usually dont take time to read other peoples sutff, but my excuse is: TADA...if I read other peoples ideas it messes up what I'M thinking, and sooner or later, someone is going to scream, good story, but you stole my ending/beginning/deathsceen. Whatever, well I do a little writing, as my story.."The way it could be" shows, but I'm afraid my idea has to stand, at least for me. If you have a good train going, nothing throws it off track like reading something good someone else is doing, just my humble opiniun of course. :roll:
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

^^ good point I admit fear of accidentally incorporating stuff from others work has been a factor in myself not reading others stories on occasion. Simply because I am a firm believer that nothing is made out of nothing, and it is often best to seek inspiration further away - from real life sources although I imagine we are all guilty of occasional infringements!

That is another reason why I suggested that discussion or input could be on submitted material, material people are comfortable to put out, questions they might wish to ask? Obviously if you have something you wish to keep to yourself that is all well, and good.

I confess I didn't spend ages composing my thoughts on this. I was interested to debate advantages, and disadvantages with others plus potential methodology for Creative Forum Self Help / Creative discussion here - given an apparent potential desire for greater feedback?

I also think it depends on how confident you feel too. I don't really care if somebody else is inspired by any idea I put out - it is public domain after all! In truth little is actually new anyway we all build on our experience.

I do see one negative side - that being the danger of the harmonising of ideas. However Creative Individuals often work in groups, and use critique etc to improve, and share their experiences without becoming bland clones of each other.

Some simple information sharing might be useful as well for example: I was recently looking for a suitable commencement date for my story (I had avoided hard dates prior to this) and so needed to know when X3's plot starts, (not currently having access to the game) - 01 Nov 764. That sort of material is potentially useful to everyone in a similar position.

Maybe creative could have a sticky containing some pertinent background facts like that. In the same way as their are links to other sites with good info?

EDIT-
Hi I'm not good enough to be a CREATIVE
I wouldn't put yourself down I used the label here simply because it is the creative forum not to in any way to claim some kind of elevation lol. The way I see it all human beings are creative. 'CREATIVE' like 'ARTIST' are labels that are used, and abused. Sometimes by individuals sometimes even by industry to say hands off my turf - I disagree with that stance!
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
parameter
Posts: 728
Joined: Thu, 2. Feb 06, 09:21
x3tc

Creative Works Industry

Post by parameter »

Okay guys! I think you each have your own style. You are certainly creative and I have found myself hooked on more than one occasion by your stories.
I do not think you would assimilate other writers ideas knowingly in order to 'claim ownership' as it were. Your subject is Science Fiction, some is Science Fantasy! but unless you use the same characters/descriptions as other writers, without their permission!, you are safe.

Just make sure you keep your continuity and original thought!
You are very good! :)
veneratio supernus omni
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

Just make sure you keep your continuity
I think internal continuity is one of the keystones of any good story, especially in science fiction, science fantasy, or fantasy. It can be entirely realistic or utterly fantastical (as long as the vision remains true to itself the reader can still suspend their disbelief).

I also think science fiction, and science fantasy are getting increasingly blurred as paraphrasing the quote ‘sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic’.

A good example of this might be the Culture Novels by Banks.

So unless your setting deals with only near future, and or low tech aliens the line gets blurred.
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

Off topic replies aside it looks like the idea of the original post was a time waster. Back to the isolation ward for the Paranoid One lol!
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
SOTS
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat, 25. Mar 06, 12:52
x3

Post by SOTS »

Well, you certainly got a discussion in this thread. But I'm not sure if it would warrant a whole new thread as a sounding board for writers to throw ideas around.

Good idea though. If there were such a thread created I know I would (try to) post in it regularly to help with others' writing and perhaps to bounce a few ideas of my own around!
Last edited by SOTS on Sat, 10. May 08, 23:49, edited 1 time in total.
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

SOTS wrote:Good idea though. If there was such a thread created I know I would (try to) post in it regularly to help with others' writing and perhaps to bounce a few ideas of my own around!
Thanks SOTS for the on topic reply - maybe some hope after all - I was beginning to fear I was off base altogether.

Glad to hear at least one other contributor would be interested in the concept.

Any ideas you might have or anyone else for the best way of going about this would be appreciated?

My first thought would be that it would be good to have at least a small group of interested people directly signed up before it would be worth starting a specific thread. Partially to try and keep it on topic, and also as constructive as possible although - anyone would of course be free to add to the thread - does that make sense?
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
SOTS
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat, 25. Mar 06, 12:52
x3

Post by SOTS »

I think it might be a good idea to set out some guidelines in the first post - no actual stories, constructive discussion as often as possible, NO THEFT OF IDEAS and so on. That last one would be especially important, I feel. Although, there would be a measure of trust required, or no one would sound off about their ideas, would they?

As to having a decent 'starting base group,' that's another good plan. Or the whole thing could end up faceplanting at a rather early juncture. I think you might need at least a couple of people 'onside' to make sure discussion stayed on topic, but I'm not sure how you'd enforce it. Maybe seeing if any of the Moderators are interested?

And yes, it did make sense, worry not ;) 'Anyone can add, but there are a few to keep it sensible' was my interpretation.
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

Guideline Rules sounds good, enforcement as you say could be difficult though.

On the IDEAS front - some kind strong advisory against sharing ANYTHING anybody feels especially precious about - might be in order! All gentlemans agreements aside or it could actually become artifically constraining - with people staking out claims if you get my drift.

I wouldn't want to get involved in Intellectual property squabbles - that would be a killer for the whole idea of mutual aid. So we would need to head that one off at the pass. If anyone is worried I would suggest keeping their discussion more general dealing with broad rather than specific concept ideas. Broad stuff that wouldn't have any ownership?

I agree it would be good if we could get some moderator input on the thread to help keep it - on topic - something you don't normally require in creative due to its nature.
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
SOTS
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat, 25. Mar 06, 12:52
x3

Post by SOTS »

Yeah, IP conflicts are a bitch. 'I thought of it first!' 'No, I did!' etc. Good point about the gentlemen's agreements as well. Maybe you could put it in the guidelines, then - no specifics unless you're comfortable putting them in the public domain so soon in the proceedings.

I guess Mod input isn't absolutely essential - often a simple reminder is sufficient to bring a thread back on topic - but if there are continuous spammers/off-topickers then a Mod would be very helpful to have around.

Another idea, just an off-the-wall kinda thing (oh, hey! I'm getting an early start :P), perhaps there could be ideas posted for discussion?

For instance, you or one of the 'admins' might write a post with something along the lines of 'Writing in an Alternate Universe: Discuss.' as a kind of thread guidance thing? Just a suggestion.
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

SOTS wrote:Another idea, just an off-the-wall kinda thing (oh, hey! I'm getting an early start :P), perhaps there could be ideas posted for discussion?

For instance, you or one of the 'admins' might write a post with something along the lines of 'Writing in an Alternate Universe: Discuss.' as a kind of thread guidance thing? Just a suggestion.
I agree that sounds good that way we could keep to the point as much as possible. Then if when we feel that one is exhausted move on to another.

Speaking of early starts have to log off in a moment myself lol! :o

Anyway right now I think what we need is some more individuals to speak up, and be counted willing to participate!
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
SOTS
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat, 25. Mar 06, 12:52
x3

Post by SOTS »

Sounds good! I'll wait on updates here, then ^_^
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

In short the proposal here is:

Birth of a new - Creative Discussion Thread - for Creative Contributors on this forum

A place for:
-general creative discussion on set relevant topics
-mutual support
-community building
-skill sharing
-positive critique
-public domain common material dissemination*

note* As in useful X background info, and concepts (we don't wish to, or can't desire to claim any creative ownership of). For example: Maybe you have invented a weapons technology in your story or a location you don't mind others also using as part of their story background.

WE NEED YOU!

To make this idea work we are looking for other serious contributors so we can have a core group to help keep the Thread as positive, and on topic as possible. Please let us know if you are interested in this idea by posting here.

Ideas on implementation also welcome as nothing is fixed in stone yet.
Last edited by Paranoid66 on Mon, 12. May 08, 23:19, edited 1 time in total.
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.
The Zig
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon, 1. Mar 04, 22:59
x3tc

Post by The Zig »

Hey.
This is a nice idea, and I'm somewhat interested, but I do have a couple of reservations about the self-help group aspect.

1) I'm not sure about the "submitting and discussing cuttings" idea. Personally, since Terraformer Dreams, I'm on sabbatical and have nothing new to contribute/submit to such. Also I'm slightly doubtful as to who would use such a service. If someone has an interesting concept, would they want to lose their thunder by discussing it with their potential audience first? Personally, I wouldn't.

2) I've also become a bit tentative about giving constructive criticism here. It seems to be the kiss of death on a lot of work. Whenever I've written a post evaluating a work - saying where I think it's strong, and where I think it could be improved - I get one post thanking me, then the thread drifts south. I'm starting to think people really just want to hear "Good Job, Keep it up."

As a workshop, helping people with problems, etc. I'm doubtful. I think it will be under-used and will feel artificial. I also think too many "keep on topic" rules will scare people off or make it seem... un-fun. What I would like to see here is a "Creative Milleu." A semi-topic thread where we can chat about anything interesting about writing - influences, problems, writers we like and why, the difference between 'influence', 'tribute' and 'plagiarism' etc. Creative could really use a few community building threads. Over on Off-Topic and X-Universe, posters get to interact. Some seem quite fond of each other! Here, it's just not done to have off-topic chat on someone's story thread. So we don't talk. Every man's an island. It would be good to change this a little.

It could also be interesting to discuss general story/writing-related things (for example, 'narration style' interests me. Terraformer Dreams jumps between characters a lot, and had several plot arcs, so without really thinking, I went with 3rd person omniscient; but consequently, I don't feel it conveys the feel of being in the X-Universe as well as the in-universe, 1st person narration of my reporter in First House. But then in-universe narration constrains you to your character's point of view, and limits you to only writing what it is plausible for the character to know and think. But then again, this forces you to develop your character more carefully.)

Anyway, with those reservations, you can count me in. I'm always interested in discussion. Perhaps I could teach people how to hot-link their chapters together so that I can actually find the next/previous chapter when I'm reading! :evil:
Paranoid66
Posts: 4643
Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 10:59
x3tc

Post by Paranoid66 »

^^ All good points like I said earlier nothing is set in stone. I was just throwing my poorly organised thoughts out there - off the top of my head.
"Creative Milleu." A semi-topic thread where we can chat about anything interesting about writing - influences, problems, writers we like and why, the difference between 'influence', 'tribute' and 'plagiarism' etc. Creative could really use a few community building threads.
I like the above statement a lot Zig. For me the best way to go about a discussion thread would be whatever those that wish to contribute are comfortable with? Community Building is a much better term than my self help label, while embodying the spirit of what I would also like the thread to do.

I too have noticed how for example: Off Topic has more of a community feel.

Maybe one of the reasons why discussion is stinted here on our stories is fear of accidental discouragement or offending because we don't know each others thresholds well enough. If we did have some general ‘Creative Milieu’ threads to borrow your term that might allow us to open up more also to not take any criticism too personal.

I don't think anyone would want strict moderation or would be disapproving of posters as long as the discussion remained within the wide remit of creative. Not much point if it spiralled utterly off topic though - otherwise it might as well be in Off Topic lol!

On the submitting idea. I was thinking about a portion of existing work like a snippet from an existing story. To gain some feedback if it was wanted on a specific aspect without everyone having to read a long story to pass comment (just an idea though).

I am beginning to think the sharing of specific concepts was ill concieved - the forum is just too public domain - not the same as getting help to flesh out, and or critique an idea's potential shortfalls among a small trusted group.
It could also be interesting to discuss general story/writing-related things (for example, 'narration style' interests me.
I agree my Reapers Passage is all over the show.

I would be interested in those hotlink guides myself too lol!
Beyond 'X' Far future (Fanfic): BkI BkII BkIII

Never more than 98.8 percent sure about anything.
98.8 percent sure that anyone who is 100 percent certain needs re-educating for the sake of humanity.

Return to “Creative Universe”