I'd personally LOVE to see more expansive sectors that give rise to the need for a cruise-engine sort of drive. (of course, not all ships would have the same top cruising speed, and larger ships would take longer to charge up to cruising speed.) Not that I'm dissing SETA, but I just love the idea of cruising engines (not being able to get away from combat immediately just by turning tail and fleeing, and not being able to just amble over to the station next door without some major throttling up). Besides, even if we are rats in a cage, it's still SPACE, and space is big
As for more 3D sectors, THAT would be quite gorgeous in my opinion. The layout of Kingdom End in X3 never ceases to amaze me, simply because the gates appear to spit you out pointing DOWN at the planet rather than SIDEWAYS at the planet (of course it's arbitrary but the appearance is still there). I think what needs to happen with the sector map is that they should be laid out more like the gravidar, in an orthographic projection (x, y, and z axis all simultaneously displayed, with a line drawn from the xz plane to denote the distance on the y axis.)
Finally, ninja space vixens, and a built in Ban Danna phone on all ships.
forgot to say- modular stuff I'm ALL OVER (means that customizable ships might be possible )
and as well, a total gate-reswitcheroo would be fun. I'd actually be intereted to see ALL the Xenon sectors grouped into one area about in the center of the map, as well as having several unsettled sectors in between major race-owned space (many more pirate sectors, or at least pirate-heavy sectors, lots and lots of unknown sectors, and a slew of simply uninhabited/uninhabitable sectors.)
Also, how about some comets? Or black holes? Ice rocks? Solar activity? Changing asteroid fields? (roids spawn way off the map, move across the sector at varying speeds [nothing ridiculous], go way off the map and disappear).
Finally, I want some real honest to goodness invasions of one race by another race (Split and Paranid vs. Argon and Boron, Teladi hired as mercs by one or another side)
i would steer clear of planets, it doesn't make much sense to me, i mean i can understand a ship being built in space and being launched from space, it wouldn't require much in terms of fuel or energy, but getting out of a planet's atmosphere is a whole new thing, and some planets would of course be huge and have more gravity and make it even tougher to get out, and then you have ships made of materials that could melt or even just crack apart completely with atmosphere entry and the planet's tempreture (and this also applies to cold planets as well of course)
best thing i can see on the list would be moduler ships and factories, but i also have my own little bit to add to it:
more human!
to explain, i mean that you don't feel like a ship, or computer program that goes around the universe doing whatever, i'd like to be able to walk around the ship, walk around my factory, walk around the trade centers, or go and see what ships are on sale in the shipyards and such
admittedly it would be immensly hard and not-worth-it since it would require a different engine (like in B&W, where you could enter your palace, same game but different engine used) and most people would probebly prefer to have the quick and fast menu list of products (i would too, makes trading a heck of a lot easier) but i still think it would be a cool option to have =/
maybe walking around your ship to get to the computer from where you can manage your trading empire, or setting the ship on auto-pilot and running down to the back turret, or whatever else springs to mind, heck maybe you could even install 'arcade games' onto your ship, play a bit of 'defender' or 'tetris' while you wait instead of SETA-ing your empty gaps
but enough of my rambling, i get carried away too easily and all that would be a little unnecesary for all the work it would require =(
[eek, just read the post above, I am *not* being critical here, just putting in my opinion..]
landable planets in an X game seem daft to me, regardless of the changes to the engine required.
It's a space sim, why land on planets?
It appeared in Elite Frontiers first encounter (or so I saw in the hour or two I played it before the bugs started getting noticeable). Very pretty and all, but pretty much pointless, plus the extra work required probably contributed to the hidious and unfixable bugs that wrecked the game (mainly design issues I beleive).
*however*, more significant trade stations (which I always took to represent the planet anyhow, as they did in Elite 1), would be fun.
Say with several docking ports, not just one.
To start with you're just a peon, and have to use the trademans entrance, but later you get to use a posh landing bay, sort of thing.
It's probably never going to happen, but a more interesting trading station would be cool.
ps, sorry for bringing up Elite again [ducks]
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
Modular Factories and Ships has won the day... This is something Egosoft have talked about since the first noises of XOL, players agree that it's about time we saw it in game..
Sneaking in behind is Factions and Corporations, another aspect of the game that Egosoft have talked about... It's plain to see that players are very interested in having far more 'life' in the universe.... to see things evolve...
Butting right up behind is Planetoid Inclusion, the majority of life is planet based, having some small piece of planetary interaction is preferable...
Somewhere out back my favourite Complex Economy hangs about... complexity is our friend, it can make just as much sense as the current one and will work on the strengths of the above...
I must admit I'm suprised at how badly planets have done, considering how much it gets mentioned. I can't say I'm unhappy about that though, seeing as modular was my choice too
esd wrote:I must admit I'm suprised at how badly planets have done, considering how much it gets mentioned. I can't say I'm unhappy about that though, seeing as modular was my choice too
I'm glad really... there's a lot of stuff I'd rather have than planets... as until there's colonisation, building and ownership I'm simply not interested...
Simplicity is often preferable.
Not when the Ai must cheat to keep the economy going... where essential products are simply and magically made, and where secondary products are only for the Ai, and the fact that the top of the economy isn't even connected to anything and requires sinkholes to get rid of wares... Ships aren't even factored into the economy...
It's a mess at the moment... a little bit of added complexity and the system can be made to stand on it's own and as such give a more rewarding experience...
silentWitness wrote:Not when the Ai must cheat to keep the economy going... where essential products are simply and magically made, and where secondary products are only for the Ai, and the fact that the top of the economy isn't even connected to anything and requires sinkholes to get rid of wares... Ships aren't even factored into the economy...
It's a mess at the moment... a little bit of added complexity and the system can be made to stand on it's own and as such give a more rewarding experience...
I'm not sure that complexity's the right word then - you seem to be asking more for the economy to follow through to a "logical conclusion". The same basic economy principles can be maintained, but extra resource requirements and more factories would certainly make ship/upgrade production possible.
Also consider that if it was all too complex, the whole economy could crash just because the player blew up one factory. That would be a gamekiller.
I wouldn't mind planets if it's without animated players/NPC walking about. Would be mainly eye candy to enter atmosphere, fly over landscapes and dock at stations on the ground, in mountains, submarine (Borons will like that) etc..
I'm a bit disappointed that complex economy didn't make it to the top ranks. Although X3 is not only a trade simulation, the economy is a vital part. As it is right now it's quite separated from warfare: races, particular Xenon and Kha'ak, have unlimited resources. Their ships just respawn, appear from 'somewhere else'. A sound tactical move would be to find and destroy their resources. That's not possible right now.
Similar applies for the ships at SY's; they are not build (consuming resources), they spawn. Even worse, the shields and weapons for various types (N,M,L) are not bought, they just spawn, too.
And there is the issue of software and upgrade equipment. Where are triplex scanners, ecliptic projecter etc. produced? Who is producing MK software? Wouldn't it be great to have Software Stations which would require personel, food and energy to run?
Also 'Pimp My Ride' shops where you can buy speed/rudder upgrades and cargobay extensions?
It would not only enrich trading but also open new strategies in warefare. For example, if you destroy the software stations of a race then their ships will come without fight MK, hence no missile defense for their turrets
etc. .
esd wrote: I'm not sure that complexity's the right word then - you seem to be asking more for the economy to follow through to a "logical conclusion". The same basic economy principles can be maintained, but extra resource requirements and more factories would certainly make ship/upgrade production possible.
Also consider that if it was all too complex, the whole economy could crash just because the player blew up one factory. That would be a gamekiller.
Yeah well not that complex... If modular factories can produce multiple goods you've got more choice... e.g. different types of ore from a mine.
What I mean by Complex is the inclusion of wages and the improvement of the AI so that it acts more like businesses in the real world...
e.g. Logistics, Importers and Security companies... Companies that put down standing orders... Contracts to fulfil an order or purpose to give additional options to the player like a logistics firm (like the missions the player can carry out but continuous), or to provide escorts or security for a fee... A Black Economy with pirates trading with you under the table... Trade Wars and Blockades!!! But this is going into faction territory...
Other Ai mobile mining... maybe even large TL ships with mobile fabrication facilities that you can land on and buy products...
Basically I want a bit more life to the economy...
If a single factory holds so much power then the economy isn't complex enough!!!
The problem with an economy that doesn't have 'magic sinkholes' for produce, and doesn't create new low level produce without resources is that the economy could then crash, in a big way.
The thing is, X is a game. Most players (myself included) would be a bit miffed if the economy suddenly collapsed, either because of player actions, or a slight lack of balance with the AI.
That's the problem with AI. The more complex it is, the more emergent properties it has. They sound fun, but they can destroy a game with great ease.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
I'd agree that it is a factor but that's what 'GOD' is for so that you would have to take out ten to thirty factories before the economy started to run into serious problems... and even then another race would come in maybe from practically the other side of the universe and supply the goods at top credit...
The economy would only collapse with some serious fleet action... If the player has the forces to destroy a race then they only have themselves to blame if they don't like the outcome...
Walk into a large supermarket and count the product lines................
Each race in X has a single food stuff.
If I had to eat meatsteak cahoona's for breakfast, lunch and dinner I would go crazy. I know this is only a game, and the economic model has limits.
BUT, a food resource complex could produce multiple foodstuffs. Each of which could be a valid resource for other factories. I appreciate the failings of the economic model in other areas and have read many ideas on how to improve this area.
As far as I am concerned, the economy, ships, wares, stations, sectors and gameplay are all constrained by the User Interface. Without a radical redesign, much of anybodies wish list will remain extremely hard to implement.
It was a woman who drove me to drink... you know I never went back and thanked her.
Don't try to outweird me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.
silentWitness wrote:What I mean by Complex is the inclusion of wages and the improvement of the AI so that it acts more like businesses in the real world...
I'm not so keen on that, it brings too much micromanagement into the equation I think.
silentWitness wrote:What I mean by Complex is the inclusion of wages and the improvement of the AI so that it acts more like businesses in the real world...
I'm not so keen on that, it brings too much micromanagement into the equation I think.
Yes well wages can be dropped... but I think contracts would be a worthy addition...
I'd be happy to see ships requiring resources (and production time) to be constructed... say, Ore, Computers, Teladianium, eCells, munchies, and perhaps a couple other new components like Drive Components or some such.
Also, all the Argon foods could be lumped into "Argon Foodstuffs" (unprocessed) and "Argon Food Products" (processed), rather than having the entire Argon universe eat only Meatsteaks. same could go for Split, Boron, Paranid, Teladi. (if the Xenon became sentient, though, would they require food? Perhaps AA batteries )
hmm tough one, I'd say more complex economy first, that's what the game needs most of these all in my opinion.
modular ships/factories is a close 2nd and factions/corporations a close 3d though.
planetoid inclusion, would be a nice gimmick, but a lot more coding. I'd rather see bigger "solar-system" size like sectors, with new in-sector jumpdrive(yes I am thinking that big) cause seta would take too long
maybe satalites/beacons for in system jump points where factories/asteroids are, a lot more spaced out then is the case with x now though. It jsut doesnt feel spacy the way it is now.
I wont mind if for x4 the universe size is drastacly reduced to implement this(back to sector count like it was in btf) yes less setors, but dont forget that sectors get a LOT bigger
Avast ye chumsucking scumbuckets. Landlubbers be keelhauled, pillage them poodles and bring missery and mutiny to the mercifull
well when i started playing i was blown away by how complex the trading was at all, with individual traders going around wherever and all, adding all this new stuff would make the game great fun for us now that we know the game, but for someone new to it, it may put them off it completely
)
(Split and Paranid vs. Argon and Boron, Teladi hired as mercs by one or another side)
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