M2 Ships should be able to dock small quantities of fighters

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Well, the thing is that this is not about strategy, but about logic. A ship the size of an M1 with twice as many guns, that costs just as much has to have one or two docking ports, no?

Rustam

You amy have noticed that the cost of M1s and M2s are about the same in X3 so... you either dock a few squadrons or you carry more guns.

[Gambito]

Well, the thing is that this is not about strategy, but about logic. A ship the size of an M1 with twice as many guns, that costs just as much has to have one or two docking ports, no?

Rustam

You amy have noticed that the cost of M1s and M2s are about the same in X3 so... you either dock a few squadrons or you carry more guns.

Thats how i see it, more guns or dock ships.

Its like somebody starting a thread stating "the M1 is huge! it could easily have 2 more main and aft weapon hardpoints on it!" then somebody replying "you want more weapons? have a M2 escort ya ya f00b"

[rustamk]

Its like somebody starting a thread stating "the M1 is huge! it could easily have 2 more main and aft weapon hardpoints on it!" then somebody replying "you want more weapons? have a M2 escort ya ya f00b"

Let's go over this...

M1: Half the Number of Guns of the M2
M2: A Large Number of Guns

M1: Large Number of Docked Ships
M2: No Docked Ships

I'm not sure which forum you are talking about where people call others "f00b" (not even sure what it means) but it's not this one.

Now take a look at your logic and tell me if everything is OK... If you don't get it, while the M1 has half the number of guns of the M2, the M2 does not have half the number of docking spaces of the M1. In fact, it has zero docking spaces. And I am not asking for half, but for 3-5 spaces.

Rustam

[Sandalpocalypse]

M2s also have 50% more shields, and nothing stops fighters (which are entirely self sufficient) from escorting it, or the M2 from supplying them utilizing a transporter.

you only ever need 1 M1 in a fleet, everything else should be M2s optimized for combat, and they certainly don't need any docking if there's an m1 around.

if it still bugs you, ask for a mod in the scripts forum you big goober. obviously you don't agree with this part of egosoft's concept of X3, so...change it!

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Its like somebody starting a thread stating "the M1 is huge! it could easily have 2 more main and aft weapon hardpoints on it!" then somebody replying "you want more weapons? have a M2 escort ya ya f00b"

Let's go over this...

M1: Half the Number of Guns of the M2
M2: A Large Number of Guns

M1: Large Number of Docked Ships
M2: No Docked Ships

I'm not sure which forum you are talking about where people call others "f00b" (not even sure what it means) but it's not this one.

Now take a look at your logic and tell me if everything is OK... If you don't get it, while the M1 has half the number of guns of the M2, the M2 does not have half the number of docking spaces of the M1. In fact, it has zero docking spaces. And I am not asking for half, but for 3-5 spaces.

Rustam

You are asking for X2 destroyers basically, but why do you want the docked ships??? I found them not usefull in M2 combat situations in X2 and I suspect it will be the same in X3.

On the subject of M2s in comparison with M1s, I have not checked but I suspect that M2s have bigger powersupplies for those extra guns. Power supplies would take up more space hence no room for docking bays.

[rustamk]

The power supplies on M2s are bigger then on M1s, but come on, space for a couple of M3s?

Rustam

[Sandalpocalypse]

these are rationalizations of a game change made for gameplay reasons.

if the game stayed so that m2s could dock fighters, than the rationalization would be there was still some room left. since its not...then the rationalization is otherwise.

[AB14]

I found that having a fighter docked to my destroyer gave me a great deal of flexablity. For example if I wanted to pick up some cargo after a battle it was a lot easier to transfer to the fighter than waddle around in the Destroyer. I like to concentrate on flying a single large ship at a time and not worry about having to have a carrier around or a large transport which I may collide with during a battle or may increase the chance of squashing a neutral ship.

It is logical for all large ships to have somekind of dockable support ships, whether they are combat worthy or even just used for shuttling things around- don't tell me these huge ships aren't even going to have somekind of TP lifeboat? You wouldn't catch me on one!

Maybe it just one of those "features" they didn't have time to put in this rushed game.

[karvala]

Yer I do see your point on this but in X2 I used oddies equiped GPSG's so it wasn't really worth having fighters on board becouse u know what would happen if I launched them in the middle of a battle.
BOOM!

P.S
They were a law unto themselfs them thing.
Send them in and get out the bloody way

LOL, in X2 you didn't need any other ships with an Oddy and GPSGs. I used to send mine into Xenon sectors with all the turrets automated, go and make a cup of coffee, and come back to a pile of Xenon debris. Oddies with GPSGs were basically invincible. It was hilarious. But good fun!

[Yonder]

Can you order your ships to transfer freight using the freight beam remotely? If you can do this the lack of docking ships isn't a problem, however if you have to be in one of the ships involved to transfer the freight using the beam then it is a very big problem indeed.

[Sandalpocalypse]

yonder...um, why would you be one of the ships?

if you're OOS you can have ships eject freight and have the m2 pick them up or vice versa

[nilof]

Personally, I would be okay with ONE docking slot, a bit like the RL destroyers have a single helicopter pad.

The transpoter device is useful, but when I am in my M2 I don't want to need to ask a ship to jump to the sector I am in, travel to me to use transpoter, (ships are slower in X3 so that takes time) transport to a ship, and THEN docking with it to check the BBS, ECT.

Also, I would like to have the E-cell ferry docked with me so I don't have to give the jump command to both me and my ship.

RL diff between a destroyer and a carrier.

Carrier: Carry lots of plances, copters,ECT.
Destroyer: Has ONE helicopter to ferry occasional crew members or something, or to scout.

Carrier: poor guns and less protection.
Destroyer: exels in firepower.

[d3viant]

maybe just 1 docking bay, for m3's, m4's, m5's and TS ships. Any more than 1 docking bay begins to make an M2 more worthwhile than an M1

[Yonder]

so if you are OOS you can't have a ship beam it's freight to another ship?

[Sandalpocalypse]

stop comparing them to real life ships. it really doesnt work.

[rustamk]

Why not? The thing is there are no real "battleships" anymore. They are all obsolete now.

No, I am thinking logically. You would think that a huge ships the size of the M2 would have space for 1/2 docked ships.

Rustam

[Sandalpocalypse]

logic doesn't even begin to enter into this.

[g04tn4d0]

That and the Mammoth (and all transport ships) need to be changed around to allow freighters (any size) dock.

[rustamk]

logic doesn't even begin to enter into this.

Please explain. Is it not logical that a ship the size of an M2 can dock at least some smaller fighters?

To people who say that dockable M2s would disrupt the M1/M2 balance, that's not true, as 60 docking spaces = 1 M1 at 70 Million, but 60 Spaces = 12 M2s (5 spaces each) each at 70 Million = 840 Million... my my, an expensive fleet.

Rustam

[Darshu]

Well, I'm of the mind that large ships need tenders. Makes sense. Both for crew AND cargo, and in the X-Universe, while the Transporter IS available, its somewhat rediculous to expect every single ship you ever buy to fly to Home of Light for JDs and CSW for Transporters. What should have changed was making JDs and Trans upgrades that could be purchased in bulk, so you could buy an M2 somewhere, Jump in your transport ship, and kit out your new ship.

Here's the layout as I see it, for the ships:

M1 - Can dock any and all ships short of M6s and higher. So TS, TP, M3-5, should all be dockable, inside the ship. This makes sense, since a carrier will use the most materiel in kitting out fighters, and needs the largest amount of crew (theoretically) and consumables.

M2 - Has two external docking ports, that can accept either a TP or TS. The TS obviously transports needed material and consumables (e-cells), and the TP functions as a "Captains Launch" deal. No other ships can dock. A TP fills the role of Launch better than a fighter anyways, since its supposed to be a touring craft, not a combat fighter.

TL - I'm a little unsure here. In X2, the Elephant was my favorite ship, since it was a very affordable carrier for the "BBS Warrior" in me. Since X3 has very little to offer via the BBS at this point, I guess this is out. A TL should ideally have at least a small docking bay, size dependent on race, that can accept a number of TS class ships, especially once mobile mining is put back in, its rediculous to expect a TL to mobile mine by itself unless they introduce a ship upgrade that sweeps all ore into the TL itself, such as a "Magnetic Scoop" or something. In the spirit of X2, I would also allow at least one of each fighter class to dock, as well as the internal bay accepting TPs, so that once Egosoft fixes up the BBS board with some new content, we can get back to the good old BBS Warrior days!

M6 - Definitely need to be able to dock an M5, I have no idea why this was changed. Similar to the M2 concept of a launch, the M5 serves as a support craft and various other roles, including e-cell ferry. This is a definite must!

All these ship I've flown by in my M5 and up, and I would say that the ship I've mentioned for each class should have plenty of room to dock inside the ship. If you want an idea for how it should look, just watch Star Wars Ep.III. The scene where Kenobi flies the beat up looking fighter to the Corellian Blockade Runner and docks inside. While we don't need the animation, we need the ability, in my humble opinion.