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General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

I know, its a long way off, but I've decided to make a thread... mainly for fantasizing what it will be like. OK? please this is for the people who look forward to it :)

Anyway, just imagine:
Corporations, largely run by a handful of people, a large battle breaks out by rival corps, in a quiet sector. Someone, on the side of a rich corporation calls for backup, they feel like they're failing. Only to give their oponents a fright, when a large Battleship cruises into the sector, all guns prepped for action, blazing through the enemy, like a hot knife on butter... :o

wow just imagining this gives me hope.

PS, before anyone says, I know its what they're aiming for a MMOG, but they lack major funding, I've read the posts, visited the site and am aware, so please dont flame, I give a reason above ^ thankyou :)
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terrabyte
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Post by terrabyte »

"I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe, hmmm."

Who am I :?: , I am but the sum of my experiences… and today I am more than I was yesterday. :goner:
Carl Sumner
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Post by Carl Sumner »

I think there will be games like that some day. It would take a really big server though. And very high speed links.

If it included the economy and all of the sectors, the data load would be huge. Of course, the client side would only need the current sector data and the remote scanner data if you were looking at that. But with all of the trade ships and stations in a sector it would be a lot of lag. We have a lot of lag even on single user games.

The main problem might be that the server would have to be persistant, with no saves and no retries. This would be a problem to design properly, so that players did not get too frustrated. 8)

See the old threads on this. :wink:

Actually, there is a multiplayer mode. It is here, the X2 forums! :P
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Tenlar Scarflame
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Post by Tenlar Scarflame »

oh how sexy this would be. :twisted:

one capitalist pig's fleet of M2's clashes with another's... tremendous waves of PPC blasts... torpedoes buzzing like angry bees... massive fleets of fighters... all controlled by real people... *drools*

but, as has been said, it would be really hard to get it to work right. So that players couldn't screw over the economy (easily... mwehehe), and so that it wouldn't lag up so much.

But still... I'd just love to be able to call up a wingman who lives in England to get a bogey who lives in Germany off your tail in Virginia... while trading spices with a guy in Australia and buying out some loser in Kentucky :wink:
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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

Yes, there are problems... unforunetly :cry: but hopefully by the time this kind of game is made:
1. I could afford it
2. All these problems, they've been cured by the technology of the time

Who knows what the future holds :) All we can do is wait.
But there's no harm in imagining what they'd be like... is there? :D

Maybe a way of cutting down the lag, is for people to hire traders (as in actual people not AI), but still there will be a hell of alot of people required for this, and another problem would be the leveling system, once people have reached the top, where do they go?

Anyway, I could imagine being a trader for corporations, then when I feel happy I've become the best I can be... I move onto being a fighter, searching for battles, aiming for a battleship, but I'd be happy with a corvette :D
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ajsarge
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Post by ajsarge »

Idea: Factories and capital ships LARGER than an M6 have to be purchased by a Corperation, AKA, a Clan. Once a factory is purchased, the corperation can hire other players, who can then join the Corp. and gain more money from working, or they can stay a freelance trader and make less money, but still have their freedom. There will have to be many chages to the X-universe for an MMOG to work, and it's not just how factories and capital ships work. There are already multiple threads out there about this, so just search around.
JihadJoe
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Post by JihadJoe »

people,if you post ideas,do it in the devnet.
Last edited by JihadJoe on Sun, 3. Jul 05, 12:00, edited 1 time in total.
Banana Split
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Post by Banana Split »

There's nothing wrong with posting an idea here. It probably won't get seen, but there's more freedom to talk about it. :wink:

Advertising could be very important. Either on station BBS, scrawled across the side of your ships or in a slick video advert, your company logo would need to be seen. Maybe you could even sponsor a gate racing team!
JihadJoe
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Post by JihadJoe »

I haven't said that it is WRONG.
I just said that it's more likely for a developer to read the idea in the DEVNET ,than here.
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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

Advertising... now thats a good idea :wink:

Also to reduce the cost for the player, would it not be a good idea to get sponsors from fast food chains etc, say McDonalds or KFC... and see adverts for that on giant screens when you dock to a station, and then also allow you to order a meal over the internet?
This would:
1. keep the cost down, attracting more people.
2. Create more customers for these fast food chains.
3. Add realism to the game.
You know I think I will put this in DevNet. :D

And this is an idea already being used for some online games.
JihadJoe
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Post by JihadJoe »

I simply hate fast food.it's trash.the best junk is the one we make in the middle east ( flafel and shawarma)simply delicous :P
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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

I know, I dont like fast food, last time I had some I was almost sick... I used to eat it just about every weekend when I was younger... but if it reduces the price for players I'm not complaining, although I might when I start to get hungry :roll:

I dont know if youve seen them, those flat LCD screens that are bendable, but if big marketing companies get there hands on them, you wont be able to go anywhere without seeing one of those :shock:

Aah whats the world coming too? :lol:
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Tenlar Scarflame
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Post by Tenlar Scarflame »

CAPITALIST PIGS!! THEY MUST ALL DIE

*terraforms them all* :twisted:
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Post by Tianarha »

Tenlar Scarflame wrote:CAPITALIST PIGS!! THEY MUST ALL DIE

*terraforms them all* :twisted:
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Agreement to the End User License Agreement of this Garden Of Eden Creation Kit (tm) entitles the licensee to terraform one (1) territory. Terms and conditions apply. Use only as directed. Subject to regulations and local ordinances. Results may vary. This agreement explicitely waives any claims against the manufacturer. (k) 2005 All rites reversed.
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Post by plawolf »

i have an idea as to how such a game can be made practical to start off with. i would like to post it here first before going to devnet to see how everyone thinks of it. also, i have a general idea of how i think it might all work, but things are coming to me as i write them down, so the structure of the post is a little chaotic, my appologies in advanced.

here goes:

at the start, everyone gets to choose a race, so everyone has the option to starts off as an employee of a government, and if the choose that career path, is assigned to a station (or a carrier in the case of fighter pilots, if you are lucky :wink: ) at random. as a government employee, you are given two ships - a freighter and a fighter and assigned a home base.

as a government employee, you will be given a basic salary and given missions that must be completed in a certain time frame. the missions would be designed so that you get to explore the space of that race as you do your job, and you would also get a mix ot trade and combat. but you dont get to go 'abroad' until you have reached a certain rank, and even then its only to boarderline systems. as a government employee, there will also be strick rules that must be followed (ie no piracy, no trading with hostile races, no selling of ship equipment and you might also have players from some other races set as hostile as default etc), or you face fines or even expeltion if you offend too often.

between missions you can make a little on the side through independent trading with your own money. and maybe also do a little exploring. but you can be given a mission at any time (or, alternatively, you are given a pre-set holiday to do what you like, and you get to keep the government ship, provided you bring it back in one piece that is), and there will be a time limit so that has to be taken into account (the time limit is calculated based on your ship speed and the distance to homebase + a little spare time so you wont get impossible missions).

if your ship gets blown up, you are auto-ejected (and dont appear like Khaak or xenon pilots when they eject so as not to get killed by PSGs or bad piloting) and respaw at your homebase and gets supplied with a new ship.

to balance things out, you would loose money from your personal account, any extra equipment and upgrades you made to the ship and also take a hit to your trade and combat rank depending on what role you were playing at the time (ie if you got killed while on a trade run, your trade rank will take a bigger hit then your combat rank, and vise versa). maybe if you die too often, you get a downgraded ship (slower/ no turret/ less cargo bay etc).

alternatively, you can have spacesuits, but also a volentary ejection option and you only return to your homebase after a short while in space. the incentive is that you dont loose your own money (as you would have time to gather everything up before you eject :p ), and maybe also take a smaller hit on the rankings.

this means that people are encoraged to eject as opposed to just sit in a hopeless situation and get killed. ie making combat and piracy more attractive. this should tempt more people to take up piracy and also give the government fighterboys something to do.

but if you kill a spacesuit, there will be a record of that so that pilots can check out the stats of their attackers before deciding whether or not to eject. this means that pirates would have an incentive to not kill spacesuits, which might make things interesting in combat.

if your spacesuit is destroyed before you are returned to your station, you just loose the same credits and rankings as if you never ejected at all.

with spacesuits, there also comes the option of being scooped up and sold as slaves option.

again, there would be a record of such activity AND the for both, the victim pilot would get a special log that lists all the people that have done this to him/her, and any property that the offender owns is marks in flashing red (as opposed to just red for any hostile) automatically unless the victim deselects that specific offender or the option as a whole.

if you havent guessed it already, if you are going to play nasty, you better watch your back. but them this might appeal to many. :P

the government option is safe and restrictive, with promotional options so players that persist get the reward of more pay and better and more ships as they progress through the ranks and can end up as station/station chain/ sector managers or battleship commanders (all stations and cap ships will start off AI controled and also be AI controled when the player given command of it is not online, potental problem if the said station/ship gets destroyed when the player assigned to it is not around at the time :gruebel: ). high-ranking government employees would also get preferable treating in applying for construction licences (will go into detail on this later).

however, there will also be the independent option.

i have already meantioned the piracy option. pirate bases would be set up in the pirate sectors where government fighters and warships are not allowed to enter (could just write it in as sectors that are hotly disputed between races and that any offical military incution would be seen as an act of war - like a future demiliterised zone).

to make things interesting, at the start of the game a lottery system would send messages to players at random inviting them to join a pirate base/clan. these lucky few would get a pirate base assigned and get new ships if they die...basically the same treatment as government employees minus the pay. but they would be afforded much more freedom, with fewer complusery missions, and of course, they get to just blow things up for fun. :twisted:

that should build up a core of pirates to start off with, and as more players progress in their own games, they can choose to join the pirates when they are good enough - there would be a modestly high combat rank requirement for players to be offered the chance to become a pirate.

the incentive for joining a pirate clan is so they also enjoy free replacement ships of the same class (replacement ships are pirate patern ships like orinocos and baymons instead of the ship the player had before) when they die, and also the player themselves are not identified as a pirate - when someone not a member of that pirate clan brings up the ship info, they only get the rankings and clan name, not the pilot name. meaning the pilot is not marked out and has the option of returning to civilian life later on if he so wishes or even running two lives at the same time. joining a clan also means that you are unlikely to be attacked by fellow clan members, as that will carry with it penalties for the attacker. but the pilots will have to give the pirate base/clan a cut of their profits as protection money.

to make sure people are given a chance to join a pirate clan instead of being shot to pieces before they get anywhere near a pirate base, all pilots with the sufficient ranking would be offered the chance to become a pirate when they enter a pirate sector for the first time. after that, a player need to get withing comms range and hail the base to join.

apart from the pirating option, there will also be the freelancer trader and mercinary options.

for these options, you start off with two fairly good ships (compared to the government employees) and a reasonable amount of money, and you can do what you want.

there will be of course BBS missions (btw, individual players would be able to offer BBS missions as well, with auto-filtering sifting out the missions with higher ranking requirements then what a player is at, as to not have unmanageble amounts of BBS missions on the boards, a player would also have the option of auto-filtering out missions with too small a reward) to take, and a player can do independent trading, and can also offer up sector information for sale to make money. the quality of the data would be auto assessed and auto-priced so a sector map with all the asteriods scanned will be worth alot more then a map with only a few roids scanned etc (there would also be a limit as to how many time the info for a certain sector can be sold by a person, so someone cant make a rediculous amount of money from just selling maps, also, the limit is on the sector and not the info, so you cant re-offer the map for sale after scanning one more asteroid).

being a free-lancer also means that you can enter the pirate sectors and trade between hostile races, and can buy low and sell high to make alot of money by trading between hostile races. but there is also a much greater risk of doing so, so a trader might want to offer a BBS mission to hire some escorts (of course, the whole pricing scheme would need to be drastically re-tuned to make all this viable, purhaps with the introduction of high-end comsumer products that are bought by various trading stations whatever the quantity at a fixed prices based on a risk+distance scale).

the balancer would be that if you loose your ship, you loose it for good. meaning that you would either have to buy insurance at high game play hour rates (ie, xxxx credits for every game hour) which become more expansive as you loose more ships, or you risk being stranded on the nearest station after you die, and have to call in your other ship (if you still had it), or having to buy a ride to the nearest shipyard to buy a new or used ship.

- side note, when someone sells a ship at a shipyard, it is sold on a bidding basis. the player selling the ship can place a minimum price and just walk away. people can bid for as long as they can be bothered, and the seller gets his money minus a small handling charge sent to his accounts when the ship is sold after an uncontested bid has been made. or he will get a message telling him no-one has met the minimum sell price after a set period of time.

- side note, equipment docks should have unlimited amounts of equipment on sale, but individual players have a quota on the number of each time they can buy in a certain period. this opens up another possible earner as an arms dealer - buying up weapons and equipment as often as you are allowed and offering to sell them in bulk at inflated prices. :wink:

anyways, the point being that the player BBS means that there should be an infinate number and type of missions on offer to players, and that is the most important feature i had in mind.

freelancers would also have the option of starting or joining private corperations after a while.

to start a corperation, one only needs a station. you can either trade by yourself, or hire other freelancers with ships to work for you either on a perminant basis, or on one-off BBS missions, or you can buy ships have have them autotrade.

to give the freelancers a chance, i propose a few changes to the current system.

first off, if you hire someone and their ship gets destroyed, they are given a new one free of charge to either of you, so all that is lost is the contents of the ship.

if you bought corporate insureance, that would be replaced as well. if you didnt, you can take it out of the pay of the person who lost the ship, or you can sack him or take equipment from his ship as compansation etc. there will be a number pre-set options a factory owner can select when hiring, and what has been selected would be listed in the job description.

setting up in the heart of a race's territory is the safest option, but you need a licence to set up a station in the territory of any race (and there will be a limited number of licences as to not overload certain sectors, and each person will be given a cap as to the number of licences he can hold in each sector, again, crafty people would realise that there is money to be made in buying and re-selling developing licences). there will be a sliding scale licencing price policy meaning the safer a sector, the more expansive the licence to operate there will be.

setting up in the outer sectors would be cheaper and have more potential for higher profits, but with all the player controled pirate ships around, dont expect AI traders to last long on their own out there. so fighter escorts might need to be hired. with so many dangers a player may wish to buy or hire some hydras or osprays and have 'stops' in the safer sectors where transports can meet up with the M6s and transport cargo to and from the warships to get it across dangerous sectors (see a use for the hydra at last! :D ).

- side note. satilites, video enhancement goggles, jumpdrives, 25MW and 125MW sheilds, silkworm and hornet missiles, PPCs, mass drivers, PSGs, Ion-Ds, lasertowers, quash mines, freight scanners etc would be listed as restricted equipment by governments and not traded freely so as to make gameplay more complex instead of just everyone Ion-Ding/ PSGing/ mass drivering ( :? ) horneting each other and seeing who pulled the trigger first.

limited numbers of these items would hidden in remote places at the start, and made extra special by being indestructable (missiles, mines, lasertowers, satillites etc will be indestructable only to the point when it is deployed, after that it becomes normal). so if a ship carrying one or more of such items is destroyed, the said equipment would remain and can be picked up (oh, i can just imagine the mass murder that would break out if a ship exploded in a crowded system to leave some of these items with everyone wanting them :twisted: :fg: ).

apart from these extra special equipment, a small number of the highest ranking government and pirate employees would be issued with some of the listed items as a reward for long (after reaching a certain rank) and/or distinguished service (like making five kills in one mission or something like that). issued special equipment can be destroyed with the ship (purhaps not always, with a 25% chance that some will survive).

also, shipments of such items would be made infrequently and heavily protected by the highest ranking government fighters and maybe even corvettes in the sector where the transport carrying the items is to spawn in.

the start and end of the journey would be 'leaked' to the pirates some time in advanced, and a small number of BBS notices would be posted at random near the rought giving the same info for a high fee.

the items would not be destroyed when the tranport carrying it is destroyed, but after that the items become just as easily destroyed as normally in the game.


for freelance mercs, there would be the run of the mill assassiation missions (but with much smaller pay); escrot missions, and government enlistment missions for major wars (skirmishes really) and maybe even station killing missions etc.

maybe if they throw in some big ticket missions like wars, xenon/khaak raids and natural spacial phanomion like meteor showers, black holes etc that destroys random stations once in a while, and/or have new sectors become accessable as the online community grows, we might have a pretty good and manageable game.

well, its getting late, and thats about all i have right now.

so what do you guys think?

is it doable? would you like to play such a game if it was made? any changes or expantions you would like to make on any of the points i made?
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Post by Legion400 »

Perfectly sound i see no reason to change it! :thumb_up:
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RavenIII
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Post by RavenIII »

Wow, best so far 8)

Also I think to limit the number of people flying Capital ships, limit it to a high level, And include expensive licences (which a large enough corporation can afford)

And I'm a little confused, with the missions, how you say you can recieve them at anytime, thats a good idea, but allow the pilot to accept them when they want, as they may be in the middle of something (I personally would get annoyed if I was in a dogfight and a message screen came up :evil: )

But otherwise a just about flawless idea (and one that I think should be made)

Also to add to that, to stop newbie smashing a form of police in major sectors, like a newbie protection force or something, until you get to a certain level you are protected by these, unless you enter a sector which is not part of there patrol.
JihadJoe
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Post by JihadJoe »

hamm...maybe what I will change is the mercs thing.that in order to accept a certin mission,you may need to be in a clan (or a squade or whatever).and whan the plaers will get killed,they will respawn in thiere homebase.I sure that there are many other things to add to the game.
other than that,you made great points ! post it in the DEVNET.
plawolf
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Post by plawolf »

RavenIII wrote:Wow, best so far 8)

Also I think to limit the number of people flying Capital ships, limit it to a high level, And include expensive licences (which a large enough corporation can afford)
i was thinking about that, but then i settled on the restricting equipment option.

this way, independents can still buy warship hulls, but they would be forced to equip them with low grade shields and weapons (they would get one 125MW shield as standard, but the remaining shield slots would likely only be filled with 5MW and 25MW sheilds).

however, against other players piloting M4s and M3s with no WMD or heavy missiles, a titan with only HEPTs and low grade shields would still be a formidable opponent. especially if it has player fighter support and also have real people maning the turrests.

this should give coporations more military muscle compared to independents, but still handicap them so one or two coporations are unlikely to become too powerful and threaten the universe order.
And I'm a little confused, with the missions, how you say you can recieve them at anytime, thats a good idea, but allow the pilot to accept them when they want, as they may be in the middle of something (I personally would get annoyed if I was in a dogfight and a message screen came up :evil: )
yeah, unfortunately i have it planned that the government mission takes precedent over all else (after all, you are meant to a government employee first and formost) the reasoning behind that is that is two fold.

first, i would prefer that as much of the trading, fighting etc be done by people as possible. but for all this to work, people need to do what they are told when they are told, or else it just wont work.

secondly, its a built in handicap for players choosing the government option. it needs some downsides to balance things out or else if would effectively make everyone government employees and kill off the other career options (priate corporations would not be able to compete if there are not enough players willing to work for them etc).

this would be made clear to the players before they commit and will help them to decide which career option they would like to go down (basicly, or now anyways, its safe and restricted v free and dangerous).

as for getting missions in the middle of a dogfight. well i guess you can say that is part of the risk of being a government employee. :P

but anyways, that was part of the reason for the built in 'grace period' - meaning that you should get a modest amount of free time left over if you set off for your target at max speed right away (purhaps you can have a dual count down, with the amount of free time available to you ticking off first). this should allow you to win a fight or disengage, or to finish the trade run you were on etc.

purhaps there would be a reward system set up for getting to your destination before schedual as a form of positive incentive.

but the type of mission you get would be based on the ship type you are flying at the time (as it would be obserd for a freighter to get an escort mission).
But otherwise a just about flawless idea (and one that I think should be made)
thanks, i was worried that no-one would like it. :oops:
Also to add to that, to stop newbie smashing a form of police in major sectors, like a newbie protection force or something, until you get to a certain level you are protected by these, unless you enter a sector which is not part of there patrol.
good idea. but instead of setting up a dedicated police force, i think this can be handed over to the government fighter boys.

basically, government fighters would be given a patrol order for a set period of time. when they must stay within a certain sector for a set period of time. (edited: change) also all pilots get a 'distress call' option when they have been hit a few times first (so the person who crosses the 'friendly fire' thresh-hold first dont get a 'distress call' option).

if they are attacked, they can use that option to broadcast a system wide distress call to all government fighter pilots. (edited: add) so the victim ship would flash on the sector map of all government fighter pilots of patrol, and the attacker would be marked out in red. there can also be a police licence for freelancers and off duty government employees to answer distress calls and get a reward after they have bought the licence. as with the single player game, the licence is revoked if they attack someone that is not mark out as a hostile.

any fighters that answers the call and starts firing on the hostile before the victim ship starts taking hull damage gets a big cash bonus, a smaller one if they intervine before the victim is destroyed.

also, the pilots would get a fixed cash bonus for destroying the hostile ship regardless of the fate of the victim, so players are obliged to stay the course and actually help out the poor newbie instead of just showing up and firing a shot to claim the reward. :roll:
plawolf
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Post by plawolf »

JihadJoe wrote:hamm...maybe what I will change is the mercs thing.that in order to accept a certin mission,you may need to be in a clan (or a squade or whatever).and whan the plaers will get killed,they will respawn in thiere homebase.I sure that there are many other things to add to the game.
other than that,you made great points ! post it in the DEVNET.
but wouldnt the distinction between government employee and freelancer become blurred if that was the case?

i was trying to create different pros and cons for players depending on the career path they chose.

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