[#1404][6.20 Public Beta 5] Sector Security unwarranted aggression

[Tilen]

I am recording the Venus Energy Cell fab area (map view) to hopefully at least see how it starts so that we can get a clue.

My current guess is that one of the involved ships gets bumped by traffic while being scanned in front of the jump gate. This then fails the scan and hostilities commence.

It's super frustrating because if I let the game idle it's anybody's guess when and if it triggers and costs me at least a station and reputation.

[Tilen]

Because my Efab got destroyed by TER for like the 10th time, I noticed while rebuilding it that a few turrets were PAR. Could that have been an issue?

[j.harshaw]

PAR blueprints, you mean? No, that wouldn't have anything to do with it. It's all relations and consequence of action.

[Tilen]

Okay, so after having moved my station away from the jump gates, the issue has become less frequent.

I am quite certain that this has to do with Police scanning ships near jump gates. Could it be tied to the new physics engine, disrupting the process with bumps and crashes?

Because so far it really does seem that a ship at the jump gate failed the scan, then proceeded to dock with the Energy Cell, so hostilities spread. This is the working hypothesis.

[Alan Phipps]

The more usual situation is that a ship near a gate is scanned but then jumps away partway through the process and is then considered to have run from the authorities - even if 'clean'. It can also happen the other way if your police scan a contraband ship about to jump and then follow it into another faction's sector before attacking - which can cause unwanted conflict. Just highlighting alternative scenarios.

[Tilen]

Good call.

The issue could also be related to pirate cloaking. I can say for a fact, though, that this started happening with 6.00 for me, and never before have I seen ships ram eachother near jump gates OOS. This seems to be a novelty since 6.00.

But I might be wrong.

[PV_]

Problem was in beta 7 and since there is no changes related to police it is in beta 8 as well.
'Honshu' was on "supply fleet" behavior in ZYA system. Abruptly I got a message about unauthorized kill and lost rep with ZYA. I've paused and gone into log book. As usual there is no reference to exact sector where incident happened. But second log (0m) was about ZYA police asking to stop for scanning and comply response. Rest logs for past few minutes were about trading.
Auxiliary ship had order to comply on police request, no fire authorization overrides, no illegal goods, no illegal inventory. Turrets set to "defend". ZYA rep was 29/30.

[rudi_pioneer]

Looks like this issue: viewtopic.php?f=192&t=456933&hilit=Terr ... e&start=40 - can't post since beta is done.

I'm in 6.20, had this issue when not modified (wasn't sure if it was me or not), but right now that I'm sure it's a bug I only have modified saves

I have about 100 L Hokkaido miners in Sol, as station subordinates. Every day or so approximately, I'll get illegal cargo scan warning on one of my miners, and red police TER ship. police ship attacks my miner, miner retaliates, and then entire sector turns red at some point. I couldn't see a pattern besides that - once it happened in Asteroid Belt, another time in Uranus.

It's a new game and I made sure to check off all obvious suspects:

- engage settings are default
- no inventory items except with player ship
and so on

[Nanook]

...
- no inventory items except with player ship...

Are you sure about this? It's quite easy for a miner to expose spacefly eggs and unstable crystals during normal operations, and then accidentally run over them, putting them in their inventory. Then a nosy cop comes along and the rest is history.

[Irushian]

I'm wondering if this is some sort of comply bug, as I've noted my traders are not complying when I've told them through the interaction menu to (F).

[rudi_pioneer]

...
- no inventory items except with player ship...

Are you sure about this? It's quite easy for a miner to expose spacefly eggs and unstable crystals during normal operations, and then accidentally run over them, putting them in their inventory. Then a nosy cop comes along and the rest is history.

Definitely no inventory, I checked the UI for ships wirh inventory. Has this issue few times and last few games I made super sure there was nothing out of ordinary. I wasn’t even IS for space fly eggs to be collected. Build miners, assign to station, SETA.

Linked thread gave me some hope for fixing this because I think it’s ship complying timing error or something. Doing SETA with 135 miners and this happening once in player day means that chances are super low but still happens.

[PV_]

Are you sure about this? It's quite easy for a miner to expose spacefly eggs and unstable crystals during normal operations, and then accidentally run over them, putting them in their inventory. Then a nosy cop comes along and the rest is history.

Police still bugged with "response" from the target. I own sector and police. When I get reputation drops I always set pause on, so its like 1 sec since the incident. Once for 1-2 hours I get ally ship (usually construction vessel) or one of ally military ships marked hostile. Its indeed mark by my police. And the hostile target ALWAYS outside of my sector but strict next to the gate leading to my sector. Thus bug seems to tied to "no time for response before jump". Assuming police ask ship to stop and be scanned, but since ship right one frame from jump it gets through the gate and being outside of my sector no longer bothers to comply. Therefore police marks him hostile and engage into foreign sector to kill. And the worst of all in that time (auto "attack" order issued) police ships ignore any blacklists. Travel, activities, fire authorisation override - doen't matter, everything goes into bin.
Its really hard to catch up the moment, so no save file to provide.

[rudi_pioneer]

Wow, now that you mention it, every time I see red police unit, it’s always next to the gate or accelerator!

[Insects]

Collisions do seem to have increased significantly. I have some stations too close to the gates and a lot more ships than before are getting shields damaged and half hull due to crashing into station or other ships out of the gate.

Seems quite likely that police and ships being scanned near gate congestion might be getting rammed which then gets treated as running away.

Seems quite silly logic. The game engine knows perfectly well that the ship has its automatic Comply flag set so should never trigger a failure to comply aggression incident on those AI ships.

[j.harshaw]

Assuming police ask ship to stop and be scanned, but since ship right one frame from jump it gets through the gate and being outside of my sector no longer bothers to comply.

Thanks for the follow-up. Checked and tested, but ruled out. Up to the moment that a ship actually transitions to the next sector, the process can be interrupted (that's even when the jump animation starts to be visible).

[PV_]

Assuming police ask ship to stop and be scanned, but since ship right one frame from jump it gets through the gate and being outside of my sector no longer bothers to comply.

Thanks for the follow-up. Checked and tested, but ruled out. Up to the moment that a ship actually transitions to the next sector, the process can be interrupted (that's even when the jump animation starts to be visible).

Its really hard (perhaps impossible like with inactive elevator button) to catch up the exact bug moment. Each time I have save file close to the incident happened and reload it the culprit successfully passes my sector and even gets a police scan. Since neither once troublesome ship is in IS state any sudden illegal wares pickups are excluded.

[rudi_pioneer]

It's a hack, and changes game balance a bit, but this mod might fix it - viewtopic.php?f=181&t=457277&p=5201592#p5201592 - avoids police scans for player owned ships. I'd love to know if this prevents this rare bug for you.