Trade Fight Build Think....EXPLORE!

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Player
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Trade Fight Build Think....EXPLORE!

Post by Player » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 21:08

I wish X4 could add some deeper in terms of exploration. What could we have in this sense, within the X universe. Any suggestions?

And please, I'm not referring to the scanner used in X-Rebirth, although it could be used. :D

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Post by Skeeter » Sat, 17. Mar 18, 21:48

Be cool if exploring found hidden relics you can sell for decent money, hidden one of ship types that look well cool and higher than normal specs, natural space phenomenon you can scan to unlock some sort of benefit maybe hidden pirate station in a dense nebula that sold something special and unique. Stuff like that. Instead of exploring as in the basic sense of just seeing new areas which are mainly identical to others with just different background and music. As that's not exploring to me. Maybe finding long lost races could be good like where's the gonar gone to, or find a never seen before faction of race dedicated to that one area and offers unique missions there or buys and sells something only found there.
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Karvat
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Post by Karvat » Sun, 18. Mar 18, 00:54

They could add many things in this sense, black holes, nebulae, hidden outposts, asteroid bands forming corridors (this could be very interesting to break the monotony of empty space), clusters of large complex debris, electromagnetic interferences, abandoned wrecks ... But I think the most important thing is that these phenomena should be present in a random way, so as to ensure variety not only in the most intense areas of the sectors, but also in the most extreme edges, in the empty space, where until now there was never anything to look for, except for a few abandoned containers or ships that were not very interesting

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LittleBird
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Post by LittleBird » Sun, 18. Mar 18, 20:17

The major problem for exploration is the space itself.

I mean space is large, very large and has 3 dimensions. You can not just fly in a direction and hope for the best.
So you need an entry point. A signal, coordinates or visual clues. But if entry point and following points are to obvious it is not an exploration.

Next thing. What did you expect to explore? Abandoned stations and ships? Then what is your reward? The station must be far away from any trading route (otherwise it is not an exploration). So you can't use it. Sure you could find equipment but then it is just a special item container. Only the ship seems usefull. What else?

There are so many problems with exploration and a good implementation must be handmade not random. Because randomized exporation stuff must hit you in the face with clues or you would never noticed.
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Post by Greenhorn » Sun, 18. Mar 18, 23:24

Hmmmm lets see exploration /curiosity ,ideas .
(1) UFO base, I wonder where those ships got to and from?..
(2) Gate builders ,where do they manufacture those things in the first place?.there must be a factory somewhere and ships. to carry those things..??
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Post by monster.zero » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 15:01

Exploration begins with a map.

X-series really hasn't had a decent map of anything.....it's just a area simulator. Enter one scene then the next. It's NEVER felt like I'm in space! I'm stuck in a 'scene'...No freedom.

Just a top down map of what's in the star system would help!!

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Karvat
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Post by Karvat » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 17:07

I like the new map of X4, if I have to be honest, it seems well done

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Post by BigVern » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 20:01

Exploration is one of the big features in the "other" game and quite fun, albeit the ever attendant risk of stuffing up and losing all your data. I'm currently on the way back in from Saggy-A and contemplating setting out for Beagle Point once I've got an Anaconda and rolled a few FSD mods with Farseer.

Now quite how you could adapt that into the semi fictional galaxy of "X" would be challenging. We certainly don't have anything like the distances found in ED (I think Beagle Point is 65k LY from the Bubble) but it could make for an interesting campaign mission if done properly and less of a grind than doing the Hub in TC was.
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Killjaeden
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Post by Killjaeden » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 20:33

BigVern wrote:for an interesting campaign mission if done properly
In a sandbox, any exploration concept that requires handcrafting plots and locations will simply fail. Because you need so many locations and things to discover (because you have to assume that people will not find them and make it so they are not always there becasue you have to assume people play multiple games)

Exploration of the X3 universe was fun - the first time you did it. Now you know the sectors - what next? Exploration only is a viable game concept if there is always something new to discover -> infinite automatic content creation (or rather placement) required.
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Karvat
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Post by Karvat » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 21:02

Map generated randomly, and beyond becoming an infinitely long-lived game, solve all the problems of exploration

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Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 21:13

@ Karvat: "Map generated randomly ...".. That is not happening in X4:

Q. Will the universe be a set universe like other X games or is it procedural / randomized?

A. The map itself is not random or procedural but some of the content within it may be.
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Karvat
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Post by Karvat » Mon, 19. Mar 18, 21:37

I know, but maybe in X5 it could be an excellent solution to the problem, since many want something more to explore, and there can not be much more interesting than a whole new system to explore every time

Try to think if one day, with a randomly generated map the possibility will become infinite, this series would completely reach another level and would no longer pose the problem of manually inserting elements to explore

don911058
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Post by don911058 » Tue, 20. Mar 18, 00:00

X3 is an awesome game, but "exploration" was only a wonder at the first playthrough. All my other subsequent playthroughs pretty much use remote ships to to do exploration just to open up the map, mainly because of that "Godly" knowledge of sectors.

So why not have a combination of pre-made and random sectors to enhance replayability? We get the certain core sectors pre-generated, but there would be a limited number of outlying rim/unknown sectors randomly generated that would be different each playthrough. To add to the randomness, the connecting sectors to those random places would also be random. It makes sense at starting a game that we may have knowledge of the core sectors, but unknown sectors could be anywhere ready for exploration.

This would open up new gameplay, like missions to find a long lost exploration ship, locate a notorious pirate base, discover new artifacts/anomalies, or maybe even disturbing a hostile alien race that would start an invasion :D

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Post by BigVern » Tue, 20. Mar 18, 17:16

I'm fairly certain in ED most of the systems are procedurally generated. So I assume the game only generates the planet system the first time a CMDR arrives in the system. With over 40 billion star positions represented it would be impossible to hand design each one!

Of course the attraction for explorers in ED is getting a "first discovered" tag on a star or planet which quite surprisingly I was getting even on relatively well trodden paths out to Colonia and Sagittarius-A. That has less of an appeal in a single player game where no-one else is going see your achievement. We certainly don't want X4 going down the path of an always on-line environment, with the attendant rebuy etc. baggage that comes with it.

Perhaps another option for Egosoft is expanding "space legs" so in addition to the limited walk around stations in Rebirth we can do likewise in planet surfaces (within limited area) to find quest items or materials.
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Sandalpocalypse
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Post by Sandalpocalypse » Tue, 20. Mar 18, 17:47

Home of Light had excellent exploration. If they put material of that quality in x4 i'll be very happy.
Irrational factors are clearly at work.

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