AI - honestly?

Ugottabejoking · Post by **Ugottabejoking** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 11:41

So is this game some kind of school project? I mean HONESTLY: How can someone program such a poor AI? When i saw this

http://xrebirth.nexusmods.com/mods/95/? ... 3668&pUp=1

I was like: WTF! This is not just poorly done, whoever was in charge for this should be fired asap.

Drones are messed up.

Capital ships......for example in the mission from the "campaign", after you warpjumped to take over the enemy ship: Friendly Capital ships just stand there and don't fire at all. And then my friendly mothership and the enemis one start to fly into each other, resutling in a bad clipping error, where one ship is piercing the other.....WTF? There is barely ANYTHING the ships have to take care of. They do not need to take cover or need smart pathfinding, because the space is empty, beside some asteroids/stations now and then. HONESTLY? Is there even any AI in this game, or is this some placeholder shit, which is going on there?

Wow...just wow.

Kwitazk wrote:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbTSi2BNxg

Kwitzak · Post by **Kwitzak** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 11:45

Maybe you should check the link

Ugottabejoking · Post by **Ugottabejoking** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 11:46

Nope the link is correct, showing that a modder is actualyl fixing the AI within a few days and also revealing the way it was programmed.

"Make miners smarter! No longer will your miners just fly randomly around the center of the zone, hoping to bump into an asteroid! (yes, that\'s actually how egosoft programmed them :/ )"

Kwitzak · Post by **Kwitzak** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 11:48

LOL sorry thought you wanted us to see a screen on the carnarge

Ugottabejoking · Post by **Ugottabejoking** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 11:54

No I did not take screen shot

SteveMill · Post by **SteveMill** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:26

If that is what miners are programmed to do - fly around until they hit an asteroid then words fail me.

There cannot be any excuse at all for that. And what the hell is the AI like for other functions? Is this just an isolated incident?

If this is not true I hope a Ego person will come and put the record straight.

Cronos988 · Post by **Cronos988** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:36

SteveMill wrote:If that is what miners are programmed to do - fly around until they hit an asteroid then words fail me.

There cannot be any excuse at all for that. And what the hell is the AI like for other functions? Is this just an isolated incident?

If this is not true I hope a Ego person will come and put the record straight.

It's not all that surprising actually. Egosoft AI has a long history of being terrible. You know what X3 fighters are programmed to do? Attack - Evade - Attack - Evade, in random intervals. They received a few extra tricks over time (mostly for use against the player), but never anything that resembled situation awareness or actually intelligent behaviour. Just more maneuvers to be randomly triggered.

Have you played X3 without Gazz's MARS turret scripts? Those turrets just shoot at whatever gets into range first, thats it.

Post by **Henkie** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:37

I want to point out that it was explained in video's that automatic mining is less effecient than manual mining. This could wel be the reason why the AI does stupid things while mining. To be clear, I do not pretend that I know but it looks like a valid reason.

Haysand · Post by **Haysand** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:50

Henkie wrote: I want to point out that it was explained in video's that automatic mining is less effecient than manual mining. This could wel be the reason why the AI does stupid things while mining. To be clear, I do not pretend that I know but it looks like a valid reason.

Considering it is not only miners that suffer similar AI, it is unlikely intended in terms you speak of.

GraniteToe · Post by **GraniteToe** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:55

Henkie wrote:I want to point out that it was explained in video's that automatic mining is less effecient than manual mining. This could wel be the reason why the AI does stupid things while mining. To be clear, I do not pretend that I know but it looks like a valid reason.

Circular reasoning, or strawman argument?

Imari · Post by **Imari** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 12:58

Well, mining is one thingy. The fighter Ai is pretty messed up too. 3/4 of the time when the Fighter is attacking stations, they will just keep ramming the station, they aren't even stuck. Also the other half is they get stuck between the pipes and best of all they get stuck inside the station itself LOL. Not to forget, Capitals like to "ghost" through stations and other capitals...

jarlrmai · Post by **jarlrmai** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:01

bug listed as feature

Hob Anagerik · Post by **Hob Anagerik** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:01

But we were told by Bernd himself that because the stations are more open now, and they had improved the pathing, that this would mean that dogfighting in and out of the stations would be possible, right? Right?

Oh well, another entry goes up on the board entitled "Bernd once told me that....."

Haysand · Post by **Haysand** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:02

Imari wrote: Well, mining is one thingy. The fighter Ai is pretty messed up too. 3/4 of the time when the Fighter is attacking stations, they will just keep ramming the station, they aren't even stuck. Also the other half is they get stuck between the pipes and best of all they get stuck inside the station itself LOL. Not to forget, Capitals like to "ghost" through stations and other capitals...

...or freigthers on Escort missions - they keep ramming a station and bouncing off over and over and over.

Ratez · Post by **Ratez** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:07

This game is truly realistic. It immerses us by bringing real life intelligence into the game, including both spectrum of intelligence.

Who would of thought to create artificial stupidity? It is truly a work befitting of the 7 years they have spent on perfecting the game. Egosoft once again outdone themselves.

SteveMill · Post by **SteveMill** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:10

Cronos988 wrote:It's not all that surprising actually. Egosoft AI has a long history of being terrible. You know what X3 fighters are programmed to do? Attack - Evade - Attack - Evade, in random intervals. They received a few extra tricks over time (mostly for use against the player), but never anything that resembled situation awareness or actually intelligent behaviour. Just more maneuvers to be randomly triggered.

Have you played X3 without Gazz's MARS turret scripts? Those turrets just shoot at whatever gets into range first, thats it.

Yes, i know all that. I imagined that a rebuilt from the ground up over 7 years new engine would include a hugely improved AI.

daish0 · Post by **daish0** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:14

Why is everyone talking about "last 7 years" ... Albion Prelude came out 2011 ... we have 2013 ... those are 2 years, not 7 ... learn to calculate

spykidwkc · Post by **spykidwkc** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:16

This never happens to me

Hob Anagerik · Post by **Hob Anagerik** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:17

daish0 wrote:Why is everyone talking about "last 7 years" ... Albion Prelude came out 2011 ... we have 2013 ... those are 2 years, not 7 ... learn to calculate

Perhaps you should educate yourself before you point fingers at others. The rumour is that the game has been kicked around since X3: Reunion and was an attempt to enter the console market. Over the years this objective was increasingly unlikely, for a variety of reasons, and they were left with a chunk of beta code so they had a choice: ditch it or spin it as a "new" PC title. And here we are.

Now this is merely educated speculation in reality, with "evidence" being booted around that on first glance appears to be quite convincing.

If you were to ignore this however and believe this was developed from the ground up as a PC game then the reality is far more horrifying: that Egosoft are utterly incompetent and completely misjudged what their market really is and what their loving community desired.

Cronos988 · Post by **Cronos988** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 13:17

SteveMill wrote: Yes, i know all that. I imagined that a rebuilt from the ground up over 7 years new engine would include a hugely improved AI.

And that's really the biggest problem isn't it: It's not that this "isn't X4". It's that Egosoft doesn't seem to have learned a thing. The same exact mistakes and problems they had a decade ago.

I mean ships bumping into stations - thats such an old and well-known problem. The economy crashing - remember the Terran Sectors in Terran Conflict? No decent fighter AI after 7 years. And yet so many people are saying "well they have always fixed it, they will fix it this time". No they didn't. They never fixed the problems they had. They are good at some things, and terrible at others, and that hasn't changed. And what do they do in X:R? Do more of the things they are terrible at, and ignore the things they did well previously.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

AI - honestly?

AI - honestly?