Steam

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 20:54

I see a lot of hate towards steam.

WHY? is there some hidden eveil of steam that I can't see?

I bought the boxed version of x games.... but now i can use the codes from the box to unlock the steam download of the games, which i like cause of the achievements and the direct chat to others playing x games, plus it keeps the game updated and it's still easy to apply mods.

What am i missing that's so bad about steam?

Post by **Nanook** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 20:58

If you want to discuss the pros and cons of Steam, you should do so in the Off-Topic forum. Thanks.

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:01

there are steam features in x games too. this isn't too off topic.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:02

A quick google search will tell you anything you want to know about that dead-beaten horse of a debate.

I'll just say that almost no other game is like X3:TC, which allows steam-install as an 'optional' chance (or, heck, even installs from the disc in the tray instead of downloading bloody 8 Gb of data!)

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:04

so the only thing bad about steam is an 8GB download or similar to games?

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:09

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:19

Ok, is it so you can pirate the games? trying to share games with your friends who didn't buy them?

Really, Google isn't friendly and giving me an answer either.

silenced · Post by **silenced** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:24

Hmm ... something I remember about that topic: I win!

So far, Steam is nice, got it's drawbacks, where the biggest is the pricing, but that's not Steam's fault and you do not need to buy from Steam.

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:26

I'm really asking why people don't like steam.
I've just seen people say "oh i hope this isn't steam only"
i just want to know why.

i didn't know this was a trolling part of the forum.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:29

That's a bit of a weird accusation - baseless and to me, insulting.

fine, other reasons - forced auto-updating to latest version, ruins a number of mods; forced localisation for people in germany/france/etc; framework for artificially delaying release date regardless if you have your store-bought disc in post-box or not; common problems with off-line functionality all across the board, especially when I don't announce to the program that 'tomorrow my Internet will be broken'; can't really manage installation directories; forced to run steam just to play a game tied to it; has only 'pre-purchase' instead of pre-order like any normal storefront; randomly refuses to install games from disk and downloads them over the net; instead of 7Mb patch, it downloads all game files just for a small update (e.g. The Witcher 2), when all other versions patch normally; can't run on more than one computer at once, and has to manually re-ask for user validation (as opposed to just bloody logging in automatically as it should do) all the time; adds another layer of contrivances between me and the game (along with, for example, GFWL), is not compatible with normal patches (as an example, iirc Saint's Row 2 still isn't up to latest version in Steam.. or was it Fable 3? Or maybe GTA:SA... Don't really remember. Anyway, patches on steam are often delayed and/or missing compared to retail versions).

That enough? Just off the top of my head. And the worst part, Steam's not even the worst.

As for your statement in the opening post.. notice that people are mostly saying they hope it's not a Steam exclusive. X3:TC is cool because you have a choice - disc or Steam, and both are equally normal, similarly-capable choices (Ok, frankly steam version is a bit of a pain for modding, partial example - the last 'sunny place' miniupdate that screwed over the map file without much warning)... And that's not a problem. A problem is when you are forced into steam without the luxury of any other option.

Antilogic · Post by **Antilogic** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:30

Who let the OP in here?

I'll just say that almost no other game is like X3:TC, which allows steam-install as an 'optional' chance (or, heck, even installs from the disc in the tray instead of downloading bloody 8 Gb of data!)

Actually most retail games will install through steam from the disk now as it's an option provided directly with Steamworks.

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:38

ok ok. yes all good points.

thanks for an actual reply!

a few of those issues can be fixed in prefrences, yes the validation is annoying, not sure what you are saying about the "pre-purchase" thing... i like the pre-purchase and then pre-load games.

sorry about the accusation, that's the first thing Google turned up as a complaint- not being able to unregister a game and send it to a friend.

Oh and what does "OP" mean? Over powered?

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:42

OP = original post.

About pre-purchase.. well, see, at any game store (and even amazon) I can say (through web from or directly) "Okay, i'd like to preorder this game, as I will likely buy it - so you can ship it earlier, when you get it, and I'll pay." That means I can cancel preoders if circumstances change, or anything else happens.

With steam, you have pre-purchase. Which is "Hi, I'm interested in this game, and like to register my intent on getting it in the futur... Oh.. wait. You want me to pay now? Like, months before release? But what if I reconsider? What if I move to a country where it's region-locked out? No? I can't just preorder like on any other store, I must pay now and hope you or the game's publisher don't reconsider about selling it through your store?".

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:45

ohhh i see. yes.

Last week i actually pre-ordered Red Orchestra 2, played the beta, didn't like it, and then got a refund for the game before it came out.

Alee Enn · Post by **Alee Enn** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:51

In an attempt to answer the OP, let me provide 3 different methods of purchasing the same game.
1) Buy a boxed copy in the shops.
This is the traditional option. The game normally comes on one or more discs and tends to get worn out sooner or later to the point where you can no longer install the game.
Plus Points You can install the game as often as you like
Minus points Limited lifespan of the discs

2) Steam Download
This is the method in question. You pay online and download your game. No boxed version or discs needed.
Plus Points You can download it theoretically forever. No discs.
Minus Points Ok where do I begin? DRM, you have to be online to play it. Potential security risk with your payment details. What if Steam goes bankrupt, you either can't download your games or you can't play them. If you need to re-download your games you could be looking at a long download time.

3) Good Old Games Download
Similar to Steam but without the DRM hassle.
Plus Points Once you download the game, you "own" the game (their words) so you can keep a backup if you wish. No need to be online to play. No DRM. You can download it theoretically forever. No need for discs.
Minus Points Similar to Steam, bankruptcy, security, etc. Limited catalogue only older games.

My choice of preference? Good Old Games, I just wish their catalogue was bigger.

rrfarmer · Post by **rrfarmer** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 21:53

steam going bankrupt is a scary thought....

amtct · Post by **amtct** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 22:03

rrfarmer wrote:steam going bankrupt is a scary thought....

No ,it would be a great thing for those who like to have a manual and a DVD.Who cares about the steam users

Samuel Creshal · Post by **Samuel Creshal** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 22:07

Alien Tech Inc. wrote:DRM

Complaining about Steam's DRM is kinda silly considering about every game released today has some form of DRM even if it's not sold via Steam... Steam is actually one of the more benevolent forms of DRM. (Single online activation needed, no disk required, unlimited amount of subsequent or parallel installations, no online connection needed for playing).

you have to be online to play it

Nope. Offline mode.

. Potential security risk with your payment details

As every shop. It's just a bigger target for hackers thanks to their sheer size. But the same goes for Amazon...

What if Steam goes bankrupt, you either can't download your games or you can't play them

What if your disk breaks?
Solution: Backups. Work for Steam just as well as for disks. Actually better, since you don't have to worry about other forms of DRM which are likely to lock you out if you don't possess the original disk anymore of it it's so degraded the DRM can't recognize it anymore.

The real downside is a) you need to download it at least once anyway, and more often than not the Steam servers are full and the download is a PITA - in the time it took me to download TF2 and TC last week I could have ordered them per mail and b) not every game is or will be available through Steam (Valve has some restrictions for the developers). And technically c) it's worse than having no DRM, but in many many cases you don't have that luxury anymore (not every developer is as nice as Egosoft).

Antilogic · Post by **Antilogic** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 22:14

Alien Tech Inc. wrote:
2) Steam Download
This is the method in question. You pay online and download your game. No boxed version or discs needed.
Plus Points You can download it theoretically forever. No discs.
Minus Points Ok where do I begin? DRM, you have to be online to play it. Potential security risk with your payment details. What if Steam goes bankrupt, you either can't download your games or you can't play them. If you need to re-download your games you could be looking at a long download time.

DRM yes, but only to the level of account details. You don't need to be online to play unless the publisher has put in other DRM. You can take backups, and if Steam goes bankrupt you can pretty much say bye bye to the PC Gaming industry anyway

With your payment "details security risk", only to the extent of buying anything on the net.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Tue, 13. Sep 11, 22:19

@Sam - offline mode doesn't work reliably enough - at least not in my experience; For example, had an internet-blackout not more than a week ago and steam promptly showed some error message when I clicked 'Ok, start in offline mode' message. Thus, couldn't play anything through it.

parallel installs - Eh, not really. For one, Steam pretty much doesn't let you 'Install a copy on another folder on the same system for me', and you can't be logged in to the same account at more than one system at any given time (I got two laptops... But steam always shows a warning about being logged in on the other system - if I want to log in on this one, I must log out of the other one before-hand). Frankly, it's a lot more restrictive than a great many disc-games.

EDIT: another thing.. every game with Steamworks (i.e. the framework that makes it steam-exclusive) always includes bloody steam achievements. Seriously.. just as bad as playing on an xbox.. There you are, fully immersed in a game, when suddenly "plonk!!! ACHIVMUNT - Sneaked Past 200 guardz!!!!". Okay, not fully steam's fault, but frankly they are encouraging such game-design through the functionality they advertise (and, afaik, game being Steamworks requires it to have achievement-thing going).

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Steam

Steam