X-Rebirth No piloting Capital ships!!??

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Bernd
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Post by Bernd » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:06

Hi guys,

ok lets be a bit more precise about the capital ships then. Piloting a huge capital ship from the seat of the pilot is boring, therefore we left that out.

ON THE OTHER HAND: The player can own and can command ships and he can use them for a lot more different things than before.

Stations as well as large ships have a lot more ways to interact with them now and your own as well as other factions ships are much more interesting to play with.

Instead of sitting in the cockpit you will assign people to command ships for you.

Hope this clears things up...

-Bernd

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Post by A5PECT » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:18

God, I love Egosoft.
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Post by EmperorJon » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:21

It's as I thought. :)

Wait... did Bernd just douple post. :O
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Post by razorhead » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:22

EmperorJon wrote: Wait... did Bernd just douple post. :O
Just to make things even clearer :P

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Post by Catra » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:27

Is it too late for a petition to convince em to change that? Cause really cap ship flying was horrible because of the atrocious RPM. Its a massive step in the wrong direction to remove the players ability to fly one instead of simply upping the turn rate to something less frustrating.
Just saying it forward: I give everyone 2 posts to make good, in context posts(proper english, as always, is optional). After that I'm ignoring what you have to say in that thread that's directed to what we previously were talking about.

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Post by Sorkvild » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:36

I like this idea, therefore I would like to see improved version of tactical map and command including personnel assignment for the capital ship.

I mean something better than in the previous games, offering broader selection of options and views of our big ship.
Something to make us actually be in total control instead of pressing the button for two minutes and waiting for the capital to turn over ;)

Anyways, probably after the release our talented moders will do something about piloting the cap ships ;)
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Post by A5PECT » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:38

Catra wrote:Is it too late for a petition to convince em to change that? Cause really cap ship flying was horrible because of the atrocious RPM. Its a massive step in the wrong direction to remove the players ability to fly one instead of simply upping the turn rate to something less frustrating.
It wasn't just the turn rate that made capital ships not fun to fly.

You used the same exact controls as with a fighter, and they handled the same exact way. You press x to go faster. You use the mouse/joystick to steer. You press l to fire missiles.

Capital ships didn't feel like capital ships.

The captain of the USS Nimitz doesn't sit on the bridge with one hand on the steering wheel, the other on the throttle, and his foot on the missile launch button. Mainly because the Nimitz doesn't have a steering wheel, throttle bar, or just one button to launch missiles. They're all part of a complex series of mechanical and electronic subsystems that all add up to a gargantuan war machine. Naturally something that complicated isn't going to be operated by a single man, even with computer assistance.

The problem with X3 (and previous X-games) is that the engine was created for a game where you only flew a single ship: a fighter. When ES decided to give the player the ability to fly capital ships, all they did was transplant the flight mechanics of that original fighter into a larger ship, essentially making it another fighter. Just bigger.

Now that sounds cool in concept, and I'm sure a lot of X fans were excited when they first got their hands on it capital ships, but ten years down the line the novelty has worn off and the flaws in the implementation are apparent.

On a more personal note, why do you immediately assume changing the capital ship mechanics will make the game less fun? You have to acknowledge the possibility that the design choices Egosoft have made could actually make the game more fun.

It can go either way, but you're never going to know until it's better or worse until the game is actually out.
Last edited by A5PECT on Sat, 28. May 11, 17:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:44

Sorkvild wrote: I mean something better than in the previous games, ...
I'd prefer something different than in the previous games. Same old same old got old yazuras ago. It seems that there might be something (semi)novel. But until I see it, do I care?

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Post by Sorkvild » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:45

Just forgot to add. What about the M7 frigate ships ? I hope these ships will be able to control manually
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Post by pja » Sat, 28. May 11, 17:45

Well I enjoyed flying cap ships and will miss it.

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Post by Gold Dragon » Sat, 28. May 11, 18:06

"I enjoyed flying cap ships and will miss it."

I thought I did, too... until every time I started crashing into an NPC ship and destroying it in a TL. Got old and boring in a hurry, especially since it actually dropped rankings with 2 seperate races by 4-5 levels each.

Now, I only fly up to M6. Anything else can be commanded via auto-pilot, and prefferably OOS.


Still, what Bernd said (in double-posting) sounds interesting.


EDIT: Typos
Last edited by Gold Dragon on Sat, 28. May 11, 18:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 28. May 11, 18:10

Sorkvild wrote:Just forgot to add. What about the M7 frigate ships ? I hope these ships will be able to control manually
"M7" refers to shipclass system of present games, and "frigate" refers to naval ships. Naval ship associations always turn up heated and fruitless debates about the meaning of the names, and the class system hopefully is totally revamped in X-R. Thus, a more proper thing to guess is, how powerful will the most powerful pilotable ship be?

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Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sat, 28. May 11, 18:11

It might be too late but...

Heres two ideas..

#1 - Instead of viewing Cap ships from the bridge or whatever you might consider it as now in TC... You view it as 3rd person (as if there was a constant battle sattelite orbiting your ship sending back video telemetry a good 3/4km from the center point of the hull), with an interactive screen like "click on a ship to fire on just that ship" and "hold J and click in an direction to fire on all enemy ships in that direction", which makes the camera move into position to view said actions from an appropriate angle. You can also control "major systems" and view other diagnostics of the ship's status from various other controls.

Hope my idea was clear.. I quite liked it..

#2 - (Idea from other games) You dont constantly view the outside world, you view it from inside.. like from Mass Effect 2. (Going to stop here as i prefer idea #1 to this)
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Post by jiman » Sat, 28. May 11, 21:24

Bernd wrote:Hi guys,

ok lets be a bit more precise about the capital ships then. Piloting a huge capital ship from the seat of the pilot is boring, therefore we left that out.

ON THE OTHER HAND: The player can own and can command ships and he can use them for a lot more different things than before.

Stations as well as large ships have a lot more ways to interact with them now and your own as well as other factions ships are much more interesting to play with.

Instead of sitting in the cockpit you will assign people to command ships for you.

Hope this clears things up...

-Bernd
This sounds like the game will have better macro managment. THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE GAME WILL HAVE BETTER MACRO MANAGMENT!

*ahem*

I am very exicted to hear this... if what I am hearing is correct.

I would love to hear more indepth details of this... if its true. Better macro managment was going to be a deal breaker for me.

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Post by forloren » Sat, 28. May 11, 21:40

In Bernd I trust. :)

About 2 years ago Bernd did an interview, and in it was the following:
If you had to create “the ultimate game” what would it be?

Probably just the "ultimate" version of what we do already - the PERFECT space simulation game. You can go everywhere, be everybody, do everything and always have a lot of fun. Sounds simple enough to do, right? Well, we are on the job…stay tuned ;-)
On which project are you working now and what can you tell us about it?

See above. The ultimate space simulation game ;-)
I can't quite understand why there is so much negativity surrounding what X Rebirth might entail. Would the ultimate space sim lack capital class ships? No. But then again, the ultimate space sim wouldn't just have capital ships be nothing more than a larger single seated fighter. Also, the ultimate space sim wouldn't prevent you from going on board your own capital ships. Same thing with station docking, the ultimate space sim would have some means for people to get on and off stations, especially ones that you own, either in whole or part.

I do think Egosoft is playing with us a bit though, and I personally don't mind. They don't want to spoil the surprise by just coming out and confirming or denying our fears, because for the most part those fears probably aren't applicable to the mechanics of X Rebirth and they don't want to release the details of the mechanics yet.

I don't think X Rebirth is their final vision, it's a step towards it. The last thing they want to do is lay an egg, as that would most likely mean the end of Egosoft and their quest to create "the PERFECT space simulation game".

-Forloren

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