X-Rebirth No piloting Capital ships!!??

[perkint]

Yeah just read that now, which is good although slightly confusing as to exactly what it means in-game.

Very disappointed about no official translation of the full interview

Tim

[Xydonus]

'What can one do there? - Loads. How trade is done is even different. There's no landing to pick up wares and take them elsewhere. You now overfly the station and see what's on offer. Scanning stations and ships (legal or otherwise) will be important in the game. It was the case before that it didn't matter where you fired. Now the player can identify critical systems and target them.'

Note the part where he says 'There's no landing to pick up wares and take them elsewhere.'

If he did mean something else, he needs to be more literal to what he says.

[A5PECT]

Translation.

NDA.

That's two whole levels of potential misinterpretation. Right now we have very vague, very abstract ideas about how Rebirth will play.

On capital ships, I'm only willing to qualify Bernd's statements as far as "player control of capital ships has been altered." It may have been changed slightly, or dramatically, or removed completely. We don't know. That leaves a whole lot up to the imagination; I don't see why people immediately take that as "no more capital ships" and give up on the whole game.

[perkint]

'Note the part where he says 'There's no landing to pick up wares and take them elsewhere.'

If he did mean something else, he needs to be more literal to what he says.

That's my point - he doesn't say:
"There's no landing"
He says:
"There's no landing to pick up wares".

An official translation would be very nice to help clarify such points

Or even an official hint as to when more info will be released - beyond just "June" which potentially represents a period of time covering 14% of the time left before release!

OK, I've based that on release at the start of Q4 which isn't likely, but my point still stands - give us a clue!!!

Tim

[Bernd]

Hi guys,

ok lets be a bit more precise about the capital ships then. Piloting a huge capital ship from the seat of the pilot is boring, therefore we left that out.

ON THE OTHER HAND: The player can own and can command ships and he can use them for a lot more different things than before.

Stations as well as large ships have a lot more ways to interact with them now and your own as well as other factions ships are much more interesting to play with.

Instead of sitting in the cockpit you will assign people to command ships for you.

Hope this clears things up...

-Bernd

[Bernd]

Hi guys,

ok lets be a bit more precise about the capital ships then. Piloting a huge capital ship from the seat of the pilot is boring, therefore we left that out.

ON THE OTHER HAND: The player can own and can command ships and he can use them for a lot more different things than before.

Stations as well as large ships have a lot more ways to interact with them now and your own as well as other factions ships are much more interesting to play with.

Instead of sitting in the cockpit you will assign people to command ships for you.

Hope this clears things up...

-Bernd

[A5PECT]

God, I love Egosoft.

[EmperorJon]

It's as I thought.

Wait... did Bernd just douple post.

[razorhead]

Wait... did Bernd just douple post.

Just to make things even clearer

[Catra]

Is it too late for a petition to convince em to change that? Cause really cap ship flying was horrible because of the atrocious RPM. Its a massive step in the wrong direction to remove the players ability to fly one instead of simply upping the turn rate to something less frustrating.

[Sorkvild]

I like this idea, therefore I would like to see improved version of tactical map and command including personnel assignment for the capital ship.

I mean something better than in the previous games, offering broader selection of options and views of our big ship.
Something to make us actually be in total control instead of pressing the button for two minutes and waiting for the capital to turn over

Anyways, probably after the release our talented moders will do something about piloting the cap ships

[A5PECT]

Is it too late for a petition to convince em to change that? Cause really cap ship flying was horrible because of the atrocious RPM. Its a massive step in the wrong direction to remove the players ability to fly one instead of simply upping the turn rate to something less frustrating.

It wasn't just the turn rate that made capital ships not fun to fly.

You used the same exact controls as with a fighter, and they handled the same exact way. You press x to go faster. You use the mouse/joystick to steer. You press l to fire missiles.

Capital ships didn't feel like capital ships.

The captain of the USS Nimitz doesn't sit on the bridge with one hand on the steering wheel, the other on the throttle, and his foot on the missile launch button. Mainly because the Nimitz doesn't have a steering wheel, throttle bar, or just one button to launch missiles. They're all part of a complex series of mechanical and electronic subsystems that all add up to a gargantuan war machine. Naturally something that complicated isn't going to be operated by a single man, even with computer assistance.

The problem with X3 (and previous X-games) is that the engine was created for a game where you only flew a single ship: a fighter. When ES decided to give the player the ability to fly capital ships, all they did was transplant the flight mechanics of that original fighter into a larger ship, essentially making it another fighter. Just bigger.

Now that sounds cool in concept, and I'm sure a lot of X fans were excited when they first got their hands on it capital ships, but ten years down the line the novelty has worn off and the flaws in the implementation are apparent.

On a more personal note, why do you immediately assume changing the capital ship mechanics will make the game less fun? You have to acknowledge the possibility that the design choices Egosoft have made could actually make the game more fun.

It can go either way, but you're never going to know until it's better or worse until the game is actually out.

[jlehtone]

I mean something better than in the previous games, ...

I'd prefer something different than in the previous games. Same old same old got old yazuras ago. It seems that there might be something (semi)novel. But until I see it, do I care?

[Sorkvild]

Just forgot to add. What about the M7 frigate ships ? I hope these ships will be able to control manually

[pja]

Well I enjoyed flying cap ships and will miss it.

[Gold Dragon]

"I enjoyed flying cap ships and will miss it."

I thought I did, too... until every time I started crashing into an NPC ship and destroying it in a TL. Got old and boring in a hurry, especially since it actually dropped rankings with 2 seperate races by 4-5 levels each.

Now, I only fly up to M6. Anything else can be commanded via auto-pilot, and prefferably OOS.


Still, what Bernd said (in double-posting) sounds interesting.


EDIT: Typos

[jlehtone]

Just forgot to add. What about the M7 frigate ships ? I hope these ships will be able to control manually

"M7" refers to shipclass system of present games, and "frigate" refers to naval ships. Naval ship associations always turn up heated and fruitless debates about the meaning of the names, and the class system hopefully is totally revamped in X-R. Thus, a more proper thing to guess is, how powerful will the most powerful pilotable ship be?

[Stars_InTheirEyes]

It might be too late but...

Heres two ideas..

#1 - Instead of viewing Cap ships from the bridge or whatever you might consider it as now in TC... You view it as 3rd person (as if there was a constant battle sattelite orbiting your ship sending back video telemetry a good 3/4km from the center point of the hull), with an interactive screen like "click on a ship to fire on just that ship" and "hold J and click in an direction to fire on all enemy ships in that direction", which makes the camera move into position to view said actions from an appropriate angle. You can also control "major systems" and view other diagnostics of the ship's status from various other controls.

Hope my idea was clear.. I quite liked it..

#2 - (Idea from other games) You dont constantly view the outside world, you view it from inside.. like from Mass Effect 2. (Going to stop here as i prefer idea #1 to this)

[jiman]

Hi guys,

ok lets be a bit more precise about the capital ships then. Piloting a huge capital ship from the seat of the pilot is boring, therefore we left that out.

ON THE OTHER HAND: The player can own and can command ships and he can use them for a lot more different things than before.

Stations as well as large ships have a lot more ways to interact with them now and your own as well as other factions ships are much more interesting to play with.

Instead of sitting in the cockpit you will assign people to command ships for you.

Hope this clears things up...

-Bernd

This sounds like the game will have better macro managment. THIS SOUNDS LIKE THE GAME WILL HAVE BETTER MACRO MANAGMENT!

*ahem*

I am very exicted to hear this... if what I am hearing is correct.

I would love to hear more indepth details of this... if its true. Better macro managment was going to be a deal breaker for me.

[forloren]

In Bernd I trust.

About 2 years ago Bernd did an interview, and in it was the following:

If you had to create “the ultimate game” what would it be?

Probably just the "ultimate" version of what we do already - the PERFECT space simulation game. You can go everywhere, be everybody, do everything and always have a lot of fun. Sounds simple enough to do, right? Well, we are on the job…stay tuned

On which project are you working now and what can you tell us about it?

See above. The ultimate space simulation game

I can't quite understand why there is so much negativity surrounding what X Rebirth might entail. Would the ultimate space sim lack capital class ships? No. But then again, the ultimate space sim wouldn't just have capital ships be nothing more than a larger single seated fighter. Also, the ultimate space sim wouldn't prevent you from going on board your own capital ships. Same thing with station docking, the ultimate space sim would have some means for people to get on and off stations, especially ones that you own, either in whole or part.

I do think Egosoft is playing with us a bit though, and I personally don't mind. They don't want to spoil the surprise by just coming out and confirming or denying our fears, because for the most part those fears probably aren't applicable to the mechanics of X Rebirth and they don't want to release the details of the mechanics yet.

I don't think X Rebirth is their final vision, it's a step towards it. The last thing they want to do is lay an egg, as that would most likely mean the end of Egosoft and their quest to create "the PERFECT space simulation game".

-Forloren