Most succesful closed-loop complex?

[dragondream]

Microchips and 1Mj shields are the two things the x universe never seems to have enough of. Microchips because you need them for most darn weapons, and 1MJ shields... well because my chunky M1's are blowing up so many TS ships you can never get enough ...

[longinus0000]

Everyone says 1MJ shields sells great, but what if you want to setup some huge, like 50 x 1MJ shields. While that sell or tank?
I built 40 x Silkworm complex and ferry them to EQ via M3/M4 since I read that missles had the most profit margin.
I just want to know when someone says that their foodplex sells well, how big is it.

[Esgaro]

A 50 strong 1 MJ complex will sell fine. I have a 40, and it has no problems selling out. Occasionally you will sit without a sale for a cycle or so, and then some freighter will come in with a giant order you never have a chance of being able to fill.

[mrbadger]

Everyone says 1MJ shields sells great, but what if you want to setup some huge, like 50 x 1MJ shields. While that sell or tank?

It would sell, but it's a bad idea. Remember that trade is about more than money, it's about race and trade reputation. Five complexes with five to ten 1mj sheild fabs each, spread around the map and selling to each of the races is a much better plan.

I say five to ten, rather than just ten because ten 1mj sheild fabs will cost a lot to build, given all the support fabs you will need. Five is a good number in my humble opinion.

[Choublanc]

Did you check Tractor Beams? iirc, those were the most profitable in X3R (although not the best ROI).

Yeah I did, they were up there but not the best plus cost more to build, dragonflys also had the best roi paying themselves off in under 12 hours (not including the ecell loop costs). When I get home tonight I can post the full list if you want

On the top of it, in X3R a Tractor Beam fab required no mineral, only food and energy (a bug probably). That was nice. A TB Fab still returns the second revenue in TC after a Shadow missiles one when sold in bulk at minimum price (196k credit per hour), but it cost 14 millions. Not really a bargain.

Dragonfly fabs are OK only if you have a handful of them, because the product needs a lot of storage space (200 cargospace per hour/per fab). IMHO the 3 important criteria when choosing missiles to make money are the price of the factory, the revenue when the product is sold in bulk at minimum price, and, crucial if you hate micromanagement, the needed cargo to store the products.

That’s why Mosquito/Firefly/Aurora Fabs must be avoided: they require a huge cargospace per hour (900 !, 600, 270) and return mediocre money.
2 missile fabs only match all the 3 criteria : Tomahawk and Phantom
188k/hour at min price, cheap fab, and respectively the outstanding 18 and 9 cargo space requirement per fab per hour.
If the price of the fab isn’t an issue, Typhoon/Firestorm/Cyclone are good too.

It would sell, but it's a bad idea. Remember that trade is about more than money, it's about race and trade reputation. Five complexes with five to ten 1mj sheild fabs each, spread around the map and selling to each of the races is a much better plan.

iirc you get trade rank increase only if you sell over average price (in X3R for sure and I guess also in TC, can anyone confirm?). And 1mj seem to sell very well only if the price is set average-1. So no trade “bonus”.

[Sesk]

I did the math, and Space Weed sells for 4,000/min (avg price) and Space Fuel sells for 4,700/min. Did I do my math wrong?

And, yes, I am bringing up illegal goods, like the post above mentioned, they are primary goods that only require a direct chain from enery cells -> food -> goods.

I also have done the math, Chip plants bring in less than space weed that bring in less (30k less per hour) than space fuel.

From what I heard, Chips sell pretty quick, and from what I experienced, Space Fuel/Weed sells pretty quick too (X3R/X3TC).

134,760/Hour from Chips
273,000/Hour from Space Fuel
242,667/Hour from Space Weed

Why am I getting different data? Sure I do want to make other things than illegal goods, but they seem to fetch to most and since I'm producing in my own sector I would have no problem with the military. Only problem would be the demand that would shift depending on where I am, but AFAIK Weed/Fuel sells as well everywhere since every one demands some, right?

[mrbadger]

iirc in you get trade rank increase only if you sell over average price (in X3R for sure and I guess also in TC, can anyone confirm?). And 1mj seem to sell very well only if the price is set average-1. So no trade “bonus”.

You only get trade rank increases if you own the ships doing the selling, which makes sense really. If you rely on npc ships, all you get is race rep.

[Choublanc]

134,760/Hour from Chips
273,000/Hour from Space Fuel
242,667/Hour from Space Weed

Why am I getting different data? Sure I do want to make other things than illegal goods, but they seem to fetch to most and since I'm producing in my own sector I would have no problem with the military. Only problem would be the demand that would shift depending on where I am, but AFAIK Weed/Fuel sells as well everywhere since every one demands some, right?

One element is missing in your math: you are using L size booze/weed fabs. Tech fab are “S” (small) size. A tech fab “S” must be compared to a “M” food fab, both are using 3600 energy cells/hour to produce something in a self-sustaining complex (M-wheat + M-Fuel, or S-missile + S-bogas + S-bofu + S-ore).
With 3600 EC, your revenue when producing Space fuel isn’t 273k/hour, but 2.5x less = 109k. At average price, you get 202k for most missile fabs. Almost twice as much.

You only get trade rank increases if you own the ships doing the selling, which makes sense really. If you rely on npc ships, all you get is race rep.

Are you sure of that? I remember X3R threads were the conclusion was that trade rank increase only if you sell at more than average, or buy at less than avg. Regardless if you are using your ship or if npc stop at your factory.

[dragondream]

Well, from reading this thread that got 25 replies in one day , I think most of you guys would go for the Spacefuel or Spaceweed complex. What I want to know is where do you guys set up these illegal complexes without getting constantly attacked by Pirates, Kha'ak, Xenon, or the Race Military ...

EDIT: Although come to think of it, one of you suggested building it in a Terran Sector which I might try out, since there are no illegal goods there.

[LordForrester]

In X3R I took over the central Pirate sectors and built there. Building in Bala Gi's Joy is a good place cause the gates are close together.

Drop some Strong Patrols in Split Fire, Brennan's and Farnham's Legend. You now have 5 sectors that you can build anything in.

I moved all the way over to Hatikvah's Faith. I also had an M2 set to guard the gate to sector 101. So I have 9 safe sectors that I can do anything I want to with.


You get a LOT of traffic in this area.

[Ulan Dhor]

Although come to think of it, one of you suggested building it in a Terran Sector which I might try out, since there are no illegal goods there.

I have one mixed complex in Heretic's End, which sells very well, especially Spaceweed. Only Spacefuel sometimes stalls for a while. I have another one in Elysium of Light, which also runs nicely, but you have to provide energy yourself. The complexes in Bala Gi's Joy and Olmancketslat's Treaty have been running now for a long time without problems, except a single pirate attack (an Elite ).

But you can get these pirate attacks everywhere (also in Argon core sectors), and the Heretic's End complex has had a pirate base right next to it for ages. The Terran military just fly around my complex and the pirate base and otherwise ignore both .

[yingjai]

could you gain race rank for terrans by building a chips or 1mj shields complex in heretics end?

[dragondream]

could you gain race rank for terrans by building a chips or 1mj shields complex in heretics end?

Not for building them, but if Terran NPC's trade with them yes...

[Kriszo]

Who uses up all those 1MJ shields and microchips you sell in near infinite quantities?

[dragondream]

Victims of our piracy acts?

Spoiler

Show

Those poor little Boron traders will never have enough shields

[Gswine]

I find that along with 1 mj shields, 5 mj will sell almost as well, also Low-yield sidearms and disintergrater rifles.

Microchips do sell well but be very careful when planning your silicon production. I have a complex which has 3 xxl powerplants and the crystal fabs to power them, producing plenty of silicon to spare and then added 3 chip plants. Now I've ran clear out of silicon and am setting up mobile miners to compensate.

Make sure the yeild you use starts around 26 and grab anything larger. 10-17 yeild just will not cut it even if you have plenty of them.

[Nanook]

...
Make sure the yeild you use starts around 26 and grab anything larger. 10-17 yeild just will not cut it even if you have plenty of them.

Production of ore/ecell is a constant, no matter the asteroid's yield. So Adding a 10-yield to a 16-yield is the same as having a 26-yield. The only difference is the fact that you need to buy two mines plus an additional CCK. Oh, and you get more ore and energy storage with the combo than the single.

[jlehtone]

10-17 yeild just will not cut it even if you have plenty of them.

Tell that to self-sufficient complex, whose highest yield is 0.

[Gswine]

Thats fine and dandy if you keep your product production needs in line with your resource collection.

Microchips do sell well but be very careful when planning your silicon production. I have a complex which has 3 xxl powerplants and the crystal fabs to power them, producing plenty of silicon to spare and then added 3 chip plants. Now I've ran clear out of silicon and am setting up mobile miners to compensate.

As soon as you out strip resource collection with production needs you will have to look else where for resources, destroying the closed loop.

Which is what I have done.

Production of ore/ecell is a constant, no matter the asteroid's yield. So Adding a 10-yield to a 16-yield is the same as having a 26-yield. The only difference is the fact that you need to buy two mines plus an additional CCK. Oh, and you get more ore and energy storage with the combo than the single.

That may be true but the units per mine goes up with higher yeilds. lesser gain 5 units, middiling 10 and so on. So starting with a higher yeild gains you more units per production cycle.

Though of course I agree that adding mines to lesser yeild roids give you extra storage space and can be very useful.

[jlehtone]

Thats fine and dandy if you keep your product production needs in line with your resource collection.

"Self-sufficient complex", by definition, does not require additional input of resources to keep it running.

What you did, was converting a self-sufficient complex (or closed loop) into a unit that is not self-sufficient. That is unrelated to the (rather trivial math of) planning and building self-sufficient loops. Self-sufficiency is integral part of the topic of this thread.

You could as well take a yield 72 Silicon Mine and then add so many Silicon consumers that the place runs short in no time. Would that make the yield 72 "unsuitable"?

You did wrote that low yield Mines "do not cut it" even if there is plenty of them. I did wrote that even the lowest possible yield (0) Mines are sufficient for building a self-sufficient complex. Technically they do "cut it", if necessary. But it is naturally easier, if there are better Asteroids available.

That may be true but the units per mine goes up with higher yeilds.

Sort of. The "units per cycle" is a technicality related to the cycle time. What really does increase with the increase of yield is the number of units of mineral produced per hour. That is a much easier way to see the difference.