X3R CLS Mk1 Question

[xxbluedragonxx]

In X3R I have not used CLS before so excuse me if this seems obvious, but here is my scenario

1 x Silicon Mine - trade with other race NO
1 x Player HQ - trade with other race NO

Now what I want to do is quite simple:

TAKE e-cells from HQ - deliver to Silicon Mine
TAKE silicon from mine - deliver to HQ


Should this work? I just want the ship to shuttle back and forward swapping silicon and e-cells as necessary. How would I set this up....? I have a TS but it has no homebase yet and no commands set up. Thanks!

[Carlo the Curious]

Not with CLS1 (that will only handle one-way transfers), but I think it's doable with CLS2.

Check the threads linked from the bonus pack thread, I imagine it's come up before.

[xxbluedragonxx]

CLS2 seems to be the one I need, I was pulling contortions trying to get CLS1 working but it seems to be one way like you say!

[jlehtone]

CLS1 is definitely one-way.

Just use 24 to 1 ratio with CLS2, for it does not "run only on demand". Furthermore, CLS2 can happily fill your HQ with Silicon, if the Mine produces quickly enough.

[xxbluedragonxx]

Hmm that's what I feared, CLS2 could fill up the HQ

I am trying to keep to a minimum number of ships for the HQ and the mine. I have one CAG for the HQ (ship building wares) so it buys only.

I have one ship for the mine.

The HQ has large amounts of energy which I was thinking could be sent to the mine as needed - or keep the mine topped up.


If I set the mine silicon price to minimum and trade with others off, would this "encourage" the HQ CAG to buy silicon from this mine..?

If so, perhaps I could do that and then have CLS1 from HQ to mine supplying e-cells - this setup would then hopefully solve my problem?

[jlehtone]

If I set the mine silicon price to minimum and trade with others off, would this "encourage" the HQ CAG to buy silicon from this mine..?

If so, perhaps I could do that and then have CLS1 from HQ to mine supplying e-cells - this setup would then hopefully solve my problem?

Sort of. CAG will find the Mine if no "better offer" is in sight.

Set the ECell price for CLS1 so that the Mine does not accumulate credits. Wafer price / 24.

[Nanook]

Hmm that's what I feared, CLS2 could fill up the HQ ...

You can set limits on every item in the HQ that both CAG and CLS will obey. But be warned if you use UT's because they will NOT obey the limits.

[jlehtone]

CAG and CLS1 obey. CLS Mk2 (aka External Logistics) does not.

[Nanook]

Really? I thought they did. I stand corrected.

[mystikmind2005]

I don't think you need to send the silicone from your mine to the HQ. It is better if your mine can sell at a good price and your HQ can buy at a much cheaper price elsewhere.

The more mines with CAG's selling at top dollar you can set up, then the less sales opportunities will be around for NPC mines.... then they will get full more frequently so your fabs can grab their ore at rock bottom prices!
This tactic rings true for most other products as well!

Yea, I think i have got this X3 economy figured out now.... the golden rule is this;
Out sell the NPC, then buy cheap from the NPC, you cannot loose!

As for the HQ, i havn't figured out a good way of keeping up its resources yet? I have five TS parked there which i order goods with every so often, seems to work ok, but i would like a better way?

[Nanook]

...
As for the HQ, i havn't figured out a good way of keeping up its resources yet? I have five TS parked there which i order goods with every so often, seems to work ok, but i would like a better way?

Back when I was playing Reunion, my favorite way was to scrap most of the ships I captured. That way, you get the right proportion of resources to use to build new ships.

[Chealec]

You can, of course, just use 2 CLS1 freighters... 1 taking ore the other ECells. CLS1 will obey Station manager commands and everything works just peachy.

With my PHQ one of the things I did was use it as a distribution centre. I had ships that delivered ECells, Silicon and Ore from a nearby asteroid rich sector to my PHQ and then other ships based at the PHQ that distributed it from there to my various weapons factories in the sector.

One hint, you need your CLS pilots to be at a certain rank to use the PHQ (it sort of counts as an EQ dock) but also at higher ranks they can use jumpdrives which is just brilliant... and they cheat. They can jump to AdvSats.

So if you're jumping goods in from another sector plonk an AdvSat near their homebase and another near the PHQ and they'll just jump between the satellites and may well have to do LESS travelling than they would between stations in the same sector

CLS pilots will also restock on ECells from their homebase - even if they're a resource.

[mystikmind2005]

...
As for the HQ, i havn't figured out a good way of keeping up its resources yet? I have five TS parked there which i order goods with every so often, seems to work ok, but i would like a better way?

Back when I was playing Reunion, my favorite way was to scrap most of the ships I captured. That way, you get the right proportion of resources to use to build new ships.

Never considered scrapping ships? I would assume you get more benefit than selling, since damage no longer counts rite??

If i have ships to sell tho, i want to fill their cargo bay with Nividium first.... but fighter cargo bays are small/cannot carry Nividium, so perhaps not worth it?

[eladan]

Never considered scrapping ships? I would assume you get more benefit than selling, since damage no longer counts rite??

Wrong, sorry.

The resources returned by scrapping are proportional to the hull percentage of the ship.

[mystikmind2005]

Never considered scrapping ships? I would assume you get more benefit than selling, since damage no longer counts rite??

Wrong, sorry.

The resources returned by scrapping are proportional to the hull percentage of the ship.

Doh!

[xxbluedragonxx]

Well the CAG idea tanked Even though my mine was selling at rock bottom price, the HQ CAG still went to another mine in the same sector that just happened to be full (and hence had same low price, but more stock)

I may have to resort to the two CLS1

I was hoping there would be some easy solution. The reason I don't want to sell/buy is because I am planning to develop the mine into a complex eventually, so wanted to sort some system out where excess HQ supplies can be fed into the (eventual) complex and vice versa.

[Chealec]

A couple of CLS1s really is your best bet for this kind of thing - it's what the script was designed for. I've had complexes spread all over the universe supplied by CLS1 freighters before now.

Yeah, it is a little disappointing that you can't tell them to stock up one one cargo for the journey out and another on the way back... but it's not like freighters are particularly expensive.

Since I'm too lazy to haul asteroids together to make complexes I generally homebase a Caiman hauler (CLS1) at each mine to supply crystal fabs with silicon or weapons fabs with ore that way.

Get enough SPPs in a complex and it's quite possible to require 4 or more Dolphin SFs shipping ECells to your factories... it's a bit of work and initial outlay but it's certainly worth it in the long run

[jlehtone]

Since I'm too lazy to haul asteroids together to make complexes I generally homebase a Caiman hauler (CLS1) at each mine to supply crystal fabs with silicon or weapons fabs with ore that way.

Freight Pilot CLS1 can haul from 10 suppliers. So one CLS1 could haul Wafers from 10 Mines. I have one ship hauling aPBE from 9 Complexes into couple TL. And one CLS1 hauling Crystals from a Complex to over dozen SPPs and Complexes.


@xx: Until that Mine is part of complex, your primary need is to get Wafers to the HQ, isn't it? Thus, for now it is not so important who provides the Wafers as long as the HQ gets them. And that does happen with the HQ CAG.

[Chealec]

Freight Pilot CLS1 can haul from 10 suppliers. So one CLS1 could haul Wafers from 10 Mines.

This is true... but you sort of reach a supply/demand position where if you've only 1 TS hauling from 10 stations the target complex (once it's big enough) won't ever have enough ore/silicon.

I found it's not really worth having 1 TS hauling from more than 3 mines.

I have one ship hauling aPBE from 9 Complexes into couple TL.

Yeah, but the production rate on aPBEs is somewhat lower than ore and since it's an "end product" there's nothing dependant on the supply ... it depends entirely on what you're shipping and to where.

Silicon is quite bulky so you need quite a few ships hauling it in if you're supplying 40+ crystal fabs and 20 or so "tech" factories... which is the sort of situation where the 1 ship to 3 mines ratio is roughly optimal (in my experience).

[jlehtone]

Silicon is quite bulky so you need quite a few ships hauling it in if you're supplying 40+ crystal fabs and 20 or so "tech" factories... which is the sort of situation where the 1 ship to 3 mines ratio is roughly optimal (in my experience).

True. One Crystal Fab M consumes 75 Wafers per hour. 40 of them consume 3000 Wafers per hour.

500 Wafers need 9000 cargo units. One large SF. If that freighter could make one trip in 10 minutes, it would be barely sufficient. (I've logged transactions of ECell selling Caiman Hauler. It was jumping, and made about 5-6 trips per hour. But H is bit faster than SF.) But Mines are spread out and far from jump points. Thus, fetching from 10 locations is clearly pushing it, even if the Complex hub is next to jump point.

Then again, a yield 26 Silicon L makes about 200 Wafers per hour. SF does not have to fetch from it more frequently than every two hours. Even the highest yields are under 550 Wafers per hour. Thus, more than three Mines per freighter seems quite feasible.