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[MOD] BMTC Strong Capital Ships / Weapon Balance : v2 : Nov.12.2008
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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 17:50    Post subject: [MOD] BMTC Strong Capital Ships / Weapon Balance : v2 : Nov.12.2008 Reply with quote Print

Bullet Mod "Terran Conflict" version 2

Updated Nov 12 2008

This mod aims to make the game more fun by making capital ship combat slower. This isn't as necessary as it was in X3, but I feel gameplay still benefits from a slight reduction in pace. Hull is also a more important statistic; barring the use of missiles, a capital ships hull should now last roughly as long as its shielding. A side effect of this is that capital ship combat becomes more challenging as the AI can afford to take much more hull damage than a player can. Smile

I also look at general weapons balance and make changes I believe are warranted.

BMTC cannot harm your savegame. You can enable it and disable it at any time. BMTC is compatible with most modifications, though it is unlikely to be compatible with any total conversions.

Version 1 changelog:
* Major capital ship weapons hull damage reduced by 70%
* Major capital ship weapons ROF reduced by 30%
* Plasma Burst Generator direct damage reduced by 50% (burn damage unchanged)
* M/AM hull damage reduced by 40%
* B/G Kyon Emitter hull damage reduced
* All dumbfires have received dramatic increases in speed and acceleration.
* Stock game bug affecting the Ghoul missile fixed.

Version 2 changelog:
* Flak weapons now use a visible bullet.
* Hammer torpedoes are now swarm. Fire rate, damage and maneuverability reduced.
* Khaak missile damage dramatically increased.
* Lifetime reduced for many missile weapons.
* Dumbfire/synaptic missile damage greatly improved. Blast radius tweaks.
* Pulse Beam Emitter speed cut by 50% so you can actually see it.

========

Download:

SPK: http://www.deadlyshoe.com/x3/SPKv2.zip

Extract the ZIP file anywhere, then install the SPK file using Cycrow's Plugin Manager. You can then select "BMTCv2" using the "Select Mod Package" button on the game launcher.

Alternative installation: http://www.deadlyshoe.com/x3/BMTCv2.zip

Extract this file to your Terran Conflict game directory. Then open the directory. You should see a number of files that simply have numbers for names, like "01.cat". Look for the highest number then rename the BMTC files so they are one number higher. In a stock version of 1.2.1 the highest number will be "05.cat" and "05.dat", so you would rename "BMTCv2.cat" to "06.cat" and "BMTCv2.dat" to "06.dat". This is called the "False Patch" method, and has the advantage of being able to install multiple modifications at a time.

***
Archive:
If you desire, you can get version 1 here.



Last edited by Sandalpocalypse on Thu, 13. Nov 08, 12:10; edited 8 times in total
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46852





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 18:29    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I'm interested to hear how does 50% reduction to PBG damage turn out? How fast does an M3 go down now with that reduction?

Also a reminder for Sandalapocalypse: remember to test Out of Sector weapon balance! Smile

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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 18:34    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I did a few OOS scrimmages to check for erroneous behavior. I didn't notice anything especially wacky, but I didn't do any explicit before/after tests.

50% reduction to the PBG might actually be too much in my opinion, I'm fiddling with numbers changes to it now. It is still an effective weapon though.

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Arraamis





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 21:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Firstly ... thanks for your efforts.

May I ask what procedure you're using to work with the TC files. I keep getting what looks like encrypted data strings.

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mpcribeiro





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 21:45    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

hey Sandalpocalypse

Its a good point!

on TC and like was on XTM killing/get killed is far too fast to a point of no joy.

I would like to add...

rather than, less damage/power generator... how about slowing down Capital rate of fire? more time between shots instead of low power which make some turrets not to fire.

This way would be hard for a capital to hit a "fly" with several blasts on 1st go

of course ... that rate slowdown meant only for L and LX weapons.


Cheers

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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Tue, 28. Oct 08, 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Arraamis,

No problem Smile

I got the PCKs out of the CATs using Mod Manager, then extracted the PCKs with WinRAR. I then renamed the result files to .TXT. I imported the files into Excel to make it easier to experiment with numbers, but I made all the changes to the text files manually. I determined what fields I needed based on my background knowledge from X3R modding and by comparing the text sheet to ingame data.

mpcribeiro,

I did slow down the rate of fire. Energy consumption still may be an issue for destroying hulls, but since you can do it with missiles I don't think it's a big deal.

I have not actually looked at energy consumption balance yet; I will probably wait for the next major Terran Conflict patch to do so.

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BlackRain
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Joined: 15 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed, 29. Oct 08, 04:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Where did you get the modmanager I cant find it anywhere.

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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Wed, 29. Oct 08, 05:12    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Doubleshadows website appears to be down at the moment, but here's the forum thread.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1299649

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Arraamis





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PostPosted: Wed, 29. Oct 08, 06:49    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Thanks Sandalpocalypse, for putting me on the right track.

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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Wed, 29. Oct 08, 15:39    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Arraamis,

FYI, the new X3 editor has just been posted. You still need to extract the files to .txt, but you can open them in this program rather than staring at the Wall o' Numbers

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220438

***

I accidentally included the mod that removes the mission icons from stations in the main view. Sorry guys, don't know how I remembered to take out my Tships but forgot that.. Shocked

Fixed file posted.

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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Nov 08, 07:30    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Version 2 posted. See first post for updated file.

Quote:

Version 2 changelog:
* Flak weapons now use a visible bullet.
* Hammer torpedoes are now swarm. Fire rate, damage and maneuverability reduced.
* Khaak missile damage dramatically increased.
* Lifetime reduced for many missile weapons.
* Dumbfire/synaptic missile damage greatly improved. Blast radius tweaks.
* Pulse Beam Emitter speed cut by 50% so you can actually see it.



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Malakie





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Nov 08, 08:55    Post subject: Re: [MOD] BMTC Strong Capital Ships / Weapon Balance : v2 : Nov.12.2008 Reply with quote Print

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
Bullet Mod "Terran Conflict" version 2

Updated Nov 12 2008

This mod aims to make the game more fun by making capital ship combat slower. This isn't as necessary as it was in X3, but I feel gameplay still benefits from a slight reduction in pace. Hull is also a more important statistic; barring the use of missiles, a capital ships hull should now last roughly as long as its shielding. A side effect of this is that capital ship combat becomes more challenging as the AI can afford to take much more hull damage than a player can. Smile

I also look at general weapons balance and make changes I believe are warranted.

BMTC cannot harm your savegame. You can enable it and disable it at any time. BMTC is compatible with most modifications, though it is unlikely to be compatible with any total conversions.

Version 1 changelog:
* Major capital ship weapons hull damage reduced by 70%
* Major capital ship weapons ROF reduced by 30%
* Plasma Burst Generator direct damage reduced by 50% (burn damage unchanged)
* M/AM hull damage reduced by 40%
* B/G Kyon Emitter hull damage reduced
* All dumbfires have received dramatic increases in speed and acceleration.
* Stock game bug affecting the Ghoul missile fixed.

Version 2 changelog:
* Flak weapons now use a visible bullet.
* Hammer torpedoes are now swarm. Fire rate, damage and maneuverability reduced.
* Khaak missile damage dramatically increased.
* Lifetime reduced for many missile weapons.
* Dumbfire/synaptic missile damage greatly improved. Blast radius tweaks.
* Pulse Beam Emitter speed cut by 50% so you can actually see it.

========

Download:

SPK: http://www.deadlyshoe.com/x3/SPKv2.zip

Extract the ZIP file anywhere, then install the SPK file using Cycrow's Plugin Manager. You can then select "BMTCv2" using the "Select Mod Package" button on the game launcher.

Alternative installation: http://www.deadlyshoe.com/x3/bmtcv2.zip

Extract this file to your Terran Conflict game directory. Then open the directory. You should see a number of files that simply have numbers for names, like "01.cat". Look for the highest number then rename the BMTC files so they are one number higher. In a stock version of 1.2.1 the highest number will be "05.cat" and "05.dat", so you would rename "BMTCv2.cat" to "06.cat" and "BMTCv2.dat" to "06.dat". This is called the "False Patch" method, and has the advantage of being able to install multiple modifications at a time.





Hi I like your mod but I do not like some changes you made in the V2....

You reduced the life span of missiles. I think the lifespan is already to short.... I have tried many times to fire at a range of 20-25km to try and sneak a first strike missile in but MOST of the missiles self-destruct before they get there... I think the reducing that is making it worse and we will need to be MUCH closer to our targets... And this is a real problem if you are under fire because some missiles pack a huge punch.. and if you (the missile) gets hit as you launch you are toast.... Now I at least am able to stand off somewhat with the bigger missiles and torps so they do not obliterate me if detonated to soon.

The other thing I would like to see if for some of the missiles to be fixed in terms of their speeds. In real life I know of NO aircraft that can outfly a missile in speed or turning.. If they could, the missile, especially heat seeking, would fly up the tailpipe of the plane that launched it.

In TC right now, most missiles are slower than almost all ships of the M3, M4, M5 class so when you launch, you basically outfly the missile.. And I am one that does use Cycrows Engine Tuning as well which make this even more a problem...


I do not know if anyone else is in agreement, but that is my two sense! Smile


Perhaps if some people agree with me on this, you could have a version for us as well as the version you have now?!? Very Happy


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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Nov 08, 12:07    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

I probably should have been more specific Wink

A lot of dumbfires had big lifetime cuts, but they can't hit anything at long range anyway. The consideration here was that they lock up missile defense turrets for no reason and there really isn't any point keeping them 'live' for 70 seconds.

The only non-dumbfire that got cut was the Typhoon from 384 seconds to 150 seconds. I might reverse that. I changed that on Election night and I was kind of drunk Cool I don't remember exactly what my justification was.

I'm curious if the missiles you are having problems with are the Terran Spectre and Terran Poltergeist? They have very short lifespans. I could improve the Spectre's lifespan, but there are serious balance concerns with the Poltergeist since it's auto-tracking.

And as far as slow missiles are concerned, I bet you are looking at the Banshee... I considered upping its speed, but it's a really dirt common missile; its closest competitor the Thunderbolt takes 6 times the cargo space and is harder to acquire. On the plus side, the Thunderbolt has much better speed.

The difficult part here is that missiles usually move at their top speed, but ships don't; when they turn they lose velocity. So it's quite possible for a missile to catch a ship of equal or even faster speed.

If you really want it, I could just make every dogfighting missile faster and send you a package with that tweak. Wink


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Malakie





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PostPosted: Thu, 13. Nov 08, 12:46    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Sandalpocalypse wrote:
I probably should have been more specific Wink

A lot of dumbfires had big lifetime cuts, but they can't hit anything at long range anyway. The consideration here was that they lock up missile defense turrets for no reason and there really isn't any point keeping them 'live' for 70 seconds.

The only non-dumbfire that got cut was the Typhoon from 384 seconds to 150 seconds. I might reverse that. I changed that on Election night and I was kind of drunk Cool I don't remember exactly what my justification was.

I'm curious if the missiles you are having problems with are the Terran Spectre and Terran Poltergeist? They have very short lifespans. I could improve the Spectre's lifespan, but there are serious balance concerns with the Poltergeist since it's auto-tracking.

And as far as slow missiles are concerned, I bet you are looking at the Banshee... I considered upping its speed, but it's a really dirt common missile; its closest competitor the Thunderbolt takes 6 times the cargo space and is harder to acquire. On the plus side, the Thunderbolt has much better speed.

The difficult part here is that missiles usually move at their top speed, but ships don't; when they turn they lose velocity. So it's quite possible for a missile to catch a ship of equal or even faster speed.

If you really want it, I could just make every dogfighting missile faster and send you a package with that tweak. Wink


I think the best way would be just a small mod solely for missiles so it does not mess with your main mod. That way if someone does not want to use the missile changes you and I are talking about they do not need to worry...

There were quite a few missiles that had what I consider to be slow speeds. Here is what I think you could do for a rule of thumb...

All missiles should be at least able to hit the speed of 350. Even when I use Cycrows Overtune on my ships, I never go above 300 for a speed so that I can keep things a bit realistic in the game. Making sure ALL missiles go 350 or faster would allow us to fire them at a distance and be able to continue flying our own ships without worry of running into our own missiles or being blasted apart when they get hit and we are so close to them. The only missile that should not be fast.. say in the 200 range or so is the torpedo... The Firestorm torpedo is definitely one that should be slow as it is massive and used to take out cap ships... and it is slow as they should be for large warhead weapons.. Those kind should be the exception to the speed rule.

Some of the missiles I use routinely and wish they would be faster are: Hornet, Thunderbolt, Hammerhead, Silkworm, Cyclone, and a bunch of others. Also we need to make sure Mosquito can catch any missile when it is used as a anti-missile weapon/defense.


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Sandalpocalypse





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PostPosted: Sun, 16. Nov 08, 21:36    Post subject: Reply with quote Print

Hi Malakie,

Here is a version of the mod with fast missiles. I also extended the lifetime of Poltergeist, Spectre and Wraith missiles. I haven't tested it so yell out if there are any problems.


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