Russia-Ukraine War

[mr.WHO]

Someone screwed epically - Russian took down entire Patriot convoy with one Iskander:
https://twitter.com/WarVehicle/status/1 ... 5942509737

[burger1]

Chinese police to patrol Hungary along with Hungarian police.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-china-se ... 19979.html

More countries seem to be stepping up to say they would send troops to fight in Ukraine.

Plane factory in Taganrog attacked by over 40 drones for over 1 hour.

Not their first screw up. Train a while ago might have been equally bad. Lets drive a train right up to the combat area and stop it.

Someone screwed epically - Russian took down entire Patriot convoy with one Iskander:
https://twitter.com/WarVehicle/status/1 ... 5942509737

[fiksal]

alright, and I am taking gloves off about the Pope Francis

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/po ... 024-03-09/


ignorance and disregard for the situation in Russia, for situation of Ukrainians in Russia is very close to malice.

a position that the Christian Church finds itself often in. The Orthodox Church, that blessed the war, the weapons of war, and murders of Ukrainians, that said that the God is on its side, will now find itself in agreement with the Catholic Pope. It isn't a new thing for both churches to yield or support fascism however, we have books on that.

I will forever repeat why its gnorance is hard to distinguish from malice.

everyone can Google Russian laws, everyone can know how many years you get for discrediting army, and that along with swift court procedure and several years in prison you also lose your property and your kids, forever. This is applied in Russia to the applauds of the Z supporters. Everyone can Google how many times the government, the state TV and regular Russians referred to Ukrainians as less than people, as not of correct ethnicity. Everyone can already Google the ethnic cleansing done on Donbass, Crimea, Mariupol. Everyone can Google how Putin awarded medals to the military as Bucha was discovered.

what does your God say, Pope Francis, about letting people putting their heads down for this?

Probably same as the God that blessed with the Russian Orthodox Church all the weapons of war.

[Falcrack]

what does your God say, Pope Francis, about letting people putting their heads down for this?

Probably same as the God that blessed with the Russian Orthodox Church all the weapons of war.

I'm not agreeing with the Pope on this, but he may be taking this position because of theological issues. After all, didn't Jesus teach the need for peace? How does advocating for continued fighting on the part of Ukraine square with the teachings of Jesus, who said that we should "turn the other cheek", not reviling against those who hurt us? Do the teachings of Jesus require a person to simply roll over and not fight when they are invaded?

I think however there is a fundamental difference between fighting to take revenge for past grievances, and fighting to keep your lives and freedoms. If it is a simply a matter of taking revenge, then I think forgiveness is the better course of action. But Ukraine is in an existential fight for its survival. If it simply gave up, the people of Ukraine would become basically slaves of Russia. Any freedoms they have would evaporate, there would be mass disappearances, and they would be worse off than if they had fought to defend themselves.

While I believe that no nation is justified in starting a war, I think that when a people are invaded, and their lives and liberties are at stake, they have a right to defend themselves. Not just a right, an obligation they owe to themselves and their children.

[fiksal]

but he may be taking this position because of theological issues

At best he is not paying much attention at what's happening in Ukraine, what happened on conquered territories, the families, the kids, and he's not watching any news from inside of Russia, which I see daily.

Ignorence is not an excuse.

At worst, he cant care less.

[mr.WHO]

As Polish Catholic, I can assure you that popes have very long tradition of simping to emperors, tyrants, kaisers and tzars - Pope Francis is not an anomaly, he's a default setting.
Only a handful few Popes in history were actually crazy enough to challeng the status quo.


As for trying to attain peace through negotiations - why not to use those who preach about it?

I think it would be a fair deal to give Vatican to Putin, so he would leave Ukraine alone - given that Russians have weird boner for calling themselves 3rd Rome, offering them a part of original Rome might be good bait
We could also throw Hungary as a bonus.

I think it's a steal!

[chew-ie]

That idea about Hungary... I like

[fiksal]

As Polish Catholic, I can assure you that popes have very long tradition of simping to emperors, tyrants, kaisers and tzars - Pope Francis is not an anomaly, he's a default setting.
Only a handful few Popes in history were actually crazy enough to challeng the status quo.

Good to know. I should be paying more attention at Vatican. Or less.

As for trying to attain peace through negotiations - why not to use those who preach about it?

I think it would be a fair deal to give Vatican to Putin, so he would leave Ukraine alone - given that Russians have weird boner for calling themselves 3rd Rome, offering them a part of original Rome might be good bait
We could also throw Hungary as a bonus.

I think it's a steal!

I think we collectively are solving the real issues here.

I would say, we just need to add Alaska to the pot and this would be accepted in record time

[burger1]

Rumour - More oil refiniery fires.Oil refineries in Kstovo and Orel might be on fire/under attack.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fire-reporte ... 00791.html

Plane factory in Taganrog might have been servicing the last Russian A-50 AWACS.

It looks like Ukraine lost only some parts of a Patriot system vs an entire system. 3 launchers and maybe more?

[fiksal]

here's what life of Ukrainian children is like in Russia, this is what the white flag means to Ukraine

feel free to forward this to the Pope Francis and all that call for surrender

https://tvrain.tv/news/meduza-rossijski ... ol-555854/
Google translated

Since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the Russian authorities have been creating a methodological basis for the “re-education” of forcibly removed Ukrainian children, as well as a system of digital surveillance of them. This is stated in an investigation by Meduza, which studied documents from the Ministry of Education, which deals with this issue, and spoke with department employees.



The ministry documents say that “destructive ideology” is widespread among Ukrainian teenagers, and Russian teachers are faced with the task of instilling in them “spiritual and moral values, as well as historical and national-cultural traditions” of Russia. As a result of this, they should supposedly “form a Russian identity.”

The war, because of which the children ended up in Russia, is described by the Ministry of Education manual as follows: “a complication of the geopolitical situation <...> prompting families <...> to forced relocation.”

In addition, as journalists found out, the authorities want to open “information security centers”, the main task of which is to monitor Ukrainian children. These centers probably make it possible to “de-anonymize” any child’s page on social networks and analyze it down to the likes - and then assign a “destructiveness coefficient” to each teenager. One employee called the system "Big Brother for teenagers" (a reference to Orwell's 1984 - Rain).

According to Meduza, among themselves, ministry employees sometimes refer to Ukrainian teenagers as “potential terrorists” who may begin to oppose the Russian authorities with the support of “their Ukrainian relatives.”

[burger1]

Ryazan oil refinery attacked by multiple drones.

There's currently some Russian Legion of Freedom fighters fighting inside Russia including tanks and drones. Some fighting in Kursk, Belgrod oblasts.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/freedom-russ ... 00581.html

More military planes destroyed.

North Korea still supplying Russia.

US still supplying smaller aid packages 300m+ usd? Other countries still announcing more aid packages.

[mr.WHO]

Poland just ordered 800+ JASSM-ER missile and 1'000+ Air-to-Air missiles in US.

I think we are now upgrading from "Arming to win WW3" to "3-day Special Operation, I'll show you how it's done".

[Observe]

US still supplying smaller aid packages 300m+ usd?

Ukraine will chew through 300m in a couple of weeks max. They are already low (or run out) on ammo, so this drop in the bucket isn't going to turn the tide of Ukrainian battlefield retreat, let alone stop the expected imminent Russian offensive.

Meanwhile, the U.S. is complaining that the 10 billion dollars worth of weapons that they have already sent to Ukraine, has created a serious shortage in stockpiles that is affecting the U.S. military's own force readiness. I imagine Europe is in a similar situation.

This weapons shortfall among Western nations, will surely embolden Russia all the more and cause joy among Chinese war hawks, who have their own expansionist aims.

I am no fan of the Pope, but his call for Ukraine to raise the white flag, might be the most prudent solution to prevent Ukraine losing even more of their land, as well as a looming WW3.

[fiksal]

I am no fan of the Pope, but his call for Ukraine to raise the white flag, might be the most prudent solution to prevent Ukraine losing even more of their land, as well as a looming WW3.

Well I think this is the end of our conversation then

[mr.WHO]

call for Ukraine to raise the white flag, might be the most prudent solution to prevent Ukraine losing even more of their land, as well as a looming WW3.

Google
Remilitarisation of the Rhineland
Annexation of Austria
Sudetenland
Annexation of Cheoslovakia
Neville Chamberlain


...and then stop spewing nonsence.

[mr.WHO]

Some (relatively good) news - there are more and more hints and indications, that Russians didn't destroyed Patriot launchers or radar truck, but rather an ammunition trucks.

Aparently the screw up was that this ammunition convoy was waiting for dispatch sitting still in one place for over 3 hours.

[burger1]

More refineries hit over the last couple days. About half the refineries might have been hit. Not all refineries are equal and produce different products. Air raid sirens in other parts of Russia.

Freedom of Russia still fighting inside Russian territory.

More aid given to Ukraine from various sources over the last few days. Some quite significant.

[fiksal]

this is how Ukrainians live in the occupied territories

for those who think this is just a territory and people don't matter

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1 ... s-election

The Ukrainians rarely refuse to fill in the ballot for a very persuasive reason – a masked, gun-toting Russian serviceman towering next to the official and a car filled with more armed men nearby, Al Jazeera has learned.

The “voting” usually takes place near the entrance of an apartment, and the election official along with the armed soldier can see whose name is ticked off on the ballot.

this isn't a new news however. It happened during the so called referendum as well

[Observe]

Well I think this is the end of our conversation then

If you insist, though I don't see why. I've made it clear all along, that I think Ukraine is fighting a lost cause. I want what's left of Ukraine to live and thrive. You, on the other hand, seem to be in favor of Ukraine fighting to the last 'man', rather than admit defeat.

Best for Ukraine to seek peace and concessions, for tomorrow may bring opportunities to redress past wrongs. The words "He who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day, but he who is battle slain can never rise to fight again" may apply here.

I would love to see Ukraine restored, but what's the point in kicking Russia's ass, if you lose your foot in the process?

[fiksal]

Well I think this is the end of our conversation then

If you insist, though I don't see why.

Because when I talk about people suffering, you talk about the territory instead. I dont see how I anything I wrote made any difference to your point, or just remains unread.

So my strategy is now to fill this thread with repressions that people face on the Russian occupied territories, and some repressions faced by Russians themselves.

I've made it clear all along, that I think Ukraine is fighting a lost cause. I want what's left of Ukraine to live and thrive. You, on the other hand, seem to be in favor of Ukraine fighting to the last 'man', rather than admit defeat.

Best for Ukraine to seek peace and concessions, for tomorrow may bring opportunities to redress past wrongs. The words "He who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day, but he who is battle slain can never rise to fight again" may apply here.

I would love to see Ukraine restored, but what's the point in kicking Russia's ass, if you lose your foot in the process?

I do not say Ukraine must fight to the last man, I say that this is the last fight Ukrainians get to have. There's not going to be another if you surrender.

The people who will be killed, tortured, jailed on the occupied territories will not return.

There won't be a country to even attempt some justice. Kremlin has been clear on that for 2 years, and has shown this on Donbass in the last 8 years.