Single ship = can't pilot other ships?

[JClosed]

As this is an open forum I can reply to whomever I want - thank you very much.

As for being constructive or not. Well - I only advised you to wait until the games hits the shelves. I that way your critics can be founded on facts and not only assumptions. The fact that there is only one ship is well known by now, and nothing what you say now will change that. You can -however- make a big difference if you request for game changes will be stated after release. The developers will have more time to react. I think they will be very busy at this moment to get the game out in November.

That was an advise and no attack, like you seem to think. I did not mean no harm, whatever you make of it.

And you also happened to miss my remark "I do not say you are not entitled to give your opinion". So your opinion is welcome, but be prepared that some people might react to it. As this is an open forum everyone is entitled his/her/it's opinion - that includes myself too....

Yes and once again, why should your advice be more valid then my concern. Just quit lecturing me about what to place where and when. Good thing that you know what the devs think and what they have time for.

I will not heed your advice because I do not think you are right, ok?

I see my good intentions are met by aggression.. Well.. whatever... I gave my opinion just like you did... end of discussion...

[Orthanc]

My dear Sir, if you think that disagreeing with you and voicing concern is aggression, so be it. I am sorry that you feel that way, but you are simply not the authority I accept for putting my concerns to rest or giving me the advice of placement of said concerns.

I wish you a good day anyway

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

You can in fact even land on these beasts and get out of your playership to meet NPCs while watching the large ship move around in space FROM the deck of the ship!

^^^^So according to this, we can dock at our capital ship and walk around the interiors, and watch the outer space from the deck.

Now, we have boarding in X Rebirth.

That means, that we can board a Xenon battleship, and go walk around it?
I really wonder how the interiors of a Xenon capital ship looks like!

[stilgarpl]

That means, that we can board a Xenon battleship, and go walk around it?
I really wonder how the interiors of a Xenon capital ship looks like!

Machines don't need interiors...

But, Xenon are modified Terran Terraformers. Terraformers probably had standard terran interiors, even though they were AI ships (life support could be turned off when no one is aboard).

So, Xenon, as not truly sentient, could have kept this design, not entirely knowing what it is for.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Xenon ships had interiors in previous games, it was a leftover from terraformer design, which they could not get rid off. And that is why you, the player, could board/capture xenon ships and fly them.

[stilgarpl]

could board/capture xenon ships and fly them.

Who were they fighting while boarding? Couldn't they just solve a sudoku and hack the thing?

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

could board/capture xenon ships and fly them.

Who were they fighting while boarding? Couldn't they just solve a sudoku and hack the thing?

Internal defences? Laser turrets, mines, traps maybe? Drones?

Every Xenon ship had a in-built Internal Lasers item (but you cant see it anywhere, they are just harder to board).
Worst thing was that they could actually get another Internal Lasers item, but this time that real, official item. Xenon ship with internal lasers in cargo space is unboardable, no matter how many marines you throw there (you have to find another ship without it, or use Ion weaponry to destroy it).

[Kruniac]

If you're the admiral of your fleet, I don't think you'd want to sit down in the pilot's chair of a super freighter and not let the poor guy do is job.

No. But he should have the option to do so.

As I said before. Modding. If they give us the ability add in flying other ships, everyone's problem is solved.

Everyone who gives not a damn about being a "fleet admiral" can play the game as is. Everyone who wants to be able to fly a super freighter can do so.

Everyone wins.

Adding options to a game is NEVER a bad thing. That's the nature of a sandbox. That's what we are aiming for with Topia. Pure options.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

You can in fact even land on these beasts and get out of your playership to meet NPCs while watching the large ship move around in space FROM the deck of the ship!

I have only one wish.
To be able to talk with captain about orders from that deck.
Direct physical face-to-face talk, talking through radio, or that "RTS-like" tactical interface (which will be added to the game in the future). Anything from those would work great.

Hell, just dont want me to leave the capital ship everytime I want to give it an order and re-enter it again!!!

[stilgarpl]

Hell, just dont want me to leave the capital ship everytime I want to give it an order and re-enter it again!!!

You can always "park" your Skunk inside hangard of that capital. You will be in its sphere of influence, so you will move with it. I just hope that capital jumps with all of the ships in its spehere.

[t31os_]

ANY claims about immersion being broken (or not) are basically complete and utter tripe UNLESS you have actually played what will be X-Rebirth V1.0 and I do not think that is likely unless you are breeching an NDA with Egosoft. Personally, I do not point a finger at immersion per se except in response to speculative claims stated in a factual manner.

If they told you the next X game was played without a monitor and you had to rely on audio cues alone, would you not be able to reasonably say it would break some of the immersion for you?

Or to take a different approach, how about if they told you that in the next X game your ship was represented by a skin of a toilet, in place of where you'd usually see a ship and now you have these flying through space in place of spaceships. Admittedly it might be somewhat comical, but it would be immersion breaking, no?

Just because you have not tried something, doesn't mean you cannot make a reasonable judgement on how said change will impact upon the level of immersion.

I'm still going to try X-Rebirth anyway myself, but i'm fairly confident being stuck in one ship will impact upon my enjoyment of the game, whether largely or to a minor degree i cannot say with 100% certainty, so i'll just have to wait and see.

[stilgarpl]

If they told you the next X game was played without a monitor and you had to rely on audio cues alone, would you not be able to reasonably say it would break some of the immersion for you?

You just gave me an idea for an awesome game about submarine sonar operator Thanks!

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Hell, just dont want me to leave the capital ship everytime I want to give it an order and re-enter it again!!!

You can always "park" your Skunk inside hangard of that capital. You will be in its sphere of influence, so you will move with it. I just hope that capital jumps with all of the ships in its spehere.

Yes, capitals jump together with the Pride of Albion.

But no, I don´t want to enter Skunk just to give my capital thingy an order, I want to sit on the deck with the feel of a commander

[Shootist]

Hell, just dont want me to leave the capital ship everytime I want to give it an order and re-enter it again!!!

You can always "park" your Skunk inside hangard of that capital. You will be in its sphere of influence, so you will move with it. I just hope that capital jumps with all of the ships in its spehere.

Yes, capitals jump together with the Pride of Albion.

But no, I don´t want to enter Skunk just to give my capital thingy an order, I want to sit on the deck with the feel of a commander

Rots of ruck, I'm afraid.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Edit: Just to clarify. Immersion, personal definition for a X game: fly around, see a ship, that is pleasing, stat wise, aesthetically or for whatever other reason. Wanting to own and fly that ship and doing so eventually.
Buying a station and supplying it with wares with my very own ship and bringing stuff (argnu beef, space farming simulator anyone) to market in my very own ship.
Wanting to own a navy that can go toe to toe with the Argon military and eventually getting it. Commanding said fleet from a flagship M2.

That is not a generally accepted definition of the term Immersion where games, simulation, and VR software is concerned.

What can be said about X-Rebirth is the nature of the Immersion is different from X3 and prior, it can not be called broken (yet) using the generally accepted definition. This is not opinion it is simple fact.

The simple fact of the matter is that X-Rebirth is not and was never tauted to be an X4, Egosoft have been very open about this since they announced it's development. If it were tauted as an X4, then speculative claims about immersion being broken based on one feature or another being missing *might* hold some water, but unfortunatly this is not the case.

At this time, we can claim we do not like the concepts but without having a real solid context to judge how said concepts are implemented we can not say the level of immersion of X-Rebirth is better or worse than what we have become accustomed to.

I am not attempting to change your mind, but pointing out the flaw in the literal/common interpretation of your primary argument about immersion being broken because of ONE missing feature when you do not know how that feature fits in the context of the revised game mechanics implemented in X-Rebirth.

X-Rebirth is not X2, X3, nor X4. It is a new game based in the same universe as a follow on from X3:AP, this has been a plain and open fact since day one.

[Orthanc]

Edit: Just to clarify. Immersion, personal definition for a X game: fly around, see a ship, that is pleasing, stat wise, aesthetically or for whatever other reason. Wanting to own and fly that ship and doing so eventually.
Buying a station and supplying it with wares with my very own ship and bringing stuff (argnu beef, space farming simulator anyone) to market in my very own ship.
Wanting to own a navy that can go toe to toe with the Argon military and eventually getting it. Commanding said fleet from a flagship M2.

That is not a generally accepted definition of the term Immersion where games, simulation, and VR software is concerned.

What can be said about X-Rebirth is the nature of the Immersion is different from X3 and prior, it can not be called broken (yet) using the generally accepted definition. This is not opinion it is simple fact.

The simple fact of the matter is that X-Rebirth is not and was never tauted to be an X4, Egosoft have been very open about this since they announced it's development. If it were tauted as an X4, then speculative claims about immersion being broken based on one feature or another being missing *might* hold some water, but unfortunatly this is not the case.

At this time, we can claim we do not like the concepts but without having a real solid context to judge how said concepts are implemented we can not say the level of immersion of X-Rebirth is better or worse than what we have become accustomed to.

I am not attempting to change your mind, but pointing out the flaw in the literal/common interpretation of your primary argument about immersion being broken because of ONE missing feature when you do not know how that feature fits in the context of the revised game mechanics implemented in X-Rebirth.

X-Rebirth is not X2, X3, nor X4. It is a new game based in the same universe as a follow on from X3:AP, this has been a plain and open fact since day one.

Well good thing for you that it isn't.... Geez, the same I stated earlier today. I with an capital I feel not immersed if it is not that way. And that's it you can talk semantics and definition all day long. I do not feel in the game world. Understand now?

Neither you nor egosoft nor anyone else on the planet is eligible to tell me how I FEEL or have to feel about any aspect. MY immersion is broken and you will not fix that with throwing definitions at me.... It's really not that hard to comprehend. I am not stating an universal truth but my feeling about it. How could you possibly say that I am wrong about what I feel?

Edit:

If I said the sun revolved around the moon, that would be erronous and I'd gladly take advice that I am wrong. However that I cannot pilot a capital ship and that it destroys my immersion with the game cannot be proven wrong, since this is a state of me knowing what I get joy from and what not.

You will never know that. The difference is, that I would never say that your immersion is not broken. I would just let you be with it. Just stop that crusade of yours. It has no effect.

[Stellen]

...without having a real solid context to judge how said concepts are implemented we can not say the level of immersion of X-Rebirth is better or worse than what we have become accustomed to.

You can own multiple ships. You can only personally use one of those ships, even though the other ships have human crews and pilots. That's a big, obvious, and arbitrary 'glass wall' preventing you from doing something, so by your definition of immersion, it's an immersion breaker.

If the Skunk was the last ship in the world to use human crews and all other ships were robots, then it wouldn't have been immersion breaking. It would have been just as much of a negative gameplay-wise, but more immersive.

And that's it you can talk semantics and definition all day long. I do not feel in the game world. Understand now?

Feeling "in the game world" is the exact definition of immersive.

[stilgarpl]

You can own multiple ships. You can only personally use one of those ships, even though the other ships have human crews and pilots. That's a big, obvious, and arbitrary 'glass wall' preventing you from doing something, so by your definition of immersion, it's an immersion breaker.

There are million things you cannot do in this game. You can't eat, drink, have sex... (at least I don't know about that part...).
Here, in Real Life you also can't do lots of things. You can't jump to the Moon, laws of physics wouldn't allow that. Does that break your immersion? I think you didn't even notice those "glass walls" because you are used to them. They have always been there.

Everything has its limitations and you are just used to the game that has different set of limitations.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

You will never know that. The difference is, that I would never say that your immersion is not broken. I would just let you be with it. Just stop that crusade of yours. It has no effect.

And stop YOUR apparently blatantly biased and unjustified crusade to try and force an opinion on what immersion means and claiming it breaks it. TBH your rude and arrogant attitude is grating on my rather extensive patience.

I am not on any damned crusade I am just pointing out the GLARING holes in the argument about something you obviously know zip about. Stop using terminology that gives people the wrong impression and you may find people are more amiable with your concerns.

Bernd has heard ALL the arguments wrt the one ship v. multiple ship before. There is nothing of any significance new in this thread that were not in the others that have preceded this one. The last from Egosoft (and Bernd specifically) was give it a try first THEN tell them what is wrong with the new game mechanics formulae and what could be done better.

The ongoing pro-multi-ship arguments are not likely to change that position and TBH I think Bernd is 100% right in what he has said. Try it first then complain, complaining about something without trying it first is tantamount to throwing a childish tantrum because mummy won't give you a lolly pop.

[EDIT]Hightlighted the phrase that really triggered my level of response in open forum. Appologies to my fellow forum members who have otherwise argued quite reasonably on this topic.[/EDIT]

[EDIT]Reduced the emphasis on the predominantly reactionary part of my response.[/EDIT]

[Nanook]

You will never know that. The difference is, that I would never say that your immersion is not broken. I would just let you be with it. Just stop that crusade of yours. It has no effect.

And stop YOUR apparently blatantly biased and unjustified crusade to try and force an opinion on what immersion means and claiming it breaks it. TBH your rude and arrogant attitude is grating on my rather extensive patience....

Actually, you're the one being rude and arrogant. If you can't accept that someone else has a differing opinion, and feels passionate about it, then I suggest you refrain from posting any more on the subject. You have no right to tell others what they can or cannot post. Consider this an informal warning. Any further 'debate' degenerating into such rude behaviour will be split and locked, and the poster will be subject to a formal warning. Enough already!