Split from X-Rebirth Steam poll thread - Round 2

[Texhnolyzed]

I understand that some people find it unacceptable, I was just commenting on how Nanook was making a big deal about losing the game.

You're the one making a big deal. I was just stating my opinion, and my reasons for not wanting a Steam X-Rebirth. If you continue to attack those posters who have a differing opinion to yours, rather than just stick to commenting on the post itself, we're going to have to discuss your posting habits.

You can make a post like your previous one and still dare to state that HE is the one making a big deal? Oh my... xD

[Nanook]

I am not missing the point. The point is, Egosoft is even less 'forever' than Steam, being a much smaller company. Some of my favorite all-time games came from Microprose, which went out of business quite some time ago. Yet I can still play those games, and sometimes do. That's because I have the games and all the patches stored safely away. That can't happen with Steam games. So I have to trust some game company to keep its word and somehow give me full access to my games and any patches even if they go under (looking at both Steam and Egosoft here). Sorry, but after seeing 30+ years of game companies come and go, I simply don't have that level of trust. And that is the whole point.

Well, other than not being able to get and/or patch Steam games anyway.

[apricotslice]

[*] Lack of Internet access - If you don't have a connection that allows you to at least authenticate the game, then you will not be able to play it. For all other situation plenty of options were given IF you bother or if you really want XR.

This also includes lack of bandwidth, lack of download limit, and unreliable service, where the person has no other options. (eg. I work from home, I dont have any freinds who play computer games, I dont have freinds with better access than I do.) Thus the whole auto-patch thing is insurmountable, especially given the propensity for bugged releases, rendering the dvd version as insufficient to be able to play it.

Bottom line: I fear Steam is a death trap for Egosoft in light of it's current fan base and I doubt Steam fanboy's are going to provide the support Egosoft is accustomed to. Why? because they are busy downloading their next game - with Rebirth already a distant memory in their haste to the next adrenalin rush.

I'm definitely with Observe on this.

X games are a whole different species of game, designed for 6 months play or longer to acheive everything, where the average game these days is designed to last several days to a week. As such, X doesnt fit the steam mould.

1. Someone starts some sort of poll, petition, whatever, off site, which is simply "I will not buy Rebirth if I'm forced to use Steam."

I can do that. I'm not sure anyone will vote on it since it means going to an external site, but actually, that is the poll I originally wanted to post, but was beaten to it by this one.

[SFU2236]

To all the Steam haters,

Steam is an acquired taste.

Nearly everyone that hates Steam hasn't used it. The vast majority of the PC gaming community has moved to it. Once you use it, you'll eventually learn to love it.

Yes, steam is DRM. But, it's DRM that has pros with its cons.

You like math? I like math.
Cons: You're required to activate your game, once, online with Steam.
Pros: Steam allows for synchronization across platforms so you spend less time setting up game preferences (Like controls/graphics). Steam also provides great discounts, sales, and bundles. Steam has no restrictions on when or how many times you can download your game, so you can download, install, and uninstall a hundred times a day if you wanted. Instead of wasting money driving to a store, and then having to always keep a CD case around (And losing it means you lose the game) you can just instantly buy and download it online. Hell, you can preorder it and pre-install it and have it unlock on release day.

Actually, the only argument I've commonly seen is "Bawww Steam requires online activation and any game that requires online to play is bad BAWWWW".

But most games require online activation with their CD keys, anyway. Hell, there have been games that only let you install three times total before the CD bricks itself. And single player games that require a constant internet connection to work. And there are other platforms that steal your information, search for anything you didn't buy from their service, and then blatantly charge your card an arbitrary amount of money just in case you pirated it. I won't mention any names though.

It could be worse. But IMO, steam has more pros than cons. Been using it since its first month in release (And hated it for about two years)

Actually, the first two years of steam was broken. The friends system didn't work and it had all kinds of glitches and stuff. I had about $800 worth of games in physical copies, and about $300 on steam. The $800 worth of games was something like 50 games total and the CD cases were taking up way too much space so I took all the CD keys down and put them on my external, 2TB, backup hard drive. I then chucked the CD cases in the trash, because they were now unnecessary. A week later, in my sleep, I awoke to the sound of a loud crash. After an investigation I found my EHDD on the floor, and it wouldn't work properly any more after that (Thanks, kitty.) I was very angry, but not too upset because all of my games where installed properly so I didn't really need the keys anymore (And the trash was long gone). The next morning my computer got the BSOD and it had to be reformatted. I lost $800 worth of games. I was infuriated that I had lost ALL of my games.

Spoiler

Show

But then I remembered I had about $300 worth of games on Steam and I re-downloaded them all. Come Christmas time, I went bundle-crazy and bought all the same games and then some for only a few hundred bucks. Now I have a current-retail-value of $1,100 on my steam account for a total of ~130 games. An average of less than $10 per game.

Spoiler

Show

And I don't work for Valve.

[Choublanc]

To all the Steam haters....

He, he, your post is outstanding

Do you know the thread is already 120 pages long?

[apricotslice]

1. Someone starts some sort of poll, petition, whatever, off site, which is simply "I will not buy Rebirth if I'm forced to use Steam."

Done.

Edit : URL removed

Voting and Posting in the thread requires registration. Sorry, I cant find a way around this.

Unfortunately, there is a 2nd Null option there, as the software demands 2 options. Please ignore it.

As the thread says, if that option is not your position, please ignore the poll completely.

Edit : Edited the above. Unfortunately, the forums software needs you to be registered in order to vote. I cant find a way around it.

Edit 2 : New poll url :
http://apricotmappingservice.com/poll/p ... me=XRsteam

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

1. Someone starts some sort of poll, petition, whatever, off site, which is simply "I will not buy Rebirth if I'm forced to use Steam."

Done.

http://apricotmappingservice.com/X3foru ... .php?t=465

The poll should be active for everyone. Posting in the thread requires registration

What? I have to register to vote in this poll?? To hand over my precious personal details to some external 3rd party software that could do anything with them???

THIS. IS. UNACCEPTABLE.

External Poll = GAME OVER!

[apricotslice]

The poll should be active for everyone. Posting in the thread requires registration

What? I have to register to vote in this poll??

Which I guess shows how well you read peoples posts.

"The poll should be active for everyone" means you DONT need to register to vote.

In any case, since your wont be voting, its a null point for you.

You only need to register if you wish to post a comment, which isnt necessary anyway.

Edit : Ok, there is a problem. Let me sort it. I've never done a general poll before.

Edit 2 : I guess thats what you get with free software.

Unfortunately, the forums software needs you to be registered in order to vote.

Sorry, I cant find a way around it that doesnt involve reprogramming.

Edit 3 : Someone asked, I can do it, so I did.

Doesnt mean anyone actually will vote. Its not a solicitation to my forum. I'm not real happy that phpBB wont allow a vote from an unregistered person, but I guess I can understand why. Its up to people if they want to make the effort or not.

I'd add though, that I can provide a safe area specifically for us non-steam people to post in, where all the name calling, unpleasantness and steam-selling would be removed if it snuck in. My forum runs on different rules to here.

[strude]

The poll should be active for everyone. Posting in the thread requires registration

What? I have to register to vote in this poll??

Which I guess shows how well you read peoples posts.

"The poll should be active for everyone" means you DONT need to register to vote.

In any case, since your wont be voting, its a null point for you.

You only need to register if you wish to post a comment, which isnt necessary anyway.

Edit : Ok, there is a problem. Let me sort it. I've never done a general poll before.

Edit 2 : I guess thats what you get with free software.

Unfortunately, the forums software needs you to be registered in order to vote.

Sorry, I cant find a way around it that doesnt involve reprogramming.

Edit 3 : Someone asked, I can do it, so I did.

Doesnt mean anyone actually will vote. Its not a solicitation to my forum. I'm not real happy that phpBB wont allow a vote from an unregistered person, but I guess I can understand why. Its up to people if they want to make the effort or not.

I'd add though, that I can provide a safe area specifically for us non-steam people to post in, where all the name calling, unpleasantness and steam-selling would be removed if it snuck in. My forum runs on different rules to here.

Unacceptable.

This poll offers nothing of value to me, so why should I submit to online registration just to vote? I'm being FORCED to go to a third party website in order to submit my opinion? It reprehensible that I, and others like me, are being PURPOSELY EXCLUDED from contributing.

It's fine for all those PRO-POLLERS to have their say, but what happens when there is a considerable number of users registered to vote? Will those user details be sold to marketing companies? What if the site gets hacked? PERSONAL PRIVACY GONE!! All I want is the OPTION to vote without registering my details, why is this so hard to understand?

External Poll = GAME OVER!

Heythis side of the argument is fun, no wonder it's gone on so long!

[apricotslice]

Whatever.

It was asked for, its there.

Ok then, fairs fair, whats your ideal poll ? I'll set that up as well.

And by the by, registration includes nothing about you except an email address, and feel free to set up a new one just for it that completely fails to identify you.

[X2-Eliah]

Done.

http://apricotmappingservice.com/X3foru ... .php?t=465

Voting and Posting in the thread requires registration. Sorry, I cant find a way around this.

Wtf. Sorry dude, but register on a third party site that I have no knowledge of, with my personal information? Yeah right, why don't I just post my emails and passwords to spammers directly.

Random Registration = GAME OVER. And I'm not being sarcastic or 'funny', I'm dead serious here.

Can you look into some other polling sites that don't require anything beyond clicking on a link for normal people? If your own site doesn't fit this, then look for another...

[Firewrath]

Well, i'll be honest.
i havnt read the whole thread.
so im not really going to join in the discussion here.

But ive had Steam since Team Fortress Classic moved over from WON.net to the Steam servers.
(the horrible horrible Steam servers. Mind it was all Brand New then, but omg leave working servers running till the new ones get fixed *goes off on a rant* >.> )

*Ahem*
So. Yeah. I havnt been a fan, even though i do have HL2 on there, but the offline mode never really worked for me when i got it, so that sat on my self till this spring actually,
ive also had dialup since like 93-94*, and Steam is Not dialup friendly,
(*before you even think it, there is NOTHING better out where i live. Sorry but that strikes a nerve when people go "well upgrade to something faster or move." Yeah. Its not like im just choosing to ignore better internet access just so i can randomly complain about it on a forum, or that i have a Life where i live that i can just easily pickup and move away from. >.<)

and right now, things arnt exactly the best,
i was laid off (yeah, who wasnt....) i got rid of the phoneline to keep the monthly bills down, and so on,
i do get to borrow a net access, but that means things like Steam are an even bigger 'not going to happen' for me.

BUT
Besides ALL of that. I wouldnt have gotten the game if it used Steam anyways.

its simple to me really, I think it should work like this:
I buy the game, I install the game, I play the game. The End.

not:
I buy the game. I register online and wait for some company to approve my purchase and tell me that im 'allowed' to play the game i paid money for and Own. Then download a bunch of crap i dont want and wont ever use. Then Maybe i can play it at home in offline mode if it decides to work.

I also have every game i ever bought. Over the summer i reinstalled Quake and played through it a few times. so i like to keep my games around and play them and not have to worry if i'll be able to activate them when i reinstall.
Just pick up the CD/DVD, put it in the computer, install, and play.

So like i said, ive avoided commenting in this thread before because any other time on the internet i normally get told things like 'lolz, just move and get better net access, moron' (to put it nicely) and Other such things.

So people can think im 'stupid' because i dont see the great advantages to steam, or how it prevents 'invasive DRM' (even though i feel that Steam is just as bad, but not going there) or 'simple' because i dont need everything steam 'offers' Just to play a game, or both because i wont take 'necessary steps for better internet access'.

but the whole X:Rebirth = Steam thing has kind of gnawed at me for a while now, then i seen apricotslice's sig over in the X3TC Scripts&Mods forum (which is where i hide from such discussions, ) and figured id finally just post and throw my opinion out there. It probably wont make any difference in the end and i'll probably hear a lot of the normal ...stuff i do when i say such things. But. There it is.


And if you dont want to read all of this.
(I honestly didnt start out to make a post this long. >.<)
I feel this sums it up for me:

"Its simple to me really, I think it should work like this:
I buy the game, I install the game, I play the game. The End."

[apricotslice]

Can you look into some other polling sites that don't require anything beyond clicking on a link for normal people? If your own site doesn't fit this, then look for another...

Ok, try this .......

http://apricotmappingservice.com/poll/p ... me=XRsteam

And yes, if someone wants a full option poll, I'll try and make it the same way as this one.

[X2-Eliah]

Tried it. Didn't click the one option.

[apricotslice]

Tried it. Didn't click the one option.

Surprise surprise.

Actually, I'm not happy with it anyway. It doesnt show the results, except as reports. Thats the trouble with free software, limited.

[X2-Eliah]

Well what did you expect, I wonder. Only one option saying "OMG I won't buy Rebirth", you wanted me to click it even if I do not agree with that? The point of a poll is to let me say my opinion... that one single option didn't allow me to do so.

Most I could do there is to report that the link works and it is easy to get to.

EDIT - Hm. if I don't select 'the option', I can still submit. How did you set it up, will it auto-assign me as having selected it, or will it recognize I did not choose it and submitted it? It would be good if that point could be clarified.

[apricotslice]

Well what did you expect, I wonder. Only one option saying "OMG I won't buy Rebirth", you wanted me to click it even if I do not agree with that? The point of a poll is to let me say my opinion... that one single option didn't allow me to do so.

Most I could do there is to report that the link works and it is easy to get to.

EDIT - Hm. if I don't select 'the option', I can still submit. How did you set it up, will it auto-assign me as having selected it, or will it recognize I did not choose it and submitted it? It would be good if that point could be clarified.

Hey, I set up what was asked for. The request was for that single item only. And as it happens, thats all I'm interested in anyway.

As for your visit, I think it records you as "abandonned".

Oh, just checked. 6 attempted, 2 abandonned, 3 out of 4 voted.

So in clicking submit without actually checking the button, its recorded you as voting for nothing.

[X2-Eliah]

Alright, thanks. Could the link to it be added to the OP, please?

[the old one]

I thought i would go through all the posts from steam advocates,after an hour i give up but one thing i did notice was the considerable amount of posts giveing advice on how to work around problems and niggling bits and pieces which shows how good it is.The poor misguided none steam advocates burden them selves with just putting a disc in the cd rom,press install game ,when the game is installed hit the exe and play,we must be daft i dont think,the old one

[strude]

I thought i would go through all the posts from steam advocates,after an hour i give up but one thing i did notice was the considerable amount of posts giveing advice on how to work around problems and niggling bits and pieces which shows how good it is.The poor misguided none steam advocates burden them selves with just putting a disc in the cd rom,press install game ,when the game is installed hit the exe and play,we must be daft i dont think,the old one

The work arounds are usually aimed at helping the no Steam crowd who take issue with some of the ways Steam works. Most often these come about along the lines of

"I don't like the way Steam does XYZ"

"Well you can work around that by doing ABC"

"Thanks for that, but what I actually meant was Steam sux and I'm never going to use it anyway"

If you're a general Steam user, no work arounds are required.

EDIT: Changed to "take issue" from "have issues" for clarity