Still no sign of cockpits

Greb Jnnayr · Post by **Greb Jnnayr** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 05:03

karvala wrote:
Greb Jnnayr wrote:Egosoft did listen to the community. The community said the the Cockpits in X2 were useless, bland, ugly, covered to much of the view, were all the same from race to race, and didnt match the ship that they were on. So Egosoft didnt want to make that mistake again, and they didnt have time to make the kind of cockpits that the community were asking for. Also that poll is useless, doesn't really prove anything, since there were not enough people to vote on it to be considered a good enough sample base. Heck, I saw the poll and didn't want to vote on it, and there were many other people who said they didn't vote on it either.

Where was the option for:
"Yes cockpits are cool, but I would rather have no cockpits, then have the cockpits from X2" option? I didnt like the options, thats why I didnt vote. Heck, there are many classed in college just for statistics, teach you how to get a good sample base, create the right kind of choices for people to vote on, choices that are not leading to a certian result wanted. Anyways, that poll is useless and doesn't prove anything, has no ground to really stand on.
Yes, there are classes on probability and statistics, including Bayesian inference, which I've previously taught, and the first thing to note here is that the poll may not be perfect, but it provides more information than the complete absence of a poll, and the information it does provide points towards people wanting cockpits, even cockpits like those in X2 in preference to nothing.

Just because you don't agree with the result of a poll, doesn't somehow make the information irrelevant or non-existent. It's also highly irrational to claim the existence of a silent majority that happened to support your point of view, but never got around to voting in the poll for whatever reason, but which if they had, would have magically reversed the result.

The results have nothing to do with my feeling on how relevent that poll really is. Heck, if the results were opposite I would still feel the same way. I didnt specifially say that the people who did not vote, would have made the result different, but there were many people who read this thread that did not vote, whether they agreed with the no-cockpit thing or not. Its just there isn't enough of a sample base to say those results are accurate enough, and the choices weren't very good.

Greb Jnnayr · Post by **Greb Jnnayr** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 05:05

karvala wrote:
THC wrote:If cockpits are in X4 would people who don't like pits be pissed if there was no option to turn them off ?
Oh, there will be cockpits in X4, you can count on it. And I'll put my neck on the line now and say that not only will they be there, but they'll be made a specific selling point. But then I'm cynical like that, because I've seen it happen all too often in the past.

Well the specific selling point might be that they created unique functional cockpits for everyone of the ships that match the geomety of the ship. Ya, that would be a good selling point.

Da_Imp · Post by **Da_Imp** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 05:12

Greb Jnnayr wrote: Well the specific selling point might be that they created unique functional cockpits for everyone of the ships that match the geomety of the ship. Ya, that would be a good selling point.

Might be a sellingpoint for the expansion

*Edit* For your amusement: How would X3 look with a cockpit?

Slocket · Post by **Slocket** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 10:05

The real cockpits are not just 2-D. They are actual 3-D bod models and have some relevant data such as shields, hull, wepaon, and missle status. Plus cargo door open, seta, a few thing. I would have liked them. I hope someone can determine if it is possible to swap some from X2 and stick them on one in X3 even though the geometry does not show up.

over 50,000 views. Alot of interest in this subject.

I think I would have went with simpler graphics and more polished gameplay plus cockpits. What good is eye candy if most people have to turn off all the detail just to get a decent frame rate (contradiction)?

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 10:26

karvala wrote:
Greb Jnnayr wrote:Egosoft did listen to the community. The community said the the Cockpits in X2 were useless, bland, ugly, covered to much of the view, were all the same from race to race, and didnt match the ship that they were on. So Egosoft didnt want to make that mistake again, and they didnt have time to make the kind of cockpits that the community were asking for. Also that poll is useless, doesn't really prove anything, since there were not enough people to vote on it to be considered a good enough sample base. Heck, I saw the poll and didn't want to vote on it, and there were many other people who said they didn't vote on it either.

Where was the option for:
"Yes cockpits are cool, but I would rather have no cockpits, then have the cockpits from X2" option? I didnt like the options, thats why I didnt vote. Heck, there are many classed in college just for statistics, teach you how to get a good sample base, create the right kind of choices for people to vote on, choices that are not leading to a certian result wanted. Anyways, that poll is useless and doesn't prove anything, has no ground to really stand on.
... the first thing to note here is that the poll may not be perfect, but it provides more information than the complete absence of a poll, and the information it does provide points towards people wanting cockpits, even cockpits like those in X2 in preference to nothing.

Just because you don't agree with the result of a poll, doesn't somehow make the information irrelevant or non-existent. It's also highly irrational to claim the existence of a silent majority that happened to support your point of view, but never got around to voting in the poll for whatever reason, but which if they had, would have magically reversed the result.

[ external image ]

However, I dislike the fact that people refuse to accept any form of explanation from Egosoft. Why is it so hard to do? They didn't have time to make every individual cockpit, so they didn't do it.

'Nuff said, we can hope they are in future versions (I for one find X3 fine without cockpits, so i am no longer really that fussed... yes it would be nice, but no I won't moan/lose sleep over it), but I would rather see other things take precidence.

Of course, those whom want cockpits will want those to take preference over other items - but I guess it all depends upon sheer timescale to complete the project. How long would it take Egosoft to do such a thing, and why should they do that intead of including alot of other items instead (based upon the principle it will take more time to complete than many other aspects of gameplay... after all, a different cockpit and interface being redone again could be quite time consuming I guess

)

Would cockpits be more important than other issues people are currently listing about the game?

Slocket · Post by **Slocket** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 11:05

Maybe the issues with X3 would not be there if they did not spend such a time consuming drastic changes to the engine mechanics and extreme graphics; which were working just fine in X2.

That took alot of time and left nothing for really improved gameplay.

X2 patched to 1.4 was fine. I would have added onto to it. More content/features and some more graphics (includign cockpit), but not over do it. that is where you can run into problems.

THEN do a X3. Cash made from an expanison to X2 would have been good to finaince that big of a project.

Of course, you have to make the balance against a rehashed game.

I think, speculate, they were going to make a new game instead of an expansion trying to capture part of the Console game market. They were speaking about alll along. later things were not working out, so they dumped the Console version. Now the code is all strangled due to the influence of the consolitis it suffered, and the final product is found wanting.

I do hope they can fix it up to run. I am not spending 500 $ to get a new card again. I will wait for a rolling demo to see if my computer can run it with a decent frame rate.

In the end, it is not about the cost of the game, that is small, it is the super computer to run it with the high graphics, else the gameplay is hardly better than X2 for as I read people complaining. Promised features dropped too.

But this is all speculation. No one knows except the creators of the game. I would have been happy with the expansion The Return which was cancelled. Later when things quite down, I will try out X3 (maybe it will be cheaper and I have a Super video card by then).

Darkon · Post by **Darkon** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 12:51

Furthermore, cockpits are relevant for a lot of people, I admit, but it doesn't stop the game from working properly. We can complain about the lack of time and point fingers around all we want, but fact is, Egosoft didn't have the time. And given the issues present, Im glad they didn't take time to insert cockpits if it meant there would be even more game-crippling performance issues.

'working properly', yes it works properly(sortof), but so did freelancer (no offence to freelancer fan), but just working doesn't make it a good game.

However, I dislike the fact that people refuse to accept any form of explanation from Egosoft. Why is it so hard to do? They didn't have time to make every individual cockpit, so they didn't do it.

'Nuff said, we can hope they are in future versions (I for one find X3 fine without cockpits, so i am no longer really that fussed... yes it would be nice, but no I won't moan/lose sleep over it), but I would rather see other things take precidence.

'They didn't have time', that's fine, I accept that explanation.
Now I hope Egosoft accepts my explanation that I didn't buy X3 because it didn't have cockpits.

Of course, those whom want cockpits will want those to take preference over other items - but I guess it all depends upon sheer timescale to complete the project. How long would it take Egosoft to do such a thing, and why should they do that intead of including alot of other items instead (based upon the principle it will take more time to complete than many other aspects of gameplay... after all, a different cockpit and interface being redone again could be quite time consuming I guess )

Would cockpits be more important than other issues people are currently listing about the game?

Not to sound cocky here, but Egosofts time constraints are not my concern, I want a game I'll enjoy, a game I am willing to spend my money on. So this basically comes down to a choice.
Half finished, lacking game now or Great Game (what egosoft usually does) later.
Hmm, I choose later.

X2 patched to 1.4 was fine. I would have added onto to it. More content/features and some more graphics (includign cockpit), but not over do it. that is where you can run into problems.

THEN do a X3. Cash made from an expanison to X2 would have been good to finaince that big of a project.

To be honest if Egosoft had released X2-The Return as originally planned, I would have bought it without a thought, because it wouldn't have changed anything in X2, mearly added to an already great game.

I stopped playing X2 a while ago in preparation for X3.
But after I read this thread and realising I was going to have to wait for X4, I re-installed it and have since been having a ball.

There was nothing terribly wrong with X2, all that needed to be done was a "small" graphics increase, fix a few problems and add some new stuff.
As said before, the X series is a Niche game, which in most cases means we as a group are not as dependant on graphics as others. Niche games thrive of engaging gameplay not graphics, and this is where Egosoft's focus should have been.

Now I have read most of the threads coming through, and there are alot of problems with X3 (mainly bugs), but nogame is perfect and bugs are to be expected with games these day.
This I wouldn't have worried about as Egosoft has always been great on Post Release Support.
But to leave something out that was in the previous game is just "Wrong".

So to recap X2 - Great Game.
X3 - Just doesn't make the Grade.
X4 - We Hope they get it right this time.........

soleseacher · Post by **soleseacher** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 13:00

WOW! now thats what I call a thread 51353 views,1160 post well 1161 now

Well Egosoft think u have dropped one hell of a big clanger on this subject don't you

yes and on the subject I am also a supporter of cockpits

mrrix · Post by **mrrix** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 15:34

Well, i like to say that we should have the option to switch on or off cockits, tbh, its like playing a game say a first person shooter with no jump key, this is a flight sim with no cockpit, hrm what the hell is that all about hey?

ive been playing since game is out, but would be nice to see a cockpit.

makes me laugh tho with no cockpit, really is mind blowing the fact we dont have the option. even tho i heard, it blocks your view, well i think it up to the user to decide.

Rix

thrangar · Post by **thrangar** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:27

When they first said there would be no cockpits,I went

but it wasnt a big deal(to me)I agrred with their reasoning that it was/would just get in the way,so for the life of me I just dont understand why they stuck that god awfull target box in it place...just totally and utterly baffled by that decission

Cheers/Thrangar

Mr Wolf · Post by **Mr Wolf** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:29

Just got the game.

I must say, that if I had found out that there were no cockpits before I bought it, I would not have bought x3.

A flight sim with no cockpit? What the hell is that all about?

Totally ruins the immersion of the game, to be floating around somewhere behind my ship.

Being in the cockpit is one of the strengths of the x games. I am totally confounded as to why they took them out.

I have played many many space sim games, since the good old days of Elite, and I have never ever played a good space sim with no cockpit.

I love the x games, and have been looking forward to this x3, now I feel like someone just took a dump on my birthday cake.

A cockpit helps the suspension of disbelief, which is necessary for any good story, film, game.

Give us a choice, that is all I ask.

Galaxy613 · Post by **Galaxy613** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:37

Mr Wolf wrote:Just got the game.

I must say, that if I had found out that there were no cockpits before I bought it, I would not have bought x3.

A flight sim with no cockpit? What the hell is that all about?

Totally ruins the immersion of the game, to be floating around somewhere behind my ship.

Being in the cockpit is one of the strengths of the x games. I am totally confounded as to why they took them out.

I have played many many space sim games, since the good old days of Elite, and I have never ever played a good space sim with no cockpit.

I love the x games, and have been looking forward to this x3, now I feel like someone just took a dump on my birthday cake.

A cockpit helps the suspension of disbelief, which is necessary for any good story, film, game.

Give us a choice, that is all I ask.

But did you try X3 AT ALL? Did you put X3 on the shelf when you saw this thread? Please install X3, play the combat simulation, and tell us how badly you miss the cockpit.

Xaffax · Post by **Xaffax** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:42

Well the way it is now just suck, it feels like playing with a mamba between your legs. And when you seen no hull al the ships are the same.

Actualy I think that if they drop the cockpit they better go all the way to a third person kind of game. Not my type of game but even freelancer is better than this.

The way it is now my X3 is just going to be a dustcollector.

Duriel_LOP · Post by **Duriel_LOP** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:45

I cannot believe it, who started this up again? Oh well everyone is just repeating the same points over and over again that have

ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED BY EGOSOFT!

Ok I shouldn't have shouted, but it is extremely obvious that some of you have just read the last page, saw reactions and then got upset and posted, the problem is that these things have already been talked about, now please if you don't like cockpits, don't buy X3, there is nothing you can really do except go to the modding comunity for X3 and see what they have planned. Bernd Lehahn said so himself that they were not going to do cockpits, not now and most likely not for an expansion either!

So please give it a rest!

Mr Wolf · Post by **Mr Wolf** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:50

I fully intend to do so.

If I had have known before, I wouldnt have bought it out of anger.

But I did, and I am not going to take it back without giving it a chance.

I loved the other x games, and I intend to love this one too, dispite its most annoying flaw.

I play the online space game, EvE-online, and I love it. It also has an outside view of the ship at all times.

I will still enjoy both games, but I know I would enjoy them soooo much more if I had a cockpit.

I understand that the dicision may have been a rational one given the limitations of game developing, but I still feel the need to rant that I think it was a bad decision.

Greb Jnnayr · Post by **Greb Jnnayr** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 16:52

Mr Wolf wrote:Just got the game.

I must say, that if I had found out that there were no cockpits before I bought it, I would not have bought x3.

A flight sim with no cockpit? What the hell is that all about?

Totally ruins the immersion of the game, to be floating around somewhere behind my ship.

Being in the cockpit is one of the strengths of the x games. I am totally confounded as to why they took them out.

I have played many many space sim games, since the good old days of Elite, and I have never ever played a good space sim with no cockpit.

I love the x games, and have been looking forward to this x3, now I feel like someone just took a dump on my birthday cake.

A cockpit helps the suspension of disbelief, which is necessary for any good story, film, game.

Give us a choice, that is all I ask.

LOL, the best space sims I have ever played didn't have cockpits I have yet seen a Space combat sim beat the gameplay and the battles of Freespace 1 and 2.

Post by **Cycrow** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 17:12

y does everyone keep brining elite into this
elite didn't have a cockpit

seikou · Post by **seikou** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 17:27

Greb Jnnayr wrote: LOL, the best space sims I have ever played didn't have cockpits I have yet seen a Space combat sim beat the gameplay and the battles of Freespace 1 and 2.

Wrong! The best space sim ever HAD cockpit. geez, nub, u should try X2.

soleseacher · Post by **soleseacher** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 17:33

Greb Jnnayr wrote:

LOL, the best space sims I have ever played didn't have cockpits I have yet seen a Space combat sim beat the gameplay and the battles of Freespace 1 and 2.

Wrong! The best space sim ever HAD cockpit. geez, nub, u should try X2.

Well said Seiqou

karvala · Post by **karvala** » Tue, 8. Nov 05, 17:55

Cycrow wrote:y does everyone keep brining elite into this
elite didn't have a cockpit

That depends on your interpretation. It DID have the ship's readings on screen in a panel below the outside view window, which gave many people the sense of being inside the ship looking out, as opposed to floating in space with no sign of instrumentation anywhere except superimposed through the HUD.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Still no sign of cockpits