Help Designing Ships In 3ds

[saiien]

Hello Everybody I have tried to design a lot off ships in 3dsMax and they
look realy great on the drawing board but when i try to export it to the game i can't se my new ship or i get diffrent sort of things flying arround ?

Now: i have read all the treads in here and in the Germans Site and the tutorials in here is a bit out dated in my Understanding i have been reading "how to understand a scene file" and so on a little help but im not a programmer!!.

My Question is.

WHY wont Anybody Tell or make a mini tutorial on how to make a ship in 3dsM I know i'm not the only one thats stuck on this and it's great work your people out there are doing with mods and scripts and it's so fun to play the game with all these new ships and scripts but it would be fun to make your own personal ship and put it in the game and/or share them.
btw. i'm using 3dsm.6.0. win xp and all the tools like ra's bodwiever/ego's
exporter.and so on and i'm starting getting tired after trying in 2 month.

any comments (c.j, ra, earthpilot, shadowtech, just to name a few that's know how it's done

[DeadlyDa]

Ah...er...well, I'm no expert...but here is how I got the following ship up and flying in X2 as an M6 (about the same size as the Osprey):

[ external image ]

Disclaimer: I started out just using the text editor to build scene files using standard X2 parts from the "v" folder. The GFX modding stuff is pretty bleeding edge, and I have yet to get an answer to any of the questions I have asked...you just have to hack away at it, and analyse the resulting parts & scenes in a text editor...comparing them to the original bits from Ego (or working ships by other folk).

Frankly, there are almost certainly other/better ways to do this...and I probably have a number of things wrong. But so far I have been able to put a number of ships into X2..so I guess i can safely say "hey, it works for me!"

OK, here goes. This may be a bit lengthy, so stay with me.

First I found a reasonably low-poly mesh I liked. In the above example, I used the A-17 Broadsword model by Corsair(pilot) as a starting point.

1. I used Max 6.0 to break the original mesh up into pieces, and reattached them into 4 main "parts"; front, rear, engines, and wings. These were my personal choices, based on the model. At a minimum, I wanted a separate front section that would work as the cockpit, but you can probably get by with a single body for a small ship. (Note: At some point you will need to play around with scaling to get the size right for in-game use. More on that later.)
2. I named the new parts I was creating with numbers that matched up with what I intended to use in the "v" file, like 16371_engines, 16372_wings, etc. The one exception is that the part I wanted to use as the primary cockpit (#1) was named 16370_1. The "_1" at the end of the part name is apparently used by the Ego exporter to automatically identify the part as cockpit #1 in the scene file. When using Ego-supplied parts, use their numbers (unless you resize them, in which case you need to use a new part number.)
3. Following the GFX manual, for each custom part I centered the pivot, centered the part (0,0,0), reset the Xform, colapsed the modifyier stack, and used the Ego exporter to export the parts using my new numbers.
4. I then placed the 940 body at 0, 0, 0 along with the front section of my ship (the one with "_1" at the end of the name), and attached the rest of the custom ship parts.
5. Using the Maxscript importer, I imported/placed a standard X2 laser part (I used 887) for my front lasers (3 front guns in my example, above) and named all three of them 887_1, so that the front guns would be automatically associated with cockpit #1.
6. I then placed 3 turrets on my ship using part #939, and named them 939_2, 939_3, 939_4...for cockpit numbers 2, 3, and 4.
7. I placed guns for each of the turrets using part #944, with 2-guns in the rear, and 1-gun top & bottom (with part names 944_2, 944_2, 944_3, 944_4).
8. I lifted a texture I liked from an existing X2 ship body and applied it to my new ship.
9. I selected the whole mess in Max (my new parts, as well as the ones I imported), and exported it using the Ego exporter as a scene file (I called mine 16379.bod).
10. I then placed the parts in the "v" folder of my personal mod, and the scene file in the "cut" folder.
11. Using the X2Editor, I modified an unused entry in TShips (actually, reused an entry, since my TShips is full) to get my nw model into the game, and ensure that there were guns installed for all the hardpoints I had installed on my model in Max. (See the other modding threads listed in the "sticky" at the top for info.)
12. I added the names of my parts and scene file into the *.catd file for my personal mod (again, this is my choice..I've unpacked everything in another directory for development, but run my game from cat/dat files). I then rebuilt my cat/dat files (I use the X2Modder tool) and copied the results to my X2 directory.
12. Fire up the game, script your self your new ship (or come up in the galaxy editor, and creat the ship)...and you're away!

You may need to pop back into Max, group all your parts, and scale the model up/down to suit. I eventually figured out that I could look at the "automatic size" number in the .bod file for the main ship parts and get a good idea if the ships would be too big/small once I got it in the game. (if anyone has a better approach than "trial & error", please let me know!)

The above instructions will center the origin of your cockpit view (cockpit scene is specified in TShips) in whatever part you named with the "_1" ending. I did (finally) figure out how to relocate the origin of the cockpit view...but this post has already gone on far longer than I intended. If you really need to move the origin of your cockpit scene, let me know.

Again, I'm no expert. If anyone sees something I'm doing wrong, or could do better...please let me know.

Finally, I probably forgot/left out a few bits, so feel free to ask if you get stuck...I'll try and help if I can.

[saiien]

Oh I see i did it the other way round importet all the diffrent bits and parts From /v for my ships and scaled and rotated the diffrent parts and then put them in the places i wanted them to be on the body of my model and named them with their body parts and got a lot of awesome ships made this way off caurse one at a time then on my complete model i put a editble mesh then uvw map fit X-form then reset exported it to Modtest\v 10500.bod as Body back in 3dsM imported 940 to the (10500.bod)/Mesh exported it to modtest\cut as Scene Then Copied Both to the X2\Dir Cut and V and in Tships used the Nova Slot to tell the game to use the 10500 Model Instead off 04170 Model. fires up X2 Just to se Pipes And Thrusters Flying arround as a Nova Funny Tho but dissapointing lol. put i have made a lot of ships designs for the pirates m6,m4,m3 and telardi and so on but just can't figure out to put them in right. i'm going to try your approatch tho it's sounds a little bit more difficult but hey if it's works then why not Thanks for the quik response goig to give you a fit Back on How Things is going

[saiien]

I Got it working makeing ships in 3dsmax and now the look like i wan't them to and as they do on drawing board but how ever i do have a little
difficulty to get the lasers working and i need to move the view points becaurse i got some edges in the front views do you know how to correct
them !!!

Thanks for the help it's prisiated.

[DeadlyDa]

I'm just now heading off to grab some sleep...need to be in NYC early tomorrow!

I'll give you a quick overview of what I'm doing. I just put a Protector class battlecruiser into the game, with 4 front guns, and 6 turrets with 4 guns each.

I've finally got the cockpit view relocation down to a science.

Anyway, sorry to leave you hanging for the night...but I'll respond when I get home tomorrow evening.

[DeadlyDa]

Saiien...take a look at some info I just posted at http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68144 ...it should help.

If not PM me and I'll see what I can do to assist.

[Commander Jamieson]

I Got it working makeing ships in 3dsmax and now the look like i wan't them to and as they do on drawing board but how ever i do have a little
difficulty to get the lasers working and i need to move the view points becaurse i got some edges in the front views do you know how to correct
them !!!

Thanks for the help it's prisiated.

I know I am a bit late for this but I have only seen it now. And since there was no answer for it, here it is for all others who might want to know

To shift your point of view in your cockpit, adjust these three values in red in your P0; B 940 parts line in your scene (cut) file:

P 0; B 940; N 940_core;
{ 0x2002; 0; 0; 0; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; -1; -1; } // 34

This is your invisible "Point of View" from your cockpit and by altering any of the 3 red values your view goes up, down, left, right or forward or back in your modded ship. Negative values like -xxx is the opposite to the normal value, like one shifts you forward in your seat, the negative one shifts your seat in the cockpit backwards.

Once flying in the X Universe with your new ship and you have gotten rid of your visible ship edges in your view, further fine tune your view by looking left and right in your cockpit with the NumPad keys 4 and 6 until you are satisfied.

Cheers

[DeadlyDa]

Yes, simply moving the reference body (940) will move your point of view. However, it also assumes you want the center of the ship to spawn at the same location.

Using the 940 reference body as your view point works for simple ships. However for complex models, or if you simply want to create a cockpit body part that can be reused, and which has a cockpit viewpoint centered where you want it, regardless of the placement of the 940 reference body...or if you simply want the centerpoint of your ship to be 0,0,0, and your cockpit view to be somewhere else, you need to create a cockpit body in the same way that Egosoft does. (see my explaination in this thread http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68144 ).

That is what I needed to do for this giant ship I'm playing with...since the "real" cockpit was shifted radically forward and to the side.
[ external image ]

[Tsar_of_Cows]

Am I the only one who thinks that giant ship is totally awsome!? I want it! : (

[DeadlyDa]

Am I the only one who thinks that giant ship is totally awsome!? I want it! : (

Unfortunately, the Protector was my 1st serious 3dMax project, and it was really just intended to be a learning expierence. To be honest, it is not really the right type of ship for X2, and I made no attempt to "balance" it with respect to gameplay (I mean, sheesh...28 guns!)

More to the point, I had to make several major compromises just to get the ship into X2 in the first place. In it's original form, the design of the ship is way too narrow for X2. It was impossible to use standard parts like turrets and docking ports. By the time I scaled it up to where I could place a docking port on the stern...it was a multi-kilometer monster.

Then I had to move the cockpit to the front, since in it's original position (at the rear), half your view point was taken up by the starbord side of the ship.

Finally, the poly count is way too high for any serious flying.

I've since discovered a few ways to reduce the poly count on meshes without destroying the model, and am trying to decide if I should simply restart the Protector project from scratch (altering the geometry, where needed), or pick another model that is more suitable for the X2 universe.

I already have M5's, M4's, M3's, and a pretty sharp looking M6 (if I do say so myself). I would really like to put in a captial ship...but at the moment I'm busy testing out some new scripts I've been working on. (Hey...what's the use of modding, if you don't take a bit of time to play the game!)

Ah well...when it comes to a new M2/M1, you'll just have to be patient. I'm pretty sure something will come alongl

[Tsar_of_Cows]

I like multi Kilometer Monsters! It would be fun for that "Im the king of the Universe" feeling.

Though, it might work better if tall side hull was actually a large flat hull, with the bridge on top of it...


Actually it reminds me alot of the vager (or whatever they were callde) mothership in Homeworld 2. That was a darn cool ship

[private mofo]

r u going to release ur models to the public like me deadlyda

cheers alex

[DeadlyDa]

r u going to release ur models to the public

My mod is available for download. See this link for info and links to the files... http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72388

Tsar_of_Cows said:

Am I the only one who thinks that giant ship is totally awsome!? I want it!

You may have already noticed, but I actually did rebuild the Protector and Sulaco models (from the ground up), and they are both available in the latest version of my mod.

The Protector (now know as the Grendel, named after the monster in Beowulf), is my favorite capital ship.

[Galaxy613]

I hate you all for having 3D Studio Max and being able to use it to make ships, I have to do it the hard-coded way....

j/k, but I still wish there was a non-3DS way to make ships easyly...maybe if I found a way to load parts useing a function in Blitz3D I can make my own editor.... yey for string phaseing! xD But I digress.

[Strawdog]

If the exporter could be written to support GMax too (Discreets free version).... hint subtle F*****G HINT to the developers.... Making ships would be possible for mere mortals without access to a legal copy of Max.

[Burianek]

you can always model your ship in the software of your choice, and then send it to someone with 3dsmax. They can import your model and then export it using the plugin.
if you have a model, and you ask nicely, people will do this for you.
Cheers.

[DeadlyDa]

Burianek said...

...model your ship in the software of your choice, and then send it to someone with 3dsmax.

Good point. In my expierence, people on this forum are generally very helpful.

Assuming you started with a clean Gmax model (or something I can convert easily, like LW), I'd consider it.

'Course, there are RL issues, and my own work to consider...so the main issue is probably how much time it would take to do the textures. Speaking for myself, meshes are pretty easy, but texture work is....Argh

[Aro]

How difficult is it to convert from Lightwave to 3dmax?
And is the library of ship parts some have used available in Lightwave?

Last time I checked I had no clue what all of those numbers were or where they would go..

[private mofo]

cheers

[DeadlyDa]

How difficult is it to convert from Lightwave to 3dmax?

No problem at all, I have a couple of programs that do a good job of translating .lwo into .3ds files.

And is the library of ship parts some have used available in Lightwave?

Ahhhh...now the bad news. There are a couple of MaxScript files available to import X2 .bod files into 3dMax, but obviously they are specific to 3dMax. I suppose there must be a similar "scripting" facility in Lightwave. Perhaps a clever lad or lass could convert?
If someone is interested, our Russion friend RA posted the following link on another site:

http://urquan.nightmail.ru/Altor/ - here two maxscript files, first - for 3dsmax 5, second - for 3dsmax6. - english interface

Hope this helps...