The next game: X2 - The Return (with Interview!)

[Lutzie]

Thanks Abyss. No rush, got more than enough to play as it is.

Ta.

[Xmaestro]

On July 30th 2004, I wrote the following and I was told it was an old issue:

I've been playing games for 20 years and I've been playing X2 for months (started from scratch 4 times). I have very much enjoyed this most pointless of games... Surprisingly, even though there is no point after the game ends, I still find myself playing it and enjoying it. BUT. It would be so much more fun if there WAS a point...

What surprised me the most in this game was how you could do the entire story with just a Nova... What is everything else for?

After the story ends, it's finished. The XUniverse lives but it's dead (undead?).

You can continue the game but there is no point (reminds me of Morrowind...). You can (oooh) get a big ship (I agree with b-b-q who says "carriers are impractical and useless") and destroy sectors but there is no reward, the game doesn't react, there is nothing. All remains the same until you get richer, or get a higher ranking or destroy the entire universe (etc, etc...) but all of these situation provoke no reaction from the game. It is dead to all you do after the main story has ended... You wait, you wish but no. Oh, you may get tougher missions and now you can capture a Xenon K. Oooh. But what for? Get your K and fly it a bit, kill more stuff but there is still nothing "real" happening. No story. No real evolution in the sense that matters most.

I recently went in all Xenon sectors with my Osprey and o'sprayed death to all. Even with 1.4, it was a breeze. What then? Nothing. I even CTDed (crashed to desktop) after the last Xenon installation got destroyed. Oh! I said, finally the game reacted! Not like I wanted but hey. Better than nothing!

So why not add this to the list: make the story MUCH (as in muuuuuch)longer and even more worth playing, and provide a reason to continue the game after the game ends. How? A few have posted elements which could make this possible:

b-b-q says:
More jobs on the bbs, less fluff.

Nyax says:
6) A continuation and resolution of the plot (and it needs to be a hell of a lot longer then the plot in X2)
9) A new race or two that can be found in unexplored space.
19) Events in the universe that actually mirror news stories (i.e. if there's a race you should be able to watch/ take part)

But Trevelvis had the best one when he said:
"All of the above and you get to sleep with Saya Kho"

I could add:
- new sectors (with new possibilities) appear when you reach a certain level or when you activate unexpected triggers.
- Make something happen when you wipe out a race (especially the Xenon) or when anything major is done to the game!
- In Freelancer (which is much less developped and a joke compared to X2, I agree), you had to reach a certain level of expertise to have parts of the story continue. This extended the game. In a game like X2, that can last months and months, you shouldn't be able to finish the game with just 3, 4 millions (to buy and equip 1 Nova) and do the entire plot in just a few days!!! There should be a point, a reason, an incentive in the main story to get 20 stations up and to get AN ENTIRE FLEET of M2 ships!

There should be a point to all the added possibilities Egosoft placed in this game. A point, a purpose is the heart of everything. It's the reason why we move forward and continue what we do! Don't you think this is a most essential element and that it should be part of our wish list for the XPansion? I sure do! Without this, it is just another temporarily fun but pointless game.

That's MY point!

XMaestro
Now back to x2 to find those odd Xenon invasion missions.

Because I was told it was an old issue, I expected Egosoft knew about this most important aspect and would necessarily do something about this first. After all, why would anyone add a game feature without there being a point to it???

Nah. Egosoft just adds a Yaki gun...

You would expect Egosoft notice there is no point in getting ANY of the more advanced guns/features/ships/etc to accomplish the story.

Nah. Bernd is "happy with most of the things that make X2 with maybe just one exception: Cutscenes that involved people were not as good as they should have been."

Cutscenes? CUTSCENES??? That's the one exception you are less happy with??? Wow. How can you miss the point yourself this much. That makes me sad.

Do this: ADD A POINT TO GETTING ANYTHING/EVERYTHING THAT IS PART OF A GAME so that it has a place in the story somehwere, somehow. Example: there SHOULD be a need to get a fleet of M2 ships. This would consquently justify building an empire to make moeny to afford them. That's just one example.

Then you would win the "game of the century" award, if there was such an award...

Xmaestro

[Lutzie]

Xmaestro you make a very good point indeed. Whilst the improvement of the cutscenes IS an issue, it's an issue of presentation only, not gameplay improvements. The old expression: "You can't polish a turd" springs to mind.
I'm not saying that X2 is a turd in anyway, but there's no point in adding fancy polish to a game that is flawed. Ultimatly in all your gaming time in X2 less than 1% of that time will involve cutscenes.

I stopped playing months ago, mainly due to the fact that there was no "threat" to the game, nor any rewards at all. Even with the 1.4 patch the game was still pointless. Yes, a lot more atmosphere was added to the game, with the addition of Sector patrols and the Universe Traders etc, however it was still ultimatly pointless. You could cruise the galaxy in an M6 and never fear death, even from KM3s, and the only way way to face dying was to go looking for it in a Khaak sector.

However, if say when you hit 10million credits a sector was randomly invaded, ala PE, by the Xenon, you'd have a threat to clear, and a sector to rebuild. If the Khaak were more concentrated on specific targets rather than random floating in the universe, there would be a need to be worried. The game would be more interesting if the Khaak constantly attacked a target until it was destroyed. Not just ships, but stations too. It'd also help if they attacked with more than scout ships supported by 1 fighter.

Also the combat itself is utter flawed. Stations are indestructible to anything other than a Corvette or Destroyer. Shields play a MUCH too large part in the game, and the recharge rate is ludicriously high. A fighter SHOULD have a chance against a destroyer, but there isn't one, unless you want to tear it apart with Mass Drivers. The Khaak fighters having beams is overblaanced, the massive gaps between M5 to M4 to M3 is massivly underbalanced. As I said, a fighter should have a chance against a destroyer, an M5 should be able to take out an M3.

Life is only worth living if it can be taken away, and baring 2 accidents I've never died in X2.

[Xmaestro]

Thanks Lutzie for replying! For someone who "stopped playing months ago", you sure do participate a lot in the forums!

(...) however it was still ultimatly pointless.

I see you get my point. Others seem to see it as well. I wonder why no one else posted a reply or why none of the Egosoft people that visit this forum replied... Are they they simply not aware of the most important problem in X2? Can't be. Maybe they just don't want to be confronted about it... Better to just add a Yaki gun ... and hope no one notices there's no point in adding that gun (or any other game feature) if the story hasn't changed to make them essential...

Oh and if Egosoft's reply is: many people enjoy the game without the story, I'll say that's only because the story isn't all-encompassing enough to include all game features. Oh and MOST people that play games with a single player story play them FOR the single player story... In case the Egosoft team didn't know. Change the story to make all game features relevant and you'll have such a winner, you won't be able to thank me enough.

Should I post this topic as a new thread to get their attention? Not sure if they read additional posts to old threads like this one...

Xmaestro

[Papageno]

BTW, I haven't read through every post in this thread, but will there be a U.S. publisher for X2: The Return?

[Snickly]

Thanks Lutzie for replying! For someone who "stopped playing months ago", you sure do participate a lot in the forums!

(...) however it was still ultimatly pointless.

I see you get my point. Others seem to see it as well. I wonder why no one else posted a reply or why none of the Egosoft people that visit this forum replied... Are they they simply not aware of the most important problem in X2? Can't be. Maybe they just don't want to be confronted about it... Better to just add a Yaki gun ... and hope no one notices there's no point in adding that gun (or any other game feature) if the story hasn't changed to make them essential...

Oh and if Egosoft's reply is: many people enjoy the game without the story, I'll say that's only because the story isn't all-encompassing enough to include all game features. Oh and MOST people that play games with a single player story play them FOR the single player story... In case the Egosoft team didn't know. Change the story to make all game features relevant and you'll have such a winner, you won't be able to thank me enough.

Xmaestro

Maestro - fantastic

It´s as if you read my thoughts, I also hope that something be done in this direction to keep the game much more alive after the storyline has finished.
Great ideas there, thanks

[Lutzie]

Thanks Lutzie for replying! For someone who "stopped playing months ago", you sure do participate a lot in the forums!

Thanks! It's because I feel that X has a lot of potential, and I *know* that Egosoft pay attention to their fans. There's games I love more that I don't bother with like X, as I know that Egosoft are dedicated to their fans.

I see you get my point. Others seem to see it as well. I wonder why no one else posted a reply or why none of the Egosoft people that visit this forum replied...

Many people won't reply because of NDA, many won't reply as they can't be bothered, many won't reply as they already agree, and Egosoft may not reply as they'd like to keep some secrets in store...

Better to just add a Yaki gun ... and hope no one notices there's no point in adding that gun (or any other game feature) if the story hasn't changed to make them essential...

Don't forget, the Yaki gun is only one new thing, just a snippet we've been told about to whet our appitites. Also, even the plot isn't the most important thing, it's GAMEPLAY. One of my fave games is MechAssault on the xbox. The plot is so dire it's laughable, but it has gameplay. X2:TR needs to challenge the player on more than one aspect and reward them for these challenges. Some of the challenges should be unavoidable, some optional. Think about X2, it had both of these, but no rewards, except money, which was very easy to make anyway.
Death also needs to be a real threat.

Change the story to make all game features relevant and you'll have such a winner, you won't be able to thank me enough.

A good idea. A plot line of "We need to develope a weapon against the Khaak" or "A Khaak destroyer has invaded BHS" or similar would be good. X2 is suffering from Freelancer Syndrome, all the missions are the same. OK, they're not quite the same, but the reward is. All X2 is is:
Money > New Ship > Mission > Money > New Ship > Same Mission
And that's it. More variety.
However I'm a firm believer that Egosoft won't fail to deliver. I sincerly believe that X2 was a bit of a test bed TBH...

Should I post this topic as a new thread to get their attention? Not sure if they read additional posts to old threads like this one...

I think they do read this thread still, but it can't hurt to start a new thread. The mods won't lock it I doubt.

[mejobloggs]

X2 is suffering from Freelancer Syndrome, all the missions are the same. OK, they're not quite the same, but the reward is. All X2 is is:
Money > New Ship > Mission > Money > New Ship > Same Mission
And that's it. More variety.

I totally agree here. There definately needs to be more variety. I think there should be some optional, very hard missions that give you special equipment, that can not be bought in the game etc.

[warpedone]

X2 is suffering from Freelancer Syndrome, all the missions are the same. OK, they're not quite the same, but the reward is. All X2 is is:
Money > New Ship > Mission > Money > New Ship > Same Mission
And that's it. More variety.

I totally agree here. There definately needs to be more variety. I think there should be some optional, very hard missions that give you special equipment, that can not be bought in the game etc.

Like the cloaking device in Elite? I've heard that there's provision in X2 already for the "camouflage device" and "gateless jumpdrive", but I presume these didn't make the cut because of balancing/changes in the story..

[Lutzie]

Not just a cloaking device though. There's lots they could do.

Torpedos for example: About the speed of a Hornet, massivly reduced turning ratio, make it able to withstand a few shots before exploding, and give it the strength of about 4 Hornets.

Heavy Mass Driver Ammo: Same as MD ammo, but does triple damage

Ship Chemical Coating: Stops HEN.

Autoscanner: Same as a mineral scanner, but the computer automatically scans all asteroids in range.

Lasers: I'll not even start on new lasers/primary weapons, as the list of IMMENSE.

ECM: Makes AI unable/less-able to lock on with missiles.

Flare/decoy/countermeasures: For said missiles

Cloak: The "kingon style", makes you invisible, but you can't fire when cloaked. Also, it when decloaking all your energy levels should be reset to zero.

EMP Missiles: If this hits a ship it cuts it's engines out for 8-12 seconds. Handy for hunting prey.


And that is just off the top of my head...

And seriously, the weapons list I could go on for AGES... X2 only really has 4 weapons: Mass Driver, Ion D, "Splash/Wave" weapons (PSG) and "Blaster" weapons (IRE, PAC, HEPT, PPC)

Missiles are no different. "The more poweul it is the slower it is".

Egosoft make a great trading game, but for a fighting game they need to go back to a school for a little while.

[warpedone]

Isn't there going to be an EMP weapon in the Return? I seem to remember reading this somewhere... I think that Egosoft are aware that the fighting side of the equation was perhaps a little lacking, which you can tell from the new weapons we know of and the new ships previewed. Whilst more elobarate customisation of the ships would be nice I wouldn't like other aspects to lose out because of it - I'm hoping for station upgrades and more tradable wares...

[Papageno]

I repeat my question-- any U.S. publisher yet? And is the game going to be an expansion or a standalone game? (apologies if that last one has already been answered).

[Noahthez]

Hi,

I was just wondering if anyone know a possitive release date for X2TR? I have heard 2 or 3 different ones. And is there anyway to set it up so your freighter will get resorces from your own factories in X2TT? It just doesn't seem to work for me without me doing it myself and get irritating when I am trying to earn money capturing ships.

[CBJ]

I repeat my question-- any U.S. publisher yet?

The Enlight website mentions X² - The Return, so it is probably safe to say that the answer to that is "yes".

I was just wondering if anyone know a possitive release date for X2TR?

The answer is the same as always: if a definite release date were known then you would see it plastered all over the news page and in these sticky threads.

Yes, some of the scripts in the Bonus Plug-in pack provide this kind of functionality. Register your game by entering the registration code into your [url=http://forum.egosoft.com/profile.php?mode=editprofile][b]Fo[/b]rum[b]Pr[/b]ofile[/url] and the Bonus Plug-ins will be available to you on the Downloads page.

[Noahthez]

Yes, some of the scripts in the Bonus Plug-in pack provide this kind of functionality. Register your game by entering the registration code into your ForumProfile and the Bonus Plug-ins will be available to you on the Downloads page.

It would be nice to be able to do so but I am currently deployed with the army and have no access to the code. I have e-mailed support a-couple of times to see if there is a way to get some help but no responce. I will not have access to that code for 7 more months.

[Reverend]

Hello everyone, I am new here. I have been spending about two years and bought about four games trying to find the 'magic' game where I can contruct the mod Ive always wanted.
A few serious questions, please.
Does whoever work here think that the space for a 'cloaking device' as mentioned can be left open to modding? How many playable races can one implement- how many A.I ones?
I have read all the previous posts, yet I still ask, can it be somehow left open to modding, for the possibility for a LAN connection game at least, if not internet one, ran by the user solely at their expense (without violating the EULA in any way, shape, or fashion)?

I have been attempting to make a continuous space Star Trek mod for some time now, including making mods for at least three games now, always disappointed because they have multiplayer, you can customize/replace ships, weapons, etc., but no living persistant universe.... just game after game of 'operational engagements'. That is fine, space combat is an very exhilarating concept.... but where do we go after the mission? Nowhere, but back to the DROLL mission select screen.
So lifeless. Finally, it seems I found here what I have been looking for, a place to create a living breathing universe, where one can travel when they want, where they want, and do anything they want, basically.
I am willing to go as far as necessary to assist and support, even funding, anything, to see these things implemented.
A end-user ran custom server (see Neverwinter Nights for example) would NOT detract nor interfere from X's original plan, as I wouldn't be charging anyone, no advertising, just claiming idea concept- bragging rights if you will. It would allow a whole new realm of sales to this product here in the United States as well as elsewhere, as we could connect to one another on our own time, not Egosoft’s or Enlight’s, and would be completely at own risk, as it wouldn't be supported by either party.... but would damn well be thanked for regardless, that much is certain.

I do not intend to ruffle anyone's feathers, but ask (demand?:))to be forwarded to the proper person to speak with about this, I'd even be willing to start my own company just to be able to fund it if necessary.
Anyone else here have interest with this?
Best part, if such a platform were created, it wouldn’t have to stop with a Star Trek mod(s), but could encompass other genres, such as Andromeda, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5...... several others come to mind, or completely original ones.
Again, I implore whoever is here to consider this, or forward me to whoever I can implore next, this is only my first shot:). I can guarantee that such a concept in implementation would not interfere with Eosoft's vision, just as NWN's persistant world capacity does not with Bioware. They claim no responsibility whatsoever to custom online worlds, yet those things probably attract more or as many customers as does the original campaign itself! I love the original campaign, but the online ones are fun too- they aren’t MMORPG's, which I dislike, they have their own life, because people go there because they want to, not because they are forced to- its not the original setting- its at their own risk and desire.

Thank you again for this space, the opportunity to kind-heartedly challenge you here. Please respond here or privately, all responses appreciated greatly.

[CBJ]

The first thing you need to do is to register your game by entering the registration code into your [url=http://forum.egosoft.com/profile.php?mode=editprofile][b]Fo[/b]rum[b]Pr[/b]ofile[/url]. The second thing you need to do, if you want to discuss modding, is post in the Scripts and Modding forum.

One thing though: "modding" the game to provide multi-player support is simply not going to happen. There is a multi-player game called Online Universe planned for the future, but this isn't going to happen soon and meanwhile there is no multi-player code in the game that would make a "mod" for it possible.

[Reverend]

I do not have a code to enter, as I havent bought this game yet, sorry. Is Online Universe a game proposed to be built by Eosoft? One set of games is conpletely single player, will this Online Universe be only multiplayer, as a MMORPG? Drat, don't suppose one can have their cake and eat it too.

[CBJ]

Seems a bit odd to want to mod a game you don't even have. Yes, Online Universe is an Egosoft project but it is still on the back-burner, partly for financial reasons as you will see if you read the various interviews with Bernd that are kicking around. Yes, the proposed game is an MMOG, partly because the game universe is far too processor-intensive to provide a pracitical basis for a locally-hosted multi-player game.

[Reverend]

I know it sounds wacky that I want to mod a game I don't have, as I stated before, I have bought several that I was lead to believe could do what I sought, but turned out impossible. The continuous space universe you have here, a seamless giant area one can travel in freely is exactly what others did not have.... they had multiplayer capacities, but it was all single-operational-engagements. Combat is great, but not all I wanted to do. Criminey, I am in a catch-22! You have exactly the platform I have been seeking, but no MP capacities.
Single player is grand, but I wanted to be able to run with a few pals and my spouse too on occasion. I have a second computer that is great for a server, I have ran a few successfully on it already, and wouldnt be too much trouble for me... just sits there anyhow.
I apologize for my tenacity, I am not attempting to tick you off, nor insinuate these (this) product isn't good enough, it seems almost dreamy.
I am just beyond frustration at this point, and trying so hard to get this little project going; if I ever get such going, I believe my little ideas coud draw interest for said product.
Do you, CBJ, think there are any options regarding this? I am sorry if I am aggrevating you, I appreciate your responses. Really, I will probrobly buy this game, and just perform my total conversion mod in single player, host it, and see if anyone else wants it too.
Any further thoughts or ideas, don't hesitate.
Thanks for the space.