Torpedoes are the defintion of anti-fun

[vvvvvvvv]

Dodging things sounds great until

I have never been blown up by a torpedo in this game. By other missiles, yes, but then you learn that countermeasures exist and taking distance is an option. higher damage missiles tend to have lower resistance to flares. There's also warning playing when missile is locked on.

Also... make sure you have good engines on your ship. Asp should not be a slow ship.

Thanks for the feedback. This is something we're actively looking into for a future update.

Would be nice to have missiles targetable and visible on radar.

[Gergin]

One other thing about Torpedoes is that their maneuverability is way out of line with their encyclopedia entry. A Heavy Torpedo per the Encyclopedia has a max turn/pitch rate of 0.3°/s but they can do a 90° course correction in about 5 seconds.
Lights are listed as 1°/s but are also *way* more agile than that.

Just to sanity check, I was curious if this agility was frame rate dependent and it doesn't look like it at least when setting a frame rate limit via the Display Options.

I do find it odd that others are reporting never having a problem with these weapons while they are absolutely the #1 source of my S ship deaths. Unsure what's driving the disparity in experiences.

[vvvvvvvv]

I do find it odd that others are reporting never having a problem with these weapons while they are absolutely the #1 source of my S ship deaths. Unsure what's driving the disparity in experiences.

Are you SURE those are torpedoes? And there are no mods involved?

Because the only factions that spam missiles are VIG and SCA in Moo Kyo/etc sectors. Both can dismantle L ships with a small swarm. But in S ship you can outmaneuver them. While you're being chased you hear audio warning. There ARE dangerous missiles, but they're not torpedoes. Smart missiles or swarm missiles.

Now I do admit flying ships with purple upgrades. That usually means 500+ m/s flight speed. But boost should still be available even on stock ships with no shipmod research.

[Gergin]

I do find it odd that others are reporting never having a problem with these weapons while they are absolutely the #1 source of my S ship deaths. Unsure what's driving the disparity in experiences.

Are you SURE those are torpedoes? And there are no mods involved?

Because the only factions that spam missiles are VIG and SCA in Moo Kyo/etc sectors. Both can dismantle L ships with a small swarm. But in S ship you can outmaneuver them. While you're being chased you hear audio warning. There ARE dangerous missiles, but they're not torpedoes. Smart missiles or swarm missiles.

Now I do admit flying ships with purple upgrades. That usually means 500+ m/s flight speed. But boost should still be available even on stock ships with no shipmod research.

I have almost 1000 hours in the game, they're torpedoes and this has been an issue for years. I'm just finally frustrated enough to ask something be done.
This is 100% vanilla, no mods at all.

[EGO_Aut]

I do find it odd that others are reporting never having a problem with these weapons while they are absolutely the #1 source of my S ship deaths. Unsure what's driving the disparity in experiences.

Are you SURE those are torpedoes? And there are no mods involved?

Now I do admit flying ships with purple upgrades. That usually means 500+ m/s flight speed. But boost should still be available even on stock ships with no shipmod research.

I have almost 1000 hours in the game, they're torpedoes and this has been an issue for years. I'm just finally frustrated enough to ask something be done.
This is 100% vanilla, no mods at all.

I confirm that the torpedoes are bugged in "high attention" mode. They kill friendly ships. I tested it yesterday again.
Ragnos28 made some Videos about it.
https://youtu.be/YA87UYvrg6Q?si=cij7fP-VB37Qmeea
https://youtu.be/XKRGN1qCRBM?si=hjlB9wjLfoywxvvm

[LameFox]

That doesn't surprise me at all, although I don't think it's the issue the OP is having?

And curiously, the torpedoes in the video behave more like I experience WRT speed and turning. Not that many in the video turn, but when they do, it's nothing amazing.

That problem seems to be more an issue of ships generally not caring much about a clear line of fire, being totally unaware of projectiles, and the torpedo having a large AOE. It was even worse in the beta for the torpedo changes: they'd bomb their own carrier by firing as soon as they left the tubes (they may still if deployed at close ranges?). Unless they can get them to fly and fire in formation, maybe the easiest way to solve that is for the weapon not to arm itself right away—and for fighters to PLEASE FINALLY STOP RAMMING TARGETS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

[Gergin]

That doesn't surprise me at all, although I don't think it's the issue the OP is having?

And curiously, the torpedoes in the video behave more like I experience WRT speed and turning. Not that many in the video turn, but when they do, it's nothing amazing.

That problem seems to be more an issue of ships generally not caring much about a clear line of fire, being totally unaware of projectiles, and the torpedo having a large AOE. It was even worse in the beta for the torpedo changes: they'd bomb their own carrier by firing as soon as they left the tubes (they may still if deployed at close ranges?). Unless they can get them to fly and fire in formation, maybe the easiest way to solve that is for the weapon not to arm itself right away—and for fighters to PLEASE FINALLY STOP RAMMING TARGETS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

Yeah...parking behind a station and having a whole wing of enemy fighters gleefully slam into the other side of it while their wingmen slam Torpedoes into the station and blow their allies up...

Not the problem I'm talking about with Torpedoes but definitely *A* problem. Like you say, Fighters really need to stop just slamming straight into things.

[Ragnos28]

It was even worse in the beta for the torpedo changes: they'd bomb their own carrier by firing as soon as they left the tubes (they may still if deployed at close ranges?). Unless they can get them to fly and fire in formation, maybe the easiest way to solve that is for the weapon not to arm itself right away—and for fighters to PLEASE FINALLY STOP RAMMING TARGETS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS.

Yeah, learned the hard way not to launch bombers from carriers when the hostile K is at 14 km or so, because they will blow themselfs up, carriers with insta launch also suffer from this. Find it best either to engage hostile capitals as soon as they enter the bombard 40 km range, or take some distance with the carrier in case the K do their clasic "travel drive on top" maneuver, before launching the bombers, I think 25 km would be best.
On that issue, I believe bombers should have a default "fly to" order outside the carrier, then proceeded with the attack order, fighters launching from Raptors have this to some extent, but carriers with launch tubes also need it.

As for the issue of S bombers slaming their targets, that was somewhat alleviated after beta: https://youtu.be/EIbLNbimHn0?t=924 , but the "lingering near the target capital while under fire from graviton turrets" behavior is alive and well.

Now on topic, I think the issue Gergin is having is the fact that torpedoes keep the momentum of the ship firing them, and if a Peregrine fire a torpedo at high speed or travel drive, if the player fighter is in the way, is too fast to get a missile warning, or to see it coming at you.
However, if the "momentum keeping" feature is removed, we lose the effectiveness of our own bombers, because there is no way a heavy torpedo with a speed of 36 m/s (even a light torpedo, that has 100 m/s) will ever catch a xenon K moving at 134 m/s, unless fired ahead, like some sort of mobile mine.

[GCU Grey Area]

Now on topic, I think the issue Gergin is having is the fact that torpedoes keep the momentum of the ship firing them, and if a Peregrine fire a torpedo at high speed or travel drive, if the player fighter is in the way, is too fast to get a missile warning, or to see it coming at you.

That seems unlikely. All missiles (indeed shots from all weapons) keep the momentum from the ship that fired them. If it were simply a torpedo's speed that prevented a warning being given, or being able to see it approach, this would occur with every missile (or bullet) too but to a much greater extent. Most of them are considerably faster than torpedoes.

[Ragnos28]

Now on topic, I think the issue Gergin is having is the fact that torpedoes keep the momentum of the ship firing them, and if a Peregrine fire a torpedo at high speed or travel drive, if the player fighter is in the way, is too fast to get a missile warning, or to see it coming at you.

That seems unlikely. All missiles (indeed shots from all weapons) keep the momentum from the ship that fired them. If it were simply a torpedo's speed that prevented a warning being given, or being able to see it approach, this would occur with every missile (or bullet) too but to a much greater extent. Most of them are considerably faster than torpedoes.

Now, it did not happened to me exactly, but I recall seeing YT clip with it happening, so I know for a fact that it CAN happen. Was something like...what kill me, possible bug?...and I was able to point out...see that blue line at time stamp X:XX, that was a torpedo.
I don't know for a fact if all missile have the "keep momentum of the ship firing" feature, mainly because only torpedoes have enough dmg for a GG in fighter, all other missile dmg can sting, but a Game Over screen is not likely to occur, so most do not notice a missile hit. And I tend to use only heavy smart missiles for my interceptors, and those have a 170 m/s speed, and did not seem to keep the momentum of the ships firing them.
I'l check some of my clips with missile tests, to see if I can find some relevant examples to show.

[Ragnos28]

Hmm, from a test 3 years ago: https://youtu.be/TqjpQg3b4Uc?t=279 with heavy cluster, seem that indeed non torpedo missiles also keep the momentum of the ships firing them, as heavy cluster also share the heavy torpedo 36 m/s speed, and they show good speed towards the target in the clip.
But, I don't know if this is a feature for all missiles or just the slow ones, maybe a dev can aswer that.

[GCU Grey Area]

I don't know for a fact if all missile have the "keep momentum of the ship firing" feature...

Pretty certain that is the case. I use a lot of different missiles when flying S fighters. S ship missile bay commonly holds ~20 missiles. That doesn't last long in a protracted engagement, so I hoover up ammo from the battlefield to rearm. To this end I often fit 2 different launchers to my ship (1 dumbfire & 1 tracking) so my missile bay doesn't end up clogged with unusable missiles. As a consequence I have direct personal experience with every missile in the game. None of them have ever been dropped behind my ship because it was going faster than the listed speed for the missile. This is frequently the case since I almost always boost-launch my missiles to make them more effective.

[Ragnos28]

None of them have ever been dropped behind my ship because it was going faster than the listed speed for the missile.

Indeed, that seem to confirm the momentum keeping hypothesis.
So, all missile keep momentum, but only torpedoes "sting" the player flying an S/M fighter, because of high dmg.
Well, I imagine that a hostile M ship flying at 500 m/s, will launch a 500 m/s torpedo, that is not easy to avoid in a fighter, especialy if you are distracted by dogfighting, and the launch happen in close range.
Not ideal to have this happen, but like I said, I think messing with that, can cause our own bombers to lose effectivness, and I would not be a fan of that.

[Gergin]

None of them have ever been dropped behind my ship because it was going faster than the listed speed for the missile.

Indeed, that seem to confirm the momentum keeping hypothesis.
So, all missile keep momentum, but only torpedoes "sting" the player flying an S/M fighter, because of high dmg.
Well, I imagine that a hostile M ship flying at 500 m/s, will launch a 500 m/s torpedo, that is not easy to avoid in a fighter, especialy if you are distracted by dogfighting, and the launch happen in close range.
Not ideal to have this happen, but like I said, I think messing with that, can cause our own bombers to lose effectivness, and I would not be a fan of that.

The issue with Heavy Torpedoes is that they don't really seem to lose any speed over time and they last 3 minutes. So for 3 minutes after they get launched at speed, they zip around the battlefield at potentially hundreds of m/s and can 1 shot any S ship you're flying. Sure their agility isn't great but you're basically gambling the entire time. About the only "answer" we have is to disengage from the fight and put a station between you and the battlefield and then just wait for the Torpedoes to hit it.

There's a lot of potential ways to make this better without impacting Torpedoes effectiveness against their intended target. I'm also not convinced Torpedoes are even working as intended right now. Their listed turn rate in the Encyclopedia is like 1/100 of their actual rate. Only a dev can provide insight on that.

[Ragnos28]

The issue with Heavy Torpedoes is that they don't really seem to lose any speed over time and they last 3 minutes. So for 3 minutes after they get launched at speed, they zip around the battlefield at potentially hundreds of m/s and can 1 shot any S ship you're flying. Sure their agility isn't great but you're basically gambling the entire time. About the only "answer" we have is to disengage from the fight and put a station between you and the battlefield and then just wait for the Torpedoes to hit it.

My days flying a personal fighter are way behind me, I think my current save is 3 years old ,but I don't recall torpedoes chasing me all over the battlefield.
The only circumstance I can see a torpedo hiting me while in a fighter, is having one fired at high speed, in close proximity, and even then, I don't recall being hit by one in 5.579 hours, but like I said, I don't fly personal ships much.

[S!rAssassin]

IMO, S-ships and M-turrets should use light missiles and torpedoes only. Heavy ones should be used on M-ships and L-turrets only. Missiles should be instaled on ship by installing pack of it on hardpoint without ship's internal storage. Pack count from one powerful missile up to dozen of fast and weak dumbfire missiles, wich can be fired very quickly. Torpedoes should be mounted only by one. Turret capacity shouldn't be large on M, but L turrets should be large enough.

Overall, missiles and torpedoes should be more deadly, but ship target computer should be able to mark direction of incoming missile, hightlight it on gravidar and lock weapons on it. Light and fast missiles should be used to intercept enemy missiles and torpedoes.

L torpedo turrets should be exist on L military ships as alternative to plasma.

[Casishur]

The standard M guns on ships have become useless against torpedoes or missiles because they fire too slowly and react far too slowly.

We need fast-rotating, rapid-fire guns at short range that are designed for this purpose.
Point Defense System (PDC) that exclusively shoots down missiles and torpedoes.

I don't understand why something so essential for ships larger than size M has been omitted.

S ships should only be able to carry torpedoes with the bomber tag,
and only in small quantities.

[GCU Grey Area]

We need fast-rotating, rapid-fire guns at short range that are designed for this purpose.
Point Defense System (PDC) that exclusively shoots down missiles and torpedoes.

M Beam turrets fit that description & can be set to 'shoot only missiles'. On L/XL ships I tend to have at least one beam turret group configured that way, usually those nearest to the engines. On M ships I set my anti-missile turret(s) to 'shoot missiles first' instead. I find missiles comparatively easy to evade in an M ship so there's no need for them to shoot missiles exclusively.