America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

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clakclak
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America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

The hostilities between America and Venezuela are intensifying. I specifically am using this way of phrasing it, because calling it a war would be very wrong at least as of writing this.

However America has seized a tanker off the coast of Venezuela.
Donald Trump wrote:We've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, a large one... the largest one ever seized actually.
Fighter jets were also reported in the area ealier on today.

This comes after controversial strikes on alleged drug trafficking boats in the recent weeks.

It also comes shortly after American lawmakers had indicated that a regime change in Venezuela might be imminent and to quote U.S. representative Maria Salazar, such a change would be "a field day" for American oil companies, as Venezuela holds the largest oil reserves in the world, which America hopes to develop after a hypothetical regime change.

(Edit: Edited source to the quote of Maria Salazar and added quote of Donald Trump regarding the seized tanker.)
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Falcrack »

This is stupid and will end badly for the US, despite any short term military victories it may have. I'm not a fan of Maduro, but the people of Venezuela should have the ultimate responsibility for replacing their leader if they wish it. And I do not trust Trump to install a replacement who is any better.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by felter »

This is going to get fun, but not in a good way. What America has done is 100% piracy, illegal in every country on the planet, I would imagine. Now comes the fun part, what does those every other country do about it as far as I see it we have no other option than announcing sanctions against the US of A, we cannot in good conscience bring sanctions against the like of Putin and Russia for their actions against Ukraine and then turn around and go yeah it's okay for America to do those things as I said we have no other option than sanctions and freezing all of Trumps foreign assets until he stands accountable for his actions. Right now I imagine every country's leaders have their heads in their hands going, what the **** does this a**hole think he is doing.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

Nobody will sanction America over Venezuela. America gave other countries more than enough deniability by saying they were just stopping a sanctioned tanker. Don't forget that the overwhelming amount of countries do not even consider Maduro a legitimate ruler (rightfully so).

EDIT: Also, apparently the tanker was owned by a Russian oligarch, according to the American Treasury. So this may have been an action against Russia? I can't say that I understand what is going on here anymore.
[...]The ship — known as Adisa in 2022 — is among the vessels controlled by sanctioned Russian oil magnate Viktor Artemov, the Treasury said in a statement.[...]
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by matthewfarmery »

A stupid move, and Trump has confirmed that they will be keeping the oil tanker. But this is straight up piracy. Trump's regime just taken a new low.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Chips »

tbf this is more of a wait rather than jump to conclusions. Certainly rhetoric is disproportional to the instance. It sounds like the ship was sanctioned under Biden's administration, for shipping oil to fund Hezbollah.
The US treasury department sanctioned the Skipper in 2022, CBS reported, for alleged involvement in oil smuggling that generated revenue for the Hezbollah group in Lebanon and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Quds Force in Iran.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp7rkkgvdo

However, doesn't mean you can seize it in international, or other nations waters, unless it's a UN sanction - at least, afaik. Of course, if given permission by the country to which the vessel is flagged (registered) then all fine and dandy. Wouldn't be surprised if political pressure is being applied to do so... however, the reports are frequently saying it uses positional spoofing to indicate it's elsewhere to where it actually is.

As for what the rest of the world should do? Nothing. Legalities are important, respecting rules of law etc. But also, not going DEFCON ONE NOW!!!!! over any and every otherwise minor transgression. Otherwise we'd be in world war 158 by now.

E.g. the UK seized an Iranian tanker passing through British Overseas Territory (Gibraltar) a few years back, as it was in violation of EU sanctions regarding oil shipments (to Syria was it?). In response, Iran boarded a UK flagged vessel outside of their territorial waters with claims it'd been involved in a collision with a fishing boat (zero evidence). It escorted it to it's own ports and held it for over 2 months as leverage. Nothing happened there... diplomacy was the order of the day.
In an interview last week, Joe Biden’s former chief Latin America adviser, Juan González, said that at around the time of last year’s election he had pushed for the US to station two navy destroyers off Venezuela’s coast “and even impose an oil blockade”.

That never happened, but González believed one possible way out of the current crisis might be for the Trump administration to push Maduro into accepting a recall referendum, perhaps in 2027, but threatening “real hardline consequences” such as a blockade if the result was not respected.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... uela-coast

This doesn't appear inconsistent with the generalised US policy towards this fleet of sanctioned tankers shipping oil to fund terror and other organisations, nor towards Venezuela and the Maduro Government. Perhaps conducting it all via social media rather than quietly in the background is though :D

In this instance, I don't think this is outrageous. It's been sanctioned as against the interests of the US -- but in a manner which is in keeping with many western countries. Of course, the risk is that of "if the precedent is set... what next, seize the ship of someone who called Trump fat?" - which is a fair point.

As for keeping the oil? I don't see it as an issue either. It's sanctioned as they're attempting to circumvent something. Of course, should the US be allowed to determine that? If you return the oil to Venezuela and the ship, then there's zero risk from evading sanctions, is there. So... frankly, don't have a problem with it. I completely understand "sets a dangerous precedent..." - maybe. I wouldn't have thought China/Russia/Iran etc would give a flying fig about whether the US had done this before they utilise it, if they desire to. It is, of course, depressing to think US joins them in that sort of behaviour. Whether it starts to empower smaller nations - well, that's where the diplomatic pressure starts. But I don't think the "DEFCON ONE NOW!" response is a good starting point.

Put it this way, the EU / UK seized an Iranian ship evading sanctions. Should the rest of the world responded by instantly sanctioning the UK/EU, regardless of *our* own justifications for doing so?
(Okay, it was transiting *our* waters which differs greatly from being in international waters :D -- but there we go :D )

There is absolutely plenty of time to let this settle a bit and rational heads start to work stuff out, diplomatically, rather than instant DEFCON ONE RESPONSE!* Have to wait and see.



*and yes, DEFCON ONE is the sanctions, freeze Trump assets. Seizing a tanker that's been sanctioned but is not in your territorial waters is not the same as invading another country and committing genocide. Not remotely. Hence why I keep implying GOING FULL ALL IN HARD is not an appropriate, nor rational, response.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

Donald Trump wrote: Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest Armada ever assembled in the History of South America. It will only get bigger, and the shock to them will be like nothing they have ever seen before — Until such time as they return to the United States of America all of the Oil, Land, and other Assets that they previously stole from us. The illegitimate Maduro Regime is using Oil from these stolen Oil Fields to finance themselves, Drug Terrorism, Human Trafficking, Murder, and Kidnapping. For the theft of our Assets, and many other reasons, including Terrorism, Drug Smuggling, and Human Trafficking, the Venezuelan Regime has been designated a FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. Therefore, today, I am ordering A TOTAL AND COMPLETE BLOCKADE OF ALL SANCTIONED OIL TANKERS going into, and out of, Venezuela. The Illegal Aliens and Criminals that the Maduro Regime has sent into the United States during the weak and inept Biden Administration, are being returned to Venezuela at a rapid pace. America will not allow Criminals, Terrorists, or other Countries, to rob, threaten, or harm our Nation and, likewise, will not allow a Hostile Regime to take our Oil, Land, or any other Assets, all of which must be returned to the United States, IMMEDIATELY. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

DONALD J. TRUMP
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Source: https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrum ... 8387416458

Further Trump declared Fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction.

Source: https://www.npr.org/2025/12/15/nx-s1-56 ... mp-cartels
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Chips »

Until such time as they return to the United States of America all of the Oil, Land, and other Assets that they previously stole from us
:gruebel:

He has history of just making things up, so it's not surprising. But "stolen" oil and land from the US? Where abouts? :D

Does have the sound of shady "casus belli" talk though... and to think this started with "illegal drugs flowing from...", which was the justification for building up the ships in the Caribbe... i mean "Gulf of the most Magnificent United States of Trump-o-topia", and has steadily morphed into stolen land and oil and regime change (of which the US has a fine history around the world over the last century, so nothing new - including Venezuela https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ime_change )

Good job Greenland doesn't have oil tbh.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

Chips wrote: Wed, 17. Dec 25, 11:09
Until such time as they return to the United States of America all of the Oil, Land, and other Assets that they previously stole from us
:gruebel:

He has history of just making things up, so it's not surprising. But "stolen" oil and land from the US? Where abouts? :D

[...]
I was wondering the same thing. Apparently he is referring to possessions of American oil companies in Venezuela that were expropriated in 1978.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Chips »

clakclak wrote: Mon, 29. Dec 25, 22:53 US strikes Venezuelan soil in what I'd assume Venezuela will see as a declaration of war.
Unlikely. People maybe forgetting the US bombed some of Iran's nuclear facilities without either side declaring war. While Maduro may make a lot of noise at times (talks a talk), if the US hasn't declared war, then in *my* limited opinion Venezuela there'd only be negatives for Venezuela to do so. Basically, "you have license to remove me!!!".

As with most illegitimate dictators, he's going to be more keen to retain power than give it up for the nation's wellbeing. After all, Dictators have a tendency to die when ousted... but we'll see. Not much news about the alleged strike (drugs loading area is unlikely to be a main port is it, but we'll see as I'm sure there's plenty of scouring of sat footage being undertaken), so leaping to "THIS IS WARRRRR!!!" sounds like an extreme reaction.

Probably complain to UN Security council to start?
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

Chips wrote: Tue, 30. Dec 25, 12:11
clakclak wrote: Mon, 29. Dec 25, 22:53 US strikes Venezuelan soil in what I'd assume Venezuela will see as a declaration of war.
Unlikely. People maybe forgetting the US bombed some of Iran's nuclear facilities without either side declaring war. While Maduro may make a lot of noise at times (talks a talk), if the US hasn't declared war, then in *my* limited opinion Venezuela there'd only be negatives for Venezuela to do so. Basically, "you have license to remove me!!!".

As with most illegitimate dictators, he's going to be more keen to retain power than give it up for the nation's wellbeing. After all, Dictators have a tendency to die when ousted... but we'll see. Not much news about the alleged strike (drugs loading area is unlikely to be a main port is it, but we'll see as I'm sure there's plenty of scouring of sat footage being undertaken), so leaping to "THIS IS WARRRRR!!!" sounds like an extreme reaction.

Probably complain to UN Security council to start?
Note that I did not say Venezuela will declare war on America, but that they may see this as a declaration of war.

You don't need to declare war to consider yourself to be at war. Venezuela will most likely do everything to paint itself as a victim of unjustified aggression while continuing to prepare for furter attacks. For example they have allready begun training up new militias. To quote the BBC The US navy killed 17 in deadly strikes. Now Venezuela is giving civilians guns. Similar preparations are likely to continue and intensify, with Venezuela weighing it's, extremely limited, options for retaliation.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

According to Trump America captured Maduro in a large scale assault on the country.

If they actually did I must admit I am quite impressed with the precision and speed with which they performed the maneuver. The morality of it is something I am sure will need to be discussed further.

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/ve ... uro-trump/
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by mr.WHO »

Best case scenario would be that Wenezuelan parliment would peacefully takover from Maduro loyalist and then Maduro would be brought back for trial.

Still, it's 2026, best case scenarios aren't something to be expected.


Edit:
Seems like according to rumors Maduro will be trialed in US like a common drug lord.


Edit2:

Special Military Operations

Russia: 3+ Years
USA: 3 Hours
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

mr.WHO wrote: Sat, 3. Jan 26, 11:27 [...]


Edit2:

Special Military Operations

Russia: 3+ Years
USA: 3 Hours
Don't jinx it. This seems to have been a pretty clean operation so far, now let's hope it stays that way.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by clakclak »

I don't normally double post but this is developing fast.

Right now it seems as if the Trump administration is convinced that this strike will lead to the end of the rule of the PSUV, as Trump is allready commenting on how Venezuela's oil will be divided between America and China: "There's not going to be a problem, and they're [referring to China] going to get oil. We're going to allow people to have oil, but we can't take a chance after having done this incredible thing last night of letting somebody else take over, where we have to do it again."

The question rather or not the PSUV will simply relinquish power and let others take over simply because Maduro is gone is however still completely open. Clearly they have no answer against American air power, however for a new government to organise the old one still has to abdicate or be toppled and so far that part of the operation still seems dubious at best.

I would assume that America has held some talks with opposition groups, but I have yet to see anyone come out of the woodwork and proclaim themself the new government, at least nobody currently in Venezuela.

Source for Trumps quote about the oil: https://www.npr.org/2026/01/03/g-s1-104 ... conference

Edit: Nevermind the Vice President is apparently already in Russia. Well, I guess time to see who gets to loot which part of Venezuela.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by matthewfarmery »

All the time Congress isn't doing its job. American is full blown dictatorship now. This is the act that pushes things so far, congress might as well dissolve for all the good its doing.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Falcrack »

As much as I dislike Maduro, I dislike Trump much, much more. Canada (or Mexico), can't you do something about this? Trump has clearly set the precedent that if you don't like a foreign leader you can just kidnap them and bring them to your own country for trial.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Vertigo 7 »

remember he already threatened to invade Canada. they've been building up their military for a good bit now to deal with any attacks from the US. As far as Mexico is concerned, i mean... there's nothing they can do. If they try to get assertive with the Nazi regime, that's all the excuse they'll need to kill more brown people.
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Re: America/Venezuela hostilities intensify

Post by Observe »

Falcrack wrote: Sat, 3. Jan 26, 18:01Trump has clearly set the precedent that if you don't like a foreign leader you can just kidnap them and bring them to your own country for trial.
Hardly a precedent. Powerful states have been seizing defeated or vulnerable leaders and hauling them off for judgment (or spectacle) for thousands of years.

The pattern is consistent: Might is right. The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must. International law is not a guardrail against human viciousness. It is but a thin layer of varnish.

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