Envoy ship loadout questions. Different setups needed plz

[lordmuck]

Hey,

Its been a while since I played, and as always, I've totally forgotten everything.

Getting bails...
One thing Iv not really forgotten, but perhaps the %'s is keeping shields at 0 and taking down a hull to about 75%? spam C and if they respond, select surrender. If this does not work the first 3 times (shields 100 to 0, take the hull down to like 50ish? This is where I start to get cloudy.

However, the main point of this post is what weapons and mods I should equip the Envoy with. I am still 4-5 hours in and don't really have anything except 1 Envoy and the 2 Hyperions, empty PHQ (tried timelines and sorry to say I hate it and completed 1 graph so there are some ships out there but I dont fancy that route tbh)
Id like an Envoy loadout for bailouts, as the main weapon is only hull damage and also its current turrets, leaving 2 empty main guns.
1 loadout for assassination xD I was thinking torpedo + that turret that stops engines from 24km? away
1 loadout for daily driver
1 loadout for surface stuff for boarding

and a rough idea of how much money I need, atm I think I got 1mil just farting around in game xD

The current objective of mine is stupid, try to get 6 or more Promethius to bail out to set up as traders. I don't think BUC has miners, as I'd hit them too, but like I said it's been a while and I've nearly forgotten everything. If the responses are on the lines of mid-game stuff ill go to the Boron plot line.

[Feloidea]

Getting S and M ship crews to bail iirc just needs to get hull down to ~70% and then continue tickling the ship which will prompt morale checks (no need to hail and demand surrender, though I believe those also count as morale checks so probably doesn't hurt to do anyway). I'm not sure if damaging them more tilts the morale checks in your favour since I just go get a weapon that deals little to zero damage (ARG Ion Blaster is amazing for this).
It's noteworthy to know having a lower (max) hull value than your target improves your odds of crew bailing out, so if if you want to have a ship specifically meant for making S/M ships bail, you want something that's as squishy as possible (hullwise, load up on shields as much as you want). So a M ship isn't the best at that job aside from having access to the special weapon to disable engines to give you all the time in world. If you're looking for especially flighty targets you can always equip your designated privateer with EMP missiles to disable boost and travelmode on your would-be victims.

[GCU Grey Area]

Here's the loadout & stats for mine: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/72tk47vs ... v5ac3&dl=0

Prefer the Teladi engine for better travel drive performance, since Envoy loses a lot of it's speed while cloaked. Have installed a Vikas engine mod to improve travel speed & reduce charge time.

Main guns are the distortion pulsor & a pair of plasma cannons. Find this combination works well together. Can even hit small targets with plasma cannons if they can't move & also has sufficient firepower to take on capitals up to Xenon K. Could probably take out an I but suspect that depleting 5xXL shields with just a pair of plasma cannons would be an immensely long & tedious process. Have fitted Expediter mods to the plasma cannons to extend range to ~9km (outranges L plasma turrets, handy for station disarmament jobs) & Mistral on the distortion pulsor to improve cooling & rate of fire.

Went with the scalar aperture turrets. Found these to be damn handy for smashing surface elements. Have installed Invader mods to improve damage against such targets.

Chassis mod is Shroud for extra sneakiness & shields have Traction for better regen.

Found this loadout works well for a boarding, particularly when the target is deep inside hostile territory. Being able to immobilise a target without needing to smash it's engines is a game changer - makes extracting captured ships from hostile territory much more viable. Did however need to invest in 3 more Envoys that stay permanently cloaked (disarmed turrets & guns set to an empty weapon group) in order to carry enough marines for well defended targets.

[lordmuck]

Getting S and M ship crews to bail iirc just needs to get hull down to ~70% and then continue tickling the ship which will prompt morale checks

But I still need shields at 0 ye? And thanks for the suggestion perhaps ill setup one of the freebies that came with the hyperion to save some cash as its early for me atm

Here's the loadout & stats for mine: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/72tk47vs ... v5ac3&dl=0

Prefer the Teladi engine for better travel drive performance, since Envoy loses a lot of it's speed while cloaked. Have installed a Vikas engine mod to improve travel speed & reduce charge time.

Main guns are the distortion pulsor & a pair of plasma cannons. Find this combination works well together. Can even hit small targets with plasma cannons if they can't move & also has sufficient firepower to take on capitals up to Xenon K. Could probably take out an I but suspect that depleting 5xXL shields with just a pair of plasma cannons would be an immensely long & tedious process. Have fitted Expediter mods to the plasma cannons to extend range to ~9km (outranges L plasma turrets, handy for station disarmament jobs) & Mistral on the distortion pulsor to improve cooling & rate of fire.

Went with the scalar aperture turrets. Found these to be damn handy for smashing surface elements. Have installed Invader mods to improve damage against such targets.

Chassis mod is Shroud for extra sneakiness & shields have Traction for better regen.

Found this loadout works well for a boarding, particularly when the target is deep inside hostile territory. Being able to immobilise a target without needing to smash it's engines is a game changer - makes extracting captured ships from hostile territory much more viable. Did however need to invest in 3 more Envoys that stay permanently cloaked (disarmed turrets & guns set to an empty weapon group) in order to carry enough marines for well defended targets.

wooooo thats the kinda gameplay I had at the back of my mind for boarding and like a daily driver kinda deal.. Ye! nice one! thanks

As you seem to be enjoying the Envoy stuff and probably have the cash/setup, did you try something like the torpedo setup i mentioned?

[GCU Grey Area]

As you seem to be enjoying the Envoy stuff and probably have the cash/setup, did you try something like the torpedo setup i mentioned?

I adore the Envoy. It's become my main ship for this particular game & I'm having a tremendous amount of fun with it. Have not tried torpedoes. Usually a big fan of torpedoes & in most of my games I fly frigates, in part because they can carry 100 of them. However Envoy's missile bay is quite small (only holds 10 missiles) so reckon it would be too much of an opportunity cost to fit a torpedo launcher in place of one of it's plasma cannons.

[lordmuck]

As you seem to be enjoying the Envoy stuff and probably have the cash/setup, did you try something like the torpedo setup i mentioned?

I adore the Envoy. It's become my main ship for this particular game & I'm having a tremendous amount of fun with it. Have not tried torpedoes. Usually a big fan of torpedoes & in most of my games I fly frigates, in part because they can carry 100 of them. However Envoy's missile bay is quite small (only holds 10 missiles) so reckon it would be too much of an opportunity cost to fit a torpedo launcher in place of one of it's plasma cannons.

Yeah for sure limited storage, I was just thinking ahead once I can have a few Envoys to have 1 just set up for a quick assassination mission or for some pesky K/I and just redock/restock until next time kinda deal a bit of RP

[GCU Grey Area]

Yeah for sure limited storage, I was just thinking ahead once I can have a few Envoys to have 1 just set up for a quick assassination mission or for some pesky K/I and just redock/restock until next time kinda deal a bit of RP

Suspect torpedoes would be more viable with the Scalar main gun. Then fitting a torpedo launcher would only mean losing 1/3 of it's main gun firepower (rather than 1/2) if the missile bay runs dry. Unfortunately Argon's aren't exactly happy with me (have stolen more than a few of their L/XL ships) so can't get hold of the Scalar main beam to test. Have been trying to steal the blueprint from them with the new diplomacy stuff but no luck so far in that regard.

[vvvvvvvv]

Getting bails...
One thing Iv not really forgotten, but perhaps the %'s is keeping shields at 0 and taking down a hull to about 75%? spam C and if they respond, select surrender. If this does not work the first 3 times (shields 100 to 0, take the hull down to like 50ish? This is where I start to get cloudy.

The check runs every 30 seconds while the enemy is under fire, so you can just take hull down to 20%, and keep poking the enemy with a weapon to keep shield low. "Surrender!" is equivalent to shooting the enemy. Asking to surrender is irritating, as it ends with "I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm not talking to you!" game when you spam it often.

It helps to scan the ship first, as captain usually bails after some crew leaves.

Additionally...

For quick bails the best idea is to have a very low hull on your ship. Because somehow the more paper thin your hull, the scarier you are to NPCs. That means the best bailout ships are Pulsar, Asp Raider, and Dragon Raider.

[lordmuck]

Yeah for sure limited storage, I was just thinking ahead once I can have a few Envoys to have 1 just set up for a quick assassination mission or for some pesky K/I and just redock/restock until next time kinda deal a bit of RP

Suspect torpedoes would be more viable with the Scalar main gun. Then fitting a torpedo launcher would only mean losing 1/3 of it's main gun firepower (rather than 1/2) if the missile bay runs dry. Unfortunately Argon's aren't exactly happy with me (have stolen more than a few of their L/XL ships) so can't get hold of the Scalar main beam to test. Have been trying to steal the blueprint from them with the new diplomacy stuff but no luck so far in that regard.

Only they sell it? Im still getting used to who sells what again xD Just got my min rep to 10 was a pia off to buy some stuff from them xD

Getting bails...
One thing Iv not really forgotten, but perhaps the %'s is keeping shields at 0 and taking down a hull to about 75%? spam C and if they respond, select surrender. If this does not work the first 3 times (shields 100 to 0, take the hull down to like 50ish? This is where I start to get cloudy.

The check runs every 30 seconds while the enemy is under fire, so you can just take hull down to 20%, and keep poking the enemy with a weapon to keep shield low. "Surrender!" is equivalent to shooting the enemy. Asking to surrender is irritating, as it ends with "I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm not talking to you!" game when you spam it often.

It helps to scan the ship first, as captain usually bails after some crew leaves.

Additionally...

For quick bails the best idea is to have a very low hull on your ship. Because somehow the more paper thin your hull, the scarier you are to NPCs. That means the best bailout ships are Pulsar, Asp Raider, and Dragon Raider.

Thanks for that ill keep it in mind, I remember I used to keep plinking the enemy for bails before a boarding missing when I was working with very limited stuff at the start.

[flywlyx]

The Envoy’s hull is quite thick(12.8k), so using it to bail out other ships can be challenging. You might want to consider the Grit modification, which can potentially reduce hull strength by up to 40%.

More details about bailing chances:https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... t/mkr3a3k/

Vanilla rolls a bail check once every 30 seconds if the target is below 75% hull and 20% shields.

I'd guess you were unlucky on the RNG per roll, did not keep the shields below 20%, or are underestimating how long it takes per roll.

Exact formula:
Base eject chance is a range of 23-46%: inversely proportional to crew skill
Multiplied by (targetmaxhull) / (mymaxhull), capped to 1.0
Multiplied by (myshieldperc+myhullperc) / (targetshieldperc+targethullperc), capped to 1.0
Reduced to a quarter if attacker is not personally flown by the player
Reduced to a half if target is capital ship
Reduced to a third if target is Xenon

The ideal method:

Damage the ship to 74% hull

Keep tickling its shields to keep them under 20% without damaging the hull again, while using a ship which has a max hull value equal to or less than your target.

[GCU Grey Area]

Only they sell it? Im still getting used to who sells what again xD Just got my min rep to 10 was a pia off to buy some stuff from them xD

Yep, ARG & MIN both sell Envoys but have different kit for them (engines, turrets, main guns). Got good rep with MIN, but currently -29 with ARG (was -30 but then I made the mistake of hunting a Prometheus in Morning Star IV). By the way, mostly got my rep up with MIN by using the new diplomacy feature - MUCH more convenient than flying loops round their handful of stations looking for missions or by trading with those stations, as I've done in previous games.

[lordmuck]

The Envoy’s hull is quite thick(12.8k), so using it to bail out other ships can be challenging. You might want to consider the Grit modification, which can potentially reduce hull strength by up to 40%.

More details about bailing chances:https://www.reddit.com/r/X4Foundations/ ... t/mkr3a3k/

Vanilla rolls a bail check once every 30 seconds if the target is below 75% hull and 20% shields.

I'd guess you were unlucky on the RNG per roll, did not keep the shields below 20%, or are underestimating how long it takes per roll.

Exact formula:
Base eject chance is a range of 23-46%: inversely proportional to crew skill
Multiplied by (targetmaxhull) / (mymaxhull), capped to 1.0
Multiplied by (myshieldperc+myhullperc) / (targetshieldperc+targethullperc), capped to 1.0
Reduced to a quarter if attacker is not personally flown by the player
Reduced to a half if target is capital ship
Reduced to a third if target is Xenon

The ideal method:

Damage the ship to 74% hull

Keep tickling its shields to keep them under 20% without damaging the hull again, while using a ship which has a max hull value equal to or less than your target.

Thank you for this. Currently, the targets in mind are Prometheus's Ill see how I go but from what you have posted Ill probably have to equip a S ship for this.

Only they sell it? Im still getting used to who sells what again xD Just got my min rep to 10 was a pia off to buy some stuff from them xD

Yep, ARG & MIN both sell Envoys but have different kit for them (engines, turrets, main guns). Got good rep with MIN, but currently -29 with ARG (was -30 but then I made the mistake of hunting a Prometheus in Morning Star IV). By the way, mostly got my rep up with MIN by using the new diplomacy feature - MUCH more convenient than flying loops round their handful of stations looking for missions or by trading with those stations, as I've done in previous games.

ROFL I was flying loops xD But did find a blackmarket dude to trade to later on! Why did ARG get pissy about you hunting a BUC ship???

[GCU Grey Area]

Why did ARG get pissy about you hunting a BUC ship???

Not so much that, ARG thoroughly approved of the Prometheus hunt, even thanked me for it while I was hoovering up the bits. Problem was they liked it so much it ruined my perfect -30 rep.

[alt3rn1ty]

I'm still experimenting with loadouts to try and cap a Prometheus, currently ..

Disruptor modded with Annihilator to do a bit of damage (pecking), and hit these damn ships from afar slowing them down in their tracks.
Ion Blasters MKII on the two front normal weapons to massively reduce shields, also Annihilator
Turrets I have gone with Boron Ion Pulse for their good range and to assist slowing down the target aswell as reducing its hull, and applied Expediter to both increasing turret rotation speed.

Also went with Slingshot mod on the Arg engines, for a big boost in strafing.
I went the way of TRI in my current game, so BUC will never be TEM, and Prometheus blueprints cant be acquired, so capping these tough slippery fish is the only way.

[lordmuck]

Why did ARG get pissy about you hunting a BUC ship???

Not so much that, ARG thoroughly approved of the Prometheus hunt, even thanked me for it while I was hoovering up the bits. Problem was they liked it so much it ruined my perfect -30 rep.

pfffff ROFL I understand now xD

I'm still experimenting with loadouts to try and cap a Prometheus, currently ..

Disruptor modded with Annihilator to do a bit of damage (pecking), and hit these damn ships from afar slowing them down in their tracks.
Ion Blasters on the two front normal weapons to massively reduce shields, also Annihilator
Turrets I have gone with Boron Ion Pulse for their good range and to assist slowing down the target aswell as reducing its hull, and applied Expediter to both increasing turret rotation speed.

Also went with Slingshot mod on the Arg engines, for a big boost in strafing.
I went the way of TRI in my current game, so BUC will never be TEM, and Prometheus blueprints cant be acquired, so capping these tough slippery fish is the only way.

Spoiler

Show

but we can steal the BP before you do that plot which iv never done yet, and when you do that plot, do BUC no longer exist? Therefore, unable to steal the bp?
Perhaps put that in a spoiler in case people don't want to know about that yet

Ill keep your loadout in mind too thanks.

[flywlyx]

Thank you for this. Currently, the targets in mind are Prometheus's Ill see how I go but from what you have posted Ill probably have to equip a S ship for this.

For promethus, you might want to use Grit to drop the hull by 10% or use the Cypher which only has 10k hull.

Spoiler

Show

but we can steal the BP before you do that plot which iv never done yet, and when you do that plot, do BUC no longer exist? Therefore, unable to steal the bp?
Perhaps put that in a spoiler in case people don't want to know about that yet

BUC doesn’t have a wharf, which is required to steal blueprints, so you can’t obtain the Prometheus blueprint from them.

[alt3rn1ty]

Spoiler

Show

but we can steal the BP before you do that plot which iv never done yet, and when you do that plot, do BUC no longer exist? Therefore, unable to steal the bp?
Perhaps put that in a spoiler in case people don't want to know about that yet

Spoiler

Show

Didn't realise that about grabbing the BP before events
BUC become TEM, so then you can become freinds + build rep with them, and eventually buy BPs.
I'm actually enjoying the hunt for BUC Prometheus though, so not a bad thing. I've killed many, but only capped one so far and want another.
My next playthrough I'm going to blow up the Apotheosis, as I think having HOP and PAR will give more opportunity for Diplomacy, and TRI end up becoming too strong imho

Ill keep your loadout in mind too thanks.

NP.

[lordmuck]

Thank you for this. Currently, the targets in mind are Prometheus's Ill see how I go but from what you have posted Ill probably have to equip a S ship for this.

For promethus, you might want to use Grit to drop the hull by 10% or use the Cypher which only has 10k hull.

Spoiler

Show

but we can steal the BP before you do that plot which iv never done yet, and when you do that plot, do BUC no longer exist? Therefore, unable to steal the bp?
Perhaps put that in a spoiler in case people don't want to know about that yet

BUC doesn’t have a wharf, which is required to steal blueprints, so you can’t obtain the Prometheus blueprint from them.

Doh forgot that they dont have a shippywharf. Cant stand these plasma weapons tho, never really did and as im running ships without and weapon mods atm as iv still not got all that sorted out im feeling a little missing shots on stationary s xenons xD. Ill keep going tho but i think i may put beams or some other faster rof weapon on the other 2 slots. I may have jumpped the gun at equipping this ship up