Empires without SPPs

[simonnance]

A few days ago i restarted the game. I went from a sizeable interstelar empire to one ship.

I did this for a few reasons:

1. To try out X-Treme dificulty

2. To be 1.4 compliant ready for the patch

3. To start a new empire that was not based on the sole building of SPPs to farm money for expansion

So far it is going well, money from caping has funded 3 station, 2 silicon mines (Heron's Neb and Ringo Moon) and a Crystal Fab (Herron's Neb)

I was wondering if anyone else had forgone the much beaten SPP path and forged a new way from rags to riches.

It would be especialy nice to be able to advise nebs on more than one way to make morey from stations early on!

Anyone?

[CGrand]

Hum i started on mines as well, slow but logical for a mining company

two usefull tips, firstly look at food its farily hard to place food facs that will not make some money

secondly you can make surpsing ammount of money out of very high end fabs, i have a quantom tube fab running in herons nebulla as my second fab i ever bought (finger slipped), which while it took a fair few novas to fund the ship for it, seems to works quite well

a third possible method is go down the drugs route possibly in teladi space, but i have no clear idea how that works, i'm off to try it now

sadly i do now have a fair few SPP, need them for some of the more complex loops, though i think i only have 4 that actually sell to the public but i think 6 odd that are internal to my own loops, so not to bad

i like odd goals, keep it up

(i have a second game based entrily on mining, i'm gonna do nothing else but buy mines and see how far i can get (except for drug running)

[simonnance]

i MAY add SPPs in to support loops, but only as a sealed unit with my crystals going in, and the ECells going out to my fabs.

will see how it goes, might be a neccecary evil in the long run, but only under those conditions!

Food fabs is interesting, there apears to be a shortage of Cahonas, and a huge amount of Argnu beef. Deficiency in Wheat? anyway looks like a good opening for a few Bakeries to me!

Ditto for wheat, unles you want to keep the market clear for you r Cahonas. Or you could put them in other races teritory to supply secondary goods. That may be a bit of a haul though to drag a fact that far that early on.....

Im trying to concentrate and fill the local niches, eventualy funding some OOS (Centaur )

[CGrand]

Food should work well i suspect

Actually watch out for one thing the food market in terms of prices is more or less flat in theory but in practice seems less so

leastways i seem to make more money (slightly) out of soyerys (provided you build beam fac too) than i do out of the others

particualry if you build them in borons space

[twilight_echoes]

for standalones i find soyeries work very well round dukes vision, preachers refuge & emperors wisdom, where all the resources they need can be found cheaply and in abundance.

Teladianium fabs turn a steady profit in boron space - and need only energy. Very good round the new boron frontiers of menelaus paradise.

Nostrop also does very well in teladi space.

in general avoid tier 3 fabs (those which require 3 resources to run) when starting out. Anything which needs only energy to run (tier 1) is likely to be a winner although for return on investment as standalones; they are not as good as tier 2 food fabs.

[Scarecrow]

I think I have 7 SPP's...3 sell to the public.

I set up shop on the 4 entry points to Argon space......trade across the border with the Boron and 'nids. And what ever is over in Elena's Fortune.

All four sectors have loops set up with varying retail items depending on the race on the other side of the Gate.

PE is just now under recontruction......27 mil invested so far (that includes the 2 Centaurs )

[NeckCuttah]

Personally I have only built SPP's to provide my own factories with cheap energy. When they have a surplus, then I sell off the extra. I tried the "SPP in KE" thing and it didn't work too well for me. Prefer silicon mines. After my 4th restart, I focused on building these mines in sectors with known high yield asteroids. Had 4 mines and a jump capable ship. After dotting the universe with a few advanced satellites, I could see where the wafers were needed. Took quite a few jumps but steadily built up my empire. Now running with 10 or so loops. Rolling in the dough, but it does get tedious with all of the micromanaging of 153 (and growing daily) stations. Good luck!

[Unreal2me]

I started my game with a Silicon mine, then Food loops, then higher value equipment fabs. Only build the necessary SPP for my personal use primarly.

My empire so far is made of 90 factories in numerous sectors. I have 2 M2, 1 M1, 2 TL and numerous M6.

I did not want to rely on SPP since i knew it would kill my game overall by not wanting to build more expansive factories. It would have ruined my game am sure.

My home sector is President End which has about 55 fabs, among them is 5 personal SPP and 1 of them is dedicated only to the 7 mines i have in Ore Belt.

So just be a bit patient and you will finally enjoy your hard earned money.

U2

[SpazmNow]

Food shortages are rampant across the universe. Energy is great to run the air conditioning in the factories to keep all the dead bodies that have starved to death nice and cool. Much less smell that way.

I have been messing around with tech fabs, specifically Computer Plants. In the right place they sell like expensive hotcakes. Most of the time it's sold out or *just* starting to build up 8-20 range before it dips or empties again, on average that I've seen anyway. Works good.

[3iff]

I've done the rags to riches journey as a miner - no trading and just 1 factory (not an SPP).

Over the weekend I decided to retry the game as a pirate. My first attempt (some weeks back) went horribly wrong as I couldn't shoot down anything!

So, the rules are...

No trading
No buying ships any I can capture (I can buy TL, M6 when I have the cash)
No mining
No factories
No storyline

I can pick up secret containers, run courier jobs and perform assassinations.

I can buy weapons and equipment as I wish but if I want a nova or dolphin I have to capture one. I can also attack anyone I choose but I have to be careful who I upset as I need to buy equipment...

I started by capturing a few mandalays and busters (upsetting the Argon!) which gave me enough cash to buy enough wasps to target a bayamon. Got one fairly quickly and ran it to a shipyard. Cost a fortune to repair but got it an ion and Gamma IRE (I think). Quickly started capturing orinocos and soon had one fully kitted out. That's what I'm flying now.

I have just completed one game day and have a fully equipped Orinoco, a Bayamon to replace the disco which strayed into Xenon territory, a Dolphin, and a Demeter that got too close to a fight and took offence at my ion disruptor. I have 5 million in cash with a few pirates on their way to the shipyard. Three of my ships have jumpdrives.

I'm looking to get to 20 million or so to get an Elephant as I want the extra hangar space in preference to the cargo space. Then I can get an M6. At that point I can see how much of the universe I can destroy.

Without trading and factories, keeping my race reputation is hard work as it only increases when I buy equipment or energy and if I kill any local pirates. Assassinations are also good for rep but they are difficult to get - and with Split/Paranid ratings at just 2% friendly I can dock but they don't trust me to make hits for them.

Not having to worry about an empire does make for a different game as the focus is on my ship (or the current sector) rater than on the universe. Once I'm operating from a TL this focus will be even stronger.

[Sevren]

I just started the game again about a week ago useing the Massive War Mod and I ended up starting out with an Ore Mine, then my second factory was a Wheat Farm in the wall, then I put a silicon mine down in Paranid space.. right now I'm saveing up for a paranid Crystal Loop in Kingdoms End. The reason I didn't start out with an SPP or don't own one now isn't because I don't want to. Its because with the MWM they cost 1.6 million credits instead of the 200k. I rather like the new price, It prevents me from plopping 20 SPP's down in friendly sectors in my first week of play.

[simonnance]

Food shortages are rampant across the universe. Energy is great to run the air conditioning in the factories to keep all the dead bodies that have starved to death nice and cool. Much less smell that way.

I have been messing around with tech fabs, specifically Computer Plants. In the right place they sell like expensive hotcakes. Most of the time it's sold out or *just* starting to build up 8-20 range before it dips or empties again, on average that I've seen anyway. Works good.

anyone else have any success with the less visilbe trade items, ie computer componets, microchips, warheads, cloth rimes. That type of thing.

I do notice they tend to be out of stock on most stations, and the AI facts that make them are nomaly low on resources.

anyone?

[twilight_echoes]

rimes facts i have 3 on the N/S lines between thuruks pride-->family whi & seizewell and they are always sold out for max price. I had to build wheatfarms to support them. I also have a standalon Wheatfarm buying energy @ 15 with jumps =0 in Montalaar which is always well stocked up in energy and sold out of wheat supplying the surrounding Rimes Facts for max price.

Also a Rimes fact & wheatfarm in emperors wisdom. Same story.

[RJV]

Hi,

I like these ideas. This is still my first game so trying a few different things before I settle. Done a bit of capturing, and I have 2 SPPs - Rolk's Drift and Lucky Planets. The money is coming in but I'm looking for alternatives. I did Silicon Jumpdrive trading early on which got me started, so I think I'll return to a similar arena with Mobile mining.

What I plan to do next though is Ore mining - I know it's not regarded in the same esteem as its more expensive rival, but I have a bit of a soft spot for it. The plan is to start exploiting the secondary resource tree, kicking off with ore then moving in to Teladianium.

Anyone else trodden the secondary resource path?

Cheers.

[simonnance]

@ RJV
in my old game i was realy begining to move in that direction 3 Teladianuim fabs in Lucky Planets, Soya Bean and Husk production in Rolk's Fate, and was looking at Bogas in the Teladi? and Split sectors.

The problem i have whith it early on is it normaly necesitates a spread out empire that requires lots of OOS (specialy once the Khaak turn up). Also you need to haul the fabs a fair way from the shipyards.

@ twilight_echoes

How many Rimes Facts can a Wheatfarm support, is it 1:1 ratio?



Im tempted by a chip plant, specialy as the products are small and light, as well as expensive. maybe a few Pegasuses as sellers? I used to use them for drug running.....

[twilight_echoes]

simmonance wrote:

How many Rimes Facts can a Wheatfarm support, is it 1:1 ratio?

You guessed it!!

The real (huge) benefit of tier 1 & 2 fabs comes when you have a loop, because 5x tier 1 makes more than 1xtier 3 + 1xtier 1. Tier 3's are more profitable *but* as has already been mentioned, there is a huge food shortage in the X-universe which makes tier 3's very impractical to build as standalones in most places.

[MulveyMan]

Using the Sector Planner (can't recall the author right now, but do a search and you'll find it), I noticed that in terms of max profit per hour, Cahoona Bakeries can make more than any other food fab. Haven't tried it yet, but am planning a bunch somewhere (the Sector Planner also lets you determine how much need each sector has for each ware). I'll let you know how they do...

[simonnance]

most places is very true, but there are the rare locations that seem to be flush with food!

for example down around the argon sectors near Omicron Lyre, there seems to be a huge amount of food at both level 1&2, ive seen wheat farms with 1000 in stock, a rarity! And im sure ther are places around like that for onthe races, the paranid certanly seem to have a lot of food producing fabs around......

It is a case of Location, Location, Location! both in terms of supplies and in demand for products.

What i am trying to do in my game is work my way down. So i will build a teir 3 fab to supply the advanced needs, crystals, missiles, mines, and so on. Then if there arent enough resources from the AI fabs, i stick one of mine in to support it, eg a teir 2 food fab (as you said food is short). Once i reach a stage where it chugs away hapily i can move on, posible completing the loop at a later time if i want.

So far, yes i exploiting silicon, mostly because it is a cheap way of getting on the factory ladder and get some stable money coming in, also it gives me a base for any later teir 3 fabs amy of which require silicon.

I must admit, i save a lot of money on transports having only a few, intead of the fleet you need to get a SPP going at full efficiency.

[simonnance]

Using the Sector Planner (can't recall the author right now, but do a search and you'll find it), I noticed that in terms of max profit per hour, Cahoona Bakeries can make more than any other food fab. Haven't tried it yet, but am planning a bunch somewhere (the Sector Planner also lets you determine how much need each sector has for each ware). I'll let you know how they do...

Actualy i get the following results, buying at min price and selling at max for teir 2 fabs

Bofu Chem Lab: 36000cr/hr (costs 973860cr)
Cahona Bakery: 38520cr/hr (costs 908936cr)
Rastar Refinery: 48290cr/hr (costs 844012cr)
Sun Oil Refinery: 48300cr/hr (costs 1103708cr)
Soyery: 51660cr/hr (costs 1038784cr)

Curtusy of Argonopedia and LordSuch's Sector Planner

[frymaster]

i MAY add SPPs in to support loops, but only as a sealed unit with my crystals going in, and the ECells going out to my fabs.

will see how it goes, might be a neccecary evil in the long run, but only under those conditions!

Food fabs is interesting, there apears to be a shortage of Cahonas, and a huge amount of Argnu beef. Deficiency in Wheat? anyway looks like a good opening for a few Bakeries to me!

Ditto for wheat, unles you want to keep the market clear for you r Cahonas. Or you could put them in other races teritory to supply secondary goods. That may be a bit of a haul though to drag a fact that far that early on.....

Im trying to concentrate and fill the local niches, eventualy funding some OOS (Centaur )

one comment I would make is that solo SPPs sell so well because of the huge energy defecit in the economy; thus, if you don't set up SPPs to support your own factories you will, over time, drain more of the economy's supply of energy, slowing down AI production (and the slower they produce, the less they need to buy )

although I don't know how many factories / over what period of time you would begin to see serious effects, mind