X4 Diplomacy Update - Coming 2025!

[thedavid]

Question:

About when will the update come out?

Ok, I know no one really knows at this exact moment other than 2025 but are we looking at a summer release or more like December?

[vvvvvvvv]

Question:

About when will the update come out?

Ok, I know no one really knows at this exact moment other than 2025 but are we looking at a summer release or more like December?

It is supposed to be Q3 2025.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 8304123197

While we go about construction of an embassy maybe we will get the option for Dal to have his own office. Time he moved out Boso's lab.

Thats a good call, I always thought it a bit weird that he set up shop in Boso's tank room, there isnt even a seat for him to chill out in.

I propose to give Dal Busta his own aquarium.

[Nerwesta]

I really hope the reputational dynamics will be improved. If I sell weapon parts to HOP, then my Argon rep should go down in proportion to how much it went up for Argons. The same way that, when China delivers drone parts to Russia, the EU and US are not amused.

There could still be player actions that only have positive reputational effects, like destroying Khaak or Xenon. Or even selling food stuff. But you should not be able to feed weapons and ships to two warring parties, without any reputational impact.

First page and that conflict is already mentioned, one could take a more historical ( with peer-reviewed historians ) conflict just to keep it civil I think, but as you probably know the PRC delivers parts as much at the other side.
Derailing aside, I think it would be nice to have specificities on races, I can imagine Teladi would be more inclined to have a friendly stance as long as profits come. Split may be harder to get something diplomatically, that kind of thing, see how world leaders in Civilization can have their own pattern in diplomacy for example.
Does the player race and own diplomatic ties can be checked to have a much more varied outcome ? Is finishing a plot can scramble the equilibrium already made on diplomacy ?

This could open interesting wars and quests to the already ( and something missing ! ) scripted/static ones.

A lot of questions, it's exciting and I can't wait to see more !

[Raptor34]

Frankly I wouldn't want dynamic reputation like X3FL.
Unless you can bind yourself to a faction, in return for benefits like less FF or similar intangible stuff.

[FatalKeks]

I just hope that diplomacy is not only player driven and that factions have their own dynamic diplomacy with each other.

[Crimsonraziel]

But you should not be able to feed weapons and ships to two warring parties, without any reputational impact.

Given that the entire economy is solely based on war, I absolutely disagree.

[Dygaza]

I really hope this update will let factions to have cease fires between their constant wars, so they have time to build up their fleets. Currently in game's constant warfare is draining their resources so fast that they never have resources to build big fleets. Especially carrier combat is greatly killed by this, as they never really have proper fighters with them. I really wanna see factions fighting with Multiple destroyers and Carrier with atleast 50 ships at bay. Combat should be combination of smaller skirmishes and big battles.

[LandogarX4]

But you should not be able to feed weapons and ships to two warring parties, without any reputational impact.

Given that the entire economy is solely based on war, I absolutely disagree.

You can do that, and be a 'neutral' arms dealer to them. But you should not be treated like the hero of the faction if you supply their enemy with tons of weapons.

[vvvvvvvv]

You can do that, and be a 'neutral' arms dealer to them. But you should not be treated like the hero of the faction if you supply their enemy with tons of weapons.

"This is ridiculous"', shouted the Argon Representative and slammed hands into the table. The table didn't even shake. Whatever it is that thing was made of it was clearly designed to withstand a blast from a destroyer. At point blank range.

"You were hailed as our Hero! Why are you doing this? Why are you arming our enemies? We will revoke your privileges!"

The man at the table smiled. He was blond, approaching middle age, and his white suit with glowing nonsensical patterns on its back gave him goofy, harmless look. His faction logo was a kitten. He was, however the biggest arms dealer in the galaxy, with fleet that could rival terrans. Terrans! Except Terrans again didn't attend, again.

"But what is it going to achieve?", said the man, smiling in the most innocent way possible. "I already have the blueprints. All of the blueprints. From all of you. From every race in the galaxy."

Teladi exchanged glances. They insisted to have two representatives. Ministry of Finance and Teladi Company. But everybody knew it was a trick to have two votes instead of one.

"Including..." spoke the Teladi cautiously.

"Yes. For a price, as always", smiled the man. He picked cup, and sipped coffe from it, demonstrating kitten logo at the side and bototm. "We also build stations. With as many guns as you want", he nodded to the Split representatives. Those had to be sat at distance from each other. Because two of them were at war with each other.

"But what do you even do with this money! Your capital is estimated in trillions!" Countered Teladi.

The man smiled innocently. "Earn this much and find out, now, does anyone want a new fleet? For a price".

Silence lasted for a second. Then Zyarth representative shouted. "More Rattlesnakes!"

[Crimsonraziel]

You can do that, and be a 'neutral' arms dealer to them. But you should not be treated like the hero of the faction if you supply their enemy with tons of weapons.

That's up for the negotiation.
Want me to build ships and stations for you? Grant me access to the blueprints.
Want me to support your economy as well? Make compatable offers like other factions.
Sending patrols to secure my assets? That's an investment in your future assests.
Treat my like a hero? Better do, as I am a tiny narcissist with a big ego. You wouldn't want me to pick a side.

[LandogarX4]

You can do that, and be a 'neutral' arms dealer to them. But you should not be treated like the hero of the faction if you supply their enemy with tons of weapons.

That's up for the negotiation.
Want me to build ships and stations for you? Grant me access to the blueprints.
Want me to support your economy as well? Make compatable offers like other factions.
Sending patrols to secure my assets? That's an investment in your future assests.
Treat my like a hero? Better do, as I am a tiny narcissist with a big ego. You wouldn't want me to pick a side.

Problem is, this is not a narcissism simulator, it's a space sim, with (soon) somewhat realistic diplomacy. In the real world, weapons dealers and oligarchs who have pushed nation states too far end up in jail or fall off a balcony.

[Crimsonraziel]

Problem is, this is not a narcissism simulator, it's a space sim, with (soon) somewhat realistic diplomacy. In the real world, weapons dealers and oligarchs who have pushed nation states too far end up in jail or fall off a balcony.

It's also not real world sim. There is no problem except those you make up. No points for you. It's first and foremost a sandbox. Apart from that, feel free to limit yourself in your game and not impose your preferences on others.

[Raptor34]

You can do that, and be a 'neutral' arms dealer to them. But you should not be treated like the hero of the faction if you supply their enemy with tons of weapons.

That's up for the negotiation.
Want me to build ships and stations for you? Grant me access to the blueprints.
Want me to support your economy as well? Make compatable offers like other factions.
Sending patrols to secure my assets? That's an investment in your future assests.
Treat my like a hero? Better do, as I am a tiny narcissist with a big ego. You wouldn't want me to pick a side.

Problem is, this is not a narcissism simulator, it's a space sim, with (soon) somewhat realistic diplomacy. In the real world, weapons dealers and oligarchs who have pushed nation states too far end up in jail or fall off a balcony.

That's dumb because in the real world weapons dealers do not possess armies bigger than the top 3 biggest countries combined. Which you can do here btw, and yet you don't see people arguing against that. But no... you cannot be "friends" with everyone because it's not realistic. Yet somehow factions not immediately slapping you down when you own more than a couple destroyers and are shaping up to be a threat to their monopoly of force it's realistic apparently.
Frankly if you want realism it should be the other way around, be my friend or else I'm turning on the taps. Which is why it's somewhat surprising, though understandable for balance reasons I guess, that you do not gain rep for selling ships to a faction, through shipyards I mean, as in ships they use and not just recycle.

Which is why rather than having dynamic rep forced on everyone in a X game, where it has never been a part of the series, I'll rather see a form of joining a faction instead. But rather than restricting BPs, which just increases tedium because people would just grind out factions one by one, which frankly is degenerate gameplay imo, instead give soft benefits to joining a faction.
Like say currently we get one of a factions paintjob to use as a default when we reach high rep, but joining a faction would give you access to more, like those camo paintjobs you cannot otherwise get. Other things like increased FF forgiveness, more discounts when buying stuff, including discounts on BPs and of course increased sale prices. Some form of control of their military forces too. Like I've established myself as a trusted ally, which in this case means I officially according to the game code joined a faction and now I'm automatically enemies with all their enemies, so not RPing joining a faction, then I can say "order" them to attack a sector, or defend it or something. Useful if you want to help a faction expand somewhere instead of praying they build a defense station.
Basically give you tangible soft benefits towards actually joining a faction and getting stuck with dynamic rep. But don't lock any hard benefits like BPs or ships behind it.

[vvvvvvvv]

Problem is, this is not a narcissism simulator, it's a space sim, with (soon) somewhat realistic diplomacy. In the real world,

X4 has a strong power fantasy element. Simply put, the player is a Mary Sue. Genius pilot and marine, given HQ with platter with many abilities unavailable for normal people. Normal populace can't steal blueprints, can't teleport, terraform planets and certainly is not able to destroy Xenon in less than 30 days or so, starting from nothing. Also, dismantling a destroyer in a small ship is not a thing normal people do. They die when they attempt something like this.

There's nothing wrong power fantasies, and player being a Mary Sue is understandable, but comparing it to the real world wouldn't be right. With story being played straight the player would likely never been able to upgrade his starter ship.

Also, diplomacy hasn't been released so we don't know if it is realistic or not.

[jlehtone]

There's nothing wrong power fantasies, and player being a Mary Sue is understandable, but comparing it to the real world wouldn't be right. With story being played straight the player would likely never been able to upgrade his starter ship.

Also, diplomacy hasn't been released so we don't know if it is realistic or not.

Indeed.

[NightIntruder]

X4 has a strong power fantasy element.

That's well put. However, in discussions, I don't like being so pedantic that borderlines with nitpicking about somebody's words... We all know this SF game is definitively more fiction than science but personally I don't find it a flaw. To put it even broader, every single game that pretends to simulate things known from real life is a smoke and mirror, full of tricks, simplifications and trade-offs. Thus, if "comparing it to the real world wouldn't be right" than wondering whether diplomacy will be "realistic" or not is equal nonsense, right?

[alt3rn1ty]

I see that there are some would welcome a dynamic reputation slide mechanism, and I understand it would be inetresting for those that would not mind ..

.. however, please do give us a way out of it.

In X3FL we had to jump through some hoops to disable the damned thing ..

viewtopic.php?p=5093995#p5093995

[Raptor34]

I see that there are some would welcome a dynamic reputation slide mechanism, and I understand it would be inetresting for those that would not mind ..

.. however, please do give us a way out of it.

In X3FL we had to jump through some hoops to disable the damned thing ..

viewtopic.php?p=5093995#p5093995

That's why I'm making my voice heard and saying no to it.

[Targ Collective]

Diplomatic relations having a dynamic interplay would be realistic - allies like you more for helping their allies; enemies hate you for helping their enemies. The primary problem becomes one of blueprint starvation for enemy factions and either quarantining them in a sector of the Universe or outright destroying them.

So dynamic relations need to give you time to correct this, if it is a factor in play; incentivising missions to build bridges is a potential solution.

If dynamic reputation is used, and diminishes reputation, then it shouldn't choose to declare war for the player and should be correctable. Terraforming should also be a big boost for reputation with everyone, maybe even raising the lower bound for dynamic interplay.

Faction reaction brings satisfaction so long as it doesn't trap the player's action.

Faction reaction is dissatisfaction if it forces war with trade partner's foe-factions.

[Raptor34]

The problem with "realism" is that they rarely seem to take into account that when I'm your primary weapons supplier, you either be nice to me, or else.
Also again, it's never realistic that the factions would ever reach that stage anyway. And yet people never want to talk about that.