Trump - Criminal Prosecution

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clakclak
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by clakclak »

Falcrack wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 15:39
clakclak wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 14:49
Falcrack wrote: Thu, 30. May 24, 23:24 I wonder how many people will change their votes based on this guilty verdict? 3? 4?
Oh come on, I hate to see this discussion constantly drown in hyperbole and over the top statements.....we all know it is not going to be more than 2.
I know not many will change their votes if they had been planning to vote for Trump. But millions should. One of my own brothers included.

If Trump wins, we'll have a convicted felon as president whose chief goals will be to take revenge on those who opposed him, gut the justice system and replace it with those most loyal to him personally. Democracy in the US, and indeed around the world because of the influence of the US, will be in grave peril.

If Trump loses, his millions of deceived followers may very well resort to armed violence to try to overturn the results of the election. There is a 0.000% chance that Trump will accept an electoral loss and concede that his loss is legitimate, and many of his followers, who believe every lie he tells, will decide that their only option is to "stop the steal" through violent means.

Whatever happens, one thing is certain. We live in interesting times. Not since the civil war has the nation been this polarized. And I mean this without any hyperbole at all.

All of what you said here is true, however I feel like the people willing to participate in an actual armed revolt will be relatively small, should he loose. Their failure of a riot on Jan 6, no matter who threatening it was to Democracy, probably gave them a feeling that these actions do not accomplish anything. I’d assume most of them resolve to crying on Twitter.

That being said protests even those done with the best intentions can turn nasty at a moments notice. Personal I have taken part in and organized a lot of protests in the past and I can remember one protest in particular where a woman that was part of the protest and a political candidate for a party was attacked and beaten into the hospital by a member of a rival political party. There was tension before, but honestly that attack really came out of nowhere, nobody assumed that there would be more than a bit of shouting.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by matthewfarmery »

Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Panos »

matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 20:26 Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Golden_Gonads »

Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22 Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
Falsifying business records. They've been entirely open about that from the beginning.

For sentencing, personally I suspect Trump will get a token slap on the wrist custodial sentence of a few days to a couple of months and otherwise the maximum fine - Around $165,000.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by felter »

Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22 Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
I don't know where you are getting your news from, but I think they may be telling you lies or at the very least are omitting important facts, if I were you I would go elsewhere.

Several months back, Bragg got up in front of the world's press and announced that Trump was being charged with falsifying Business records which is a crime, the reason being when someone falsifies their records it is to cover up another crime for example a drug dealer may say he made 60 grand from repairing cars when he actually made the cash from selling drugs, reason he would not say I made the cash from selling cocaine now are they, but you may not be able to prove he was selling cocaine, but you can show he never made it from repairing cars, crime committed.

In Trumps case he did it for two reasons 1 tax evasion and 2 election interference that makes 3 crimes committed and Bragg was quite open about this at the time he even said it had nothing to do with paying of a porn star for having sex with you while your wife was at home looking after your newly born baby son as that in itself is not a crime pretty immoral but not a crime, and Bragg emphasised that.

Now there is also a thing called a charge sheet that actually shows you what the crimes are and how they were at the time alleged to have happened there were 34 counts of those 3 crimes being committed and that was what he was on trial for that is what he was charged with and that was what a jury of his peers 12 people in total found him guilty of unanimously all 12 of them found him Guilty on all 34 counts.

At no time has any of this information been hidden from you, me, Trump his lawyers the press or anyone else in the world it was all there for us all to see it had been mentioned on numerous occasions in countless news story in all countries, and somehow you managed to miss it, and think there were no charges at all.

By the way to show you how bad the election interference was, there were 3 swing states that Trump won, but he did so by a measly 80,000 votes if that story came out that he had sex wife a porn star while his wife was at home nursing a newborn baby and not just that but at the same time he was also having an affair so it wasn't just his wife he was cheating on but also his mistress and then top it all off he also made another payment to hide that he has an illegitimate child to another woman while being married. If all of these facts had come out he probably would have lost all 3 of those swing states at the very least, so he would not have won the 2016 election.

All of this is out there in the open and if you actually didn't know any of it, you have a problem, go elsewhere for your news and stay away from social media for a bit.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Vertigo 7 »

Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22
matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 20:26 Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
lol seriously? Is this the first time you've ever heard of a trial? You do realize that an indictment requires specific allegations of violation of specific federal and/or state laws, right? People in the US aren't put on trial just cuz someone said they did something wrong. Go look at the court docket yourself, it's all in black and white.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by fiksal »

Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22 Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
I think one thing left to clarify, in US Justice system you have to be accused to be in a trial. One has to be accused to be then found guilty of that thing. Otherwise court room remains empty.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Chips »

Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22
matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 20:26 Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
The way courts work is you are accused of a crime and then evidence / arguments to support the prosecution and defence occurs, and a verdict is given based upon who was more believable.
So in this, the jury (which Trump's team got to vet before hand, don't forget) determined he *was* guilty of that which is he accused.

Oh, and the crime was falsifying business records.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifyin ... ss_records

or an explanation of why it's a Crime wrt New York:
https://thehill.com/business/3934284-wh ... ndictment/

Does that help?
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by esd »

While it would be funny to put Trump in prison, I fear he'd go to one of the nice, low security, jobs. Nor do I think a fine would really punish him.

Community service where he has no choice but to get dirty. Litter picking. Manning the kitchens at a shelter. Such working-class fare would cut to the bone of his ego.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by chew-ie »

esd wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 16:54 While it would be funny to put Trump in prison, I fear he'd go to one of the nice, low security, jobs. Nor do I think a fine would really punish him.

Community service where he has no choice but to get dirty. Litter picking. Manning the kitchens at a shelter. Such working-class fare would cut to the bone of his ego.
..or working at migration camps near the mexican border. Even if he isn't re-elected this could be a valuable experience - talking to the people there and see their side. Maybe even understand them better in the process. And if the worst-case happens, he gets a chance to understand that building a high wall won't make the underlying problems away.

In fact, rotary social work should be mandatory for politicians. **** up 10 months, see the result first-hand for 1 month, have 1 month for holidays. :)
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Panos »

Golden_Gonads wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:43
Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22 Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
Falsifying business records. They've been entirely open about that from the beginning.

For sentencing, personally I suspect Trump will get a token slap on the wrist custodial sentence of a few days to a couple of months and otherwise the maximum fine - Around $165,000.
That is not a felony. Is a slap on the wrist at best. And in the trial it was proven that Coen was lying. And not for the first time. For this case is been disbarred and found guilty.
Also Trump didn't do anything personally nor gave the order to do so. Everything was handled by accountants and lawyers.

In addition the DOJ didn't find any account irregularities with the 2016 election fund, which this is all about. And if they had found is a Federal case, not a State one.
May I also remind you both Hilary and Obama, found guilty for laundering tens of millions from their election funds straight to their pockets, by their order and knowledge, and both got petty fines.

Do you remember the last trial in NY? Have you forgotten the DA saying to the bank that Trump stole them money and they are victims (the bank), while the bank effectively called the DA crazy, because the loan was paid and they (the Banks) made big profits from the Trump portfolio? Yet the DA claimed that they were victims and Trump found guilty for fraud against the banks, even if the banks said that wasn't the case?

Why you support what is clearly a witch hunt? Don't you understand that tomorrow might be you?
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Panos »

felter wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 14:09
Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22 Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.

Several months back, Bragg got up in front of the world's press and announced that Trump was being charged with falsifying Business records which is a crime, the reason being when someone falsifies their records it is to cover up another crime for example a drug dealer may say he made 60 grand from repairing cars when he actually made the cash from selling drugs, reason he would not say I made the cash from selling cocaine now are they, but you may not be able to prove he was selling cocaine, but you can show he never made it from repairing cars, crime committed.
What was the underlying crime then? Whole court case ended and Bragg hasn't said what was the underlying crime.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Panos »

Vertigo 7 wrote: Sun, 2. Jun 24, 19:32
Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22
matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 20:26 Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
lol seriously? Is this the first time you've ever heard of a trial? You do realize that an indictment requires specific allegations of violation of specific federal and/or state laws, right? People in the US aren't put on trial just cuz someone said they did something wrong. Go look at the court docket yourself, it's all in black and white.
I have followed the trial closely, the problem is if there were any irregularities with the election fund (which is this all about), the DOJ found NOTHING. Is a federal crime after all and the states do not have juristiction.

In addition may I remind you both Obama and Hillary pocketed tens of millions, found guilty and received petty fines? Why they weren't put to prison? At least their cases were pretty clear. THEY PUT THE MONEY IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS. And paid NO tax.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Panos »

Chips wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 14:00
Panos wrote: Sat, 1. Jun 24, 10:22
matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 31. May 24, 20:26 Trump has said, he would have loved to testify in his trial :lol: :lol: I call that BS, he was probably way too scared and his lawyers were probably telling him it would have been a bad idea. Plus been totally demolished under cross. and while I not watched it, his 30 min press conference in front of Trump tower was him being a total blabbering idiot. So he totally losing it and will continue to lose it. Plus Trump has confirmed that they are planning on appealing the verdict, I call fact chance in hell of it being overturned.
Tell me what was the crime Trump committed for this trial to take place.
May I remind you that the DA even to this day hasn't said what was the actual crime.
The way courts work is you are accused of a crime and then evidence / arguments to support the prosecution and defence occurs, and a verdict is given based upon who was more believable.
So in this, the jury (which Trump's team got to vet before hand, don't forget) determined he *was* guilty of that which is he accused.

Oh, and the crime was falsifying business records.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifyin ... ss_records

or an explanation of why it's a Crime wrt New York:
https://thehill.com/business/3934284-wh ... ndictment/

Does that help?
First of all it was proven at the court that Coen was lying. Nobody can track the payments either way. And Coen for the same case is been found guilty for lying and was disbarred.

So tell me what was the underlying crime, because if any payments made, which they didn't nor proven at the court by the prosecution they weren't made by Trump himself but by accountants and lawyers.


May I remind you the other court case couple of months ago? Do you remember the travesty having the DA saying to the banks that they were defrauded by Trump and were victims, and the banks saying that they made hundreds of millions from the Trump portfolio and the DA is crazy? Yet Trump was found guilty for defrauding the banks even if the banks themselves are stating that wasn't the case and want to do more business with Trump.

Don't you get you are supporting a witch hunt? How the heck do you believe the MSM propaganda and not what actually was been said in the court room?

Don't you understand you are all victims of 5th gen warfare? Do you believe those who lying to you for 20 years, even the last 4 with CV19, will say the truth now?

I don't ask you believe me, I am nor a preacher. I ask you to find what actually happened inside the court, not the media propaganda.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by jlehtone »

Panos wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 21:00 Also Trump didn't do anything personally nor gave the order to do so. Everything was handled by accountants and lawyers.
Crime lords almost never do something personally. Besides, the jury must have concluded that he did enough to be guilty.

Witch hunts are reserved for witches. Is Trump a witch?
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Chips »

Panos wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 21:10 First of all it was proven at the court that Coen was lying. Nobody can track the payments either way. And Coen for the same case is been found guilty for lying and was disbarred.
And that was tested rigorously by the defence team. Are you saying the defence team was incompetent? Or are you saying the Jury, vetted by Trump's defence team, were absolutely incapable of weighing up the arguments in the case?
May I remind you the other court case couple of months ago? Do you remember the travesty having the DA saying to the banks that they were defrauded by Trump and were victims, and the banks saying that they made hundreds of millions from the Trump portfolio and the DA is crazy? Yet Trump was found guilty for defrauding the banks even if the banks themselves are stating that wasn't the case and want to do more business with Trump.
Has no bearing on the case in question, does it? What relation does that have on the case that was tried? Please advise what this has to do with anything.
Don't you get you are supporting a witch hunt? How the heck do you believe the MSM propaganda and not what actually was been said in the court room?
You realise in the court room two sides present their case and it's ruled upon as to which has proven the case... and in this case, Trump has been proven Guilty based on the evidence both sides presented, by a jury of his peers.
It's not that I'm supporting a witch hunt, it's that you seem to believe there's a conspiracy in the justice system of the United States. *Just* for Donald Trump.
Panos wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 21:10 Don't you understand you are all victims of 5th gen warfare? Do you believe those who lying to you for 20 years, even the last 4 with CV19, will say the truth now?

I don't ask you believe me, I am nor a preacher. I ask you to find what actually happened inside the court, not the media propaganda.
I don't have a remote clue what you're talking about with "5th gen warfare", you'll have to clarify that for us. We're not all up-to-date with conspiracy speak.
That you think there's some weird conspiracy that the entire world has fallen for, and only Trump and his supporters know the actual truth, despite being incapable of arguing that in a court of law, is pretty... odd.

You've not actually presented any coherent argument as to why Trump isn't guilty as per the court case. There's some circumstantial rambling implying the jury can't discern this, there's some utterly unrelated rambling, implying logic isn't applicable, and then there's some conspiracy, implying the entire world is being hood winked when the entire case, and arguments, have been documented, reported upon and publicised. It'd be incredible to believe there's a miscarriage in these circumstances.

No, I don't believe you. Don't worry.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by felter »

What's the point, as it looks like you're just not interested in the facts and truth. It's all there for you to see you just have to look for yourself, don't listen to what anyone else is saying to you, do your own research, look at the trial documents make up your own mind. I can tell you what the charges were again, Falsifying Business documents a misdemeanour unless done to cover up another crime, in this case election interference and tax avoidance making it a Felony E charge. But don't take anyone's word for it including mines, look it up yourself, the trial documents are all online for the world to see, with all the charges, facts and evidence.
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by fiksal »

@Panos

the conspiracy angle doesn't help your message if you want to get across something

this isn't the thread for them

it looks like you don't think what is a crime is a crime, I am not sure we can help you there.

so it'd shorten the chat, if you would be direct and say what Trump did isn't a crime regardless of what courts say.

There, I just saved everyone a lot of time. You are welcome

...


as for witch hunts I am more worried of Trump supporters coming after my friends and family than courts after me for falsifying business records, while running for president and paying off an affair

so yes, good joke
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by Falcrack »

Panos wrote: Mon, 3. Jun 24, 21:03In addition may I remind you both Obama and Hillary pocketed tens of millions, found guilty and received petty fines? Why they weren't put to prison? At least their cases were pretty clear. THEY PUT THE MONEY IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS. And paid NO tax.
That sounds pretty serious. Can you cite any evidence or sources for this? When and where exactly were they found guilty of all this?
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Re: Trump - Criminal Prosecution

Post by matthewfarmery »

You have your facts wrong Panos, Hillary was never found guilty of that. Even though the GOP did a few investigations, she wasn't charged with any crime. or found guilty of one.

If you want to back that up, you should post your evidence in another thread.
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